Wild Yeast Capture Attempt 1

[theonetrueruss]

my guess is that pellicle is not yeast based... but wtf do I know? not sure best route here as I am just learning about wild yeast myself... interested to know where the pellicle stuff goes though.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

my guess is that pellicle is not yeast based... but wtf do I know? not sure best route here as I am just learning about wild yeast myself... interested to know where the pellicle stuff goes though.

Maybe it's not yeast. But there's yeast in there. I saw it fermenting in a classical way for yeast for the first day, bubbles rising, krauesen, etc. Second morning, it looked like a krauesen covered with white powder. Lots of large bubble shapes covered in powder. It looked a lot like some pictures if you run a Google images search for "brettanomyces fermentation:

brettanomyces fermentation

A bit after that, it looked like this picture below. This is once the bubbling had settled down a bit. Still powdery, but only small bubbles.

After that, it looked like the first picture I posted before. Then after that, it developed a "ropy" look on the surface. Same powdery look, but then it had some ropy looking tendrils spider webbing the surface. From reading Wild Brews, on page 114, sounds like it could possibly be pedio.

"Pedioccocus produces a layer on top of the wort resembling long elastic threads best described as ropy and a hazy viscosity, a bit like oil."

It seems to me to be a mixed culture. I don't think it's pure or anything. But from the pics I've seen of Brett fermentations, it looked like that at certain points. Only used Brett once myself and used it in primary and it didn't even get a pellicle.

Anyway, I intend to decant this and make a fresh starter, so was wondering if anyone knows what the pellicle is composed of, even if it's a mixed culture. Not precisely what it is, if its mixed, but if it's composed of stuff I want to keep or stuff I want to toss or it doesn't matter. At the moment, I intend to chill for 3-4 days, pour off everything except what's settled, pellicle included and pitch into a fresh starter.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Pellicles form in the presence of oxygen as a layer of protection. It basically blocks O2 from getting to the beer and therefore prevents oxidation. That is why you didn't get a pellicle when you used Brett for primary fermentation-it was an oxygen free environment. You can rack the beer from underneath the pellicle and if you wash the yeast the particles of the pellicle will likely float to the top and you can pour them off. Or you can pour/ scoop the pellicle off first. Won't hurt anything though.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Pellicles form in the presence of oxygen as a layer of protection. It basically blocks O2 from getting to the beer and therefore prevents oxidation. That is why you didn't get a pellicle when you used Brett for primary fermentation-it was an oxygen free environment. You can rack the beer from underneath the pellicle and if you wash the yeast the particles of the pellicle will likely float to the top and you can pour them off. Or you can pour/ scoop the pellicle off first. Won't hurt anything though.

Thanks!

 

[reed1911]

So, we boiled up 1/2oz of old hallertau and 1lb of xlight pilsner DME (1 gal batch), cooled and pitched 1/2L of the wild capture, this morning she was just about to the airlock and going like mad. Great hefe smells coming off of it. Flocculation was terrible even after being crashed for 3 days in the fridge. Leaning away from planning a Belgium around this now, we'll see what this gallon does first.

 

[winvarin]

Reed:
You're in south OKC and if memory serves, you also plate yeast, right? If that's the case, I have a proposition for you.

I have neither the skill, the patience, nor the desire to go any deeper into yeast harvesting than growing up the dregs from a bottle.

That being said, another homebrewer I work with got a couple of fresh cans of Heady Topper in a beer trade recently. We decanted all but 100ml each from 2 cans into our glasses Saturday. The beer was beyond wonderful.

I had 2 sanitized flasks waiting with 150ml of aerated starter wort. I have been slowy stepping this up since the weekend (finally went to 1L for each start tonight). By the look and smell of things, I think I've caught a clean start of Conan in each flask. With the schedule I ran through yeastcalc.com, I am estimating that I'll have 600-800 billion cells to wash out of the starters and split with my brew buddy once I am done (hopefully by next weekend).

If you plate and keep a yeast bank, would you be interested in taking a portion of our finished product to plate and store, in exchange for us being able to "come back to the well" as it were from time to time when we'd like to grow up another clean Conan culture?

If this works, I have three 750 ml bottles of Cantillon Gueuze that I hand carried back from the brewery in Brussels last summer. I have been putting off opening them until I got serious about trying to culture from commericial bottles.

 

[theonetrueruss]

So now I have 3 slants with some yeast growing on them. Tonight I plan to use some of each to start growing and propagating into a large enough pitch for a gallon. I am figuring I'll be ready for that by next weekend...

The growths on each vial look a little different. To me that is a clear sign there are three different organisms I am dealing with. (assuming they are pure.. which visually they appear to be. since they each came from a single colony I am assuming that is correct) The 1G batches should determine the best one to use for a full batch and weed out any of the samples that are not really yeast... just in case I picked a colony that doesn't ferment. Excited. This is taking me a long time to complete but I am absolutely thrilled with the current progress.

 

[zoomzilla]

This is truly fascinating, thanks for putting so much work and for sharing with us. I've always been interested in how ancient cultures made alcoholic beverages without modern devices or methods. I'm interested in what the alcohol content of the finished product will be. keep up the good work. Cheers

 

[theonetrueruss]

right now I am still in the process of stepping up from the isolated colonies. I have 3 starters going and expect to be able to start up the three 1G test batches next week... possibly on memorial day. Planing to let ferment for three weeks, then crash and force carb in coke bottles to be able to taste. Will update again when the test batches are running with details. Of course the big test will be when they are finally ready to taste. Hoping to be able to have my local brew club taste them and give feedback. Still excited. Once that is done... if one of the is good... time to make some wild yeast ale. Recipe to be determined based on yeast flavor profile.

So far this has taken a lot longer than I anticipated but overall been easier. (except for being patient)

 

[MattHollingsworth]

My update:

The pics I put in this thread before indeed seem to have NOT been yeast. Maybe pedio, I don't know. I'm still letting it run along. I pulled it and decanted, but the mix had so much juice in it (I used juice in the mix to drop the pH) that I can't tell if it's sour on its own. But it had malty sweetness in there, so wasn't fermented by yeast anyway. Smells interesting but not so much like beer. Not unpleasant though.

The other test is far, far more successful. That one has been coaxed along for some time. It was decanted about 10 days ago and then a normal starter was made on a stirplate and stepped up twice, ending with a 1300 ml starter. Chilled it earlier and just sampled it and it tastes awesome. It tastes not so far off from a Wit yeast. Phenols in the lead with a complex fruity character, especially in the nose. Very dry finish with a very slight tart edge to it. Could result in a sour beer, time will tell. I'll make a small beer after my main brew this weekend and use that for this wild beer. So far so good. The starter smelled amazing the whole time except for a few days ago when it threw some sulfur for about 24 hours. Stopped doing that, though and I don't pick any up in the starter I drank. Interestingly, I also usually get some sulfur from Wit yeast when I use it.

Best of luck with yours, theonetrueruss.

 

[theonetrueruss]

update:

All three of my 1 gallon test batches are fermenting nicely.. I made a 1.044OG wort with some Hallertau at 60 mins Thursday night and pitched at a little over 70F. They are being stored at 65 to 68F right now.

They were starting to form krausen yesterday but this morning they are going nicely.

pictures to come later today. In a few weeks I should be able to crash them, force some carbonation and do some tasting. Excited!

 

[Brulosopher]

update:

All three of my 1 gallon test batches are fermenting nicely.. I made a 1.044OG wort with some Hallertau at 60 mins Thursday night and pitched at a little over 70F. They are being stored at 65 to 68F right now.

They were starting to form krausen yesterday but this morning they are going nicely.

pictures to come later today. In a few weeks I should be able to crash them, force some carbonation and do some tasting. Excited!

I'm stoked for this.

 

[theonetrueruss]

well.. after a month of being in the 1G fermentors I had very little attenuation... like <5%. Definitely not yeast that is good for beer making. Will make attempt #2 next year and each year after that until I catch something worthwile.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

well.. after a month of being in the 1G fermentors I had very little attenuation... like <5%. Definitely not yeast that is good for beer making. Will make attempt #2 next year and each year after that until I catch something worthwile.

Sorry to hear it. Don't give up! Mine did 83% and 87.5% on the two beers I made with it so far. Tastes great as well, though a pretty bitter finish for so low of ibus.

It's worth giving it another go!

 

[theonetrueruss]

I'll never give up.. just going to have to try again. Waiting till spring next year. I'm hoping to have a microscope by then.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

You don't necessarily have to wait until spring. You can take the yeast straight from some fruit without having to leave the wort open to the air. Not sure yet if this will result in good yeast or not. I just tried it with cherries from our back yard. I did my usual technique; starter with 50% grapefruit juice. Poured this into six jars and dropped a cherry into each. 5 of them look foul. 1 of them, however, formed a nice krauesen and looked like a normal fermentation. It's still early on, but I'll see what this results in.

Anyway, point being, even if it's warm, you can try again using fruit to innoculate. I can't say if it will give good results or not this early on, however.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Any updates? Tried collection any more?

My cherry experiment is going well. Stepped one of them up a few times and the resulting starter tastes quite nice.

 

[theonetrueruss]

Planning to make a new attempt soon. The weather is starting to get right again.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Planning to make a new attempt soon. The weather is starting to get right again.

Cool. Let us know how it goes.