Why won't my PID turn on?

[eulipion2]

I'm finally getting back to brewing after nearly six years, so I'm putting everything back together. I plugged in the control panel, pushed all the buttons (the pump works!), but the PID will not turn on. I opened the box and checked all the connections, and they're all secure, no apparent shorts, all the fuses are fine. I did notice a low hum from the circled part (second picture) when I turned on the heating element, but it goes away when I turn off the heating element.

How can I figure out why the PID isn't turning on? Or should I just replace all the essential bits and call it a day? It's been so long since I built this that I don't even remember what all the parts are called or where I bought them!

 

[eulipion2]

Auber! Of course! And there's an updated PID with wifi connectivity! While my original question still stands, ooooo wifi...

 

[whoaru99]

Were it me I'd be checking mains power at the PID with my trusty multimeter. If there is mains power as expected then the PID is likely bad.

If there is not the 120V or whatever is supposed to power the PID then you start backtracking to find the source of the disconnect, per se.

 

[ClaudiusB]

I'm finally getting back to brewing after nearly six years, so I'm putting everything back together. I plugged in the control panel, pushed all the buttons (the pump works!), but the PID will not turn on. I opened the box and checked all the connections, and they're all secure, no apparent shorts, all the fuses are fine. I did notice a low hum from the circled part (second picture) when I turned on the heating element, but it goes away when I turn off the heating element.

How can I figure out why the PID isn't turning on? Or should I just replace all the essential bits and call it a day? It's been so long since I built this that I don't even remember what all the parts are called or where I bought them!
View attachment 879178View attachment 879180

"I did notice a low hum from the circled part (second picture) when I turned on the heating element" You are hearing the coil humming at 60 Hz, normal.

 

[ClaudiusB]

I'm finally getting back to brewing after nearly six years, so I'm putting everything back together. I plugged in the control panel, pushed all the buttons (the pump works!), but the PID will not turn on. I opened the box and checked all the connections, and they're all secure, no apparent shorts, all the fuses are fine. I did notice a low hum from the circled part (second picture) when I turned on the heating element, but it goes away when I turn off the heating element.

How can I figure out why the PID isn't turning on? Or should I just replace all the essential bits and call it a day? It's been so long since I built this that I don't even remember what all the parts are called or where I bought them!
View attachment 879178View attachment 879180

Is the ER button used to trigger an external GFI? In your ER button circuit I can see hidden resistors in the red wire.

 

[eulipion2]

Is the ER button used to trigger an external GFI? In your ER button circuit I can see hidden resistors in the red wire.

The E-stop? Yeah, it trips the spa panel breaker at the wall.

I used this thing for several years without issue, and even fired it up once I had the 240 service installed at my new house, and everything turned on as it should at that time. The box has sat in the basement untouched for probably around 4 years. Now the PID, and as a result, the heating element, don't work. My guess is the PID is dead for some reason, but is it possible for the contactor or SSR to go bad? As you pointed out, the hum I hear is normal, so probably not the contactor?

I need to poke around with a multimeter, but I'm not very experienced with such things. I cobbled this thing together based on a couple different tutorials and designs from other HBT users, modifying their designs for my own needs. If they said I needed resistors, or fuses, or whatever, I put them in. The system worked flawlessly for about four years before we moved. Basically, it's a miracle I didn't electrocute myself or burn down the house all those years ago, and it'll be a miracle if that streak continues.

 

[ClaudiusB]

The E-stop? Yeah, it trips the spa panel breaker at the wall.

I used this thing for several years without issue, and even fired it up once I had the 240 service installed at my new house, and everything turned on as it should at that time. The box has sat in the basement untouched for probably around 4 years. Now the PID, and as a result, the heating element, don't work. My guess is the PID is dead for some reason, but is it possible for the contactor or SSR to go bad? As you pointed out, the hum I hear is normal, so probably not the contactor?

I need to poke around with a multimeter, but I'm not very experienced with such things. I cobbled this thing together based on a couple different tutorials and designs from other HBT users, modifying their designs for my own needs. If they said I needed resistors, or fuses, or whatever, I put them in. The system worked flawlessly for about four years before we moved. Basically, it's a miracle I didn't electrocute myself or burn down the house all those years ago, and it'll be a miracle if that streak continues.

Any part can fail.
Does the heat button light turn on? Edit: I found the answer.
"I need to poke around with a multimeter, but I'm not very experienced with such things."
Take a jumper wire from from the PID bottom black wire to the top black PID button wire. Does the PID turn on when the button is pushed?

 

[eulipion2]

Yes, it just doesn't show well in the picture.

 

[ClaudiusB]

Yes, it just doesn't show well in the picture.

Please read my post again.

 

[eulipion2]

Any part can fail.
Does the heat button light turn on? Edit: I found the answer.
"I need to poke around with a multimeter, but I'm not very experienced with such things."
Take a jumper wire from from the PID bottom black wire to the top black PID button wire. Does the PID turn on when the button is pushed?

Please read my post again.

D'oh. Missed that second part. I'll try that and get back to you sometime this weekend.

 

[ClaudiusB]

If the jumper wire doesn't work, lets remove the PID's inside without removing any wires to look for corrotion.
Use my pics in the same order.
We don't have to worry about the white wire, all lamps are working.

Note: I am assuming your PID's hardware works like 95% of PIDs on the market.

Look for two cutouts on the front of the bezel.
Insert a screwdriver to popout the internals.
Pull the PID out.
Clean all the PCB contacts or clean only the two power.
Clean the contacts inside the housing too.
Put back together and test.
A blown fuse requires you to use a meter. The fuse may not look like a common glass fuse, more like a small resistor called a pico fuse.

Should you decide on buying the same model as a replacement, just pull the insides from the new one out and insert into the old housing.
Good luck!

 

[Bobby_M]

The first obvious place to check is to put a volt meter on the 120v/240v screw terminals connected to the PID module itself. Either you have voltage there or not. If not, see if you have an inline fuse that feeds that connection.

 

[ClaudiusB]

The first obvious place to check is to put a volt meter on the 120v/240v screw terminals connected to the PID module itself. Either you have voltage there or not. If not, see if you have an inline fuse that feeds that connection.

It can't be a fuse the lamp turns on, connected to the same feed.
"I need to poke around with a multimeter, but I'm not very experienced with such things." his reply from the top when testing with a meter was recommended.

 

[Climb]

After you verify with a voltmeter that there is voltage on the power terminals of the PID; I would expect some part of the display is on at this point.

If voltage is good and there is nothing on the display, my guess is that there is a problem/failure with the internal AC to DC voltage regulator circuitry.

If both the voltage and display are ok, then it would be a good idea to verify that the PID is getting the proper signal from the temperature sensor. This gets a bit more complicated and depends on the type of temperature sensor being used.

 

[sbro]

You might consider removing the 2 ssr wires (2 top right white wires, one with black tape and the white one next to it) from the PID to see if the output is causing the problem.

 

[eulipion2]

@ClaudiusB So, all the terminals look clean. Question about the jumper wire though. If I'm understanding correctly there's already a wire between the two points you want me to put the jumper.

Did you mean bottom black PID to bottom black button wire where power comes into the switch? I assume that would bypass the switch and supply power to the PID as soon as it was plugged in.

@Climb it used to be that if I turned it on without the temp probe attached the display would show an error, not stay dark.

@sbro those wires didn't change anything.

 

[ClaudiusB]

@ClaudiusB So, all the terminals look clean. Question about the jumper wire though. If I'm understanding correctly there's already a wire between the two points you want me to put the jumper.

Did you mean bottom black PID to bottom black button wire where power comes into the switch? I assume that would bypass the switch and supply power to the PID as soon as it was plugged in.

View attachment 879421

@Climb it used to be that if I turned it on without the temp probe attached the display would show an error, not stay dark.

@sbro those wires didn't change anything.

You are on the wrong side of the terminals; not the screw side, but the sliding inside contacts, as pictured above.
The easy way to measure the voltage between the black and white is with a meter. Without the meter, connect the jumper from terminal #14 to the PID's lower black wire to bypass the installed black wire. This verifies the conditions of the connections, the button's lamp must be on.

 

[eulipion2]

You are on the wrong side of the terminals; not the screw side, but the sliding inside contacts, as pictured above.
The easy way to measure the voltage between the black and white is with a meter. Without the meter, connect the jumper from terminal #14 to the PID's lower black wire to bypass the installed black wire. This verifies the conditions of the connections, the button's lamp must be on.

That's what I meant. I pulled out the core of the PID and the internals were clean. Is this what you mean for the jumper? The yellow store is attached to terminal 14. The PID still doesn't turn on.

 

[eulipion2]

I'm just guessing after fiddling around, but is this anything resembling useful?

 

[whoaru99]

I'm just guessing after fiddling around, but is this anything resembling useful?
View attachment 879425

Not with your meter set to DC, for what I'm presuming would be/typically is AC power supply.

Turn the dial to the 600 position by the V~ (Volts AC) symbol.

 

[eulipion2]

Not with your meter set to DC, for what I'm presuming would be/typically is AC power supply.

Turn the dial to the 600 position by the V~ (Volts AC) symbol.

Ah! Bounces between 121-122.

 

[whoaru99]

What is the specific model number of the Auber PID?

SYL-????

Not sure it necessarily matters since I think many are the same/similar connections.

If it's a 2342 or 2352 type, and you have power on those two terminals then I suggest the PID has gone belly up.

 

[eulipion2]

2352

 

[whoaru99]

My 2 cents remains the PID has kicked the bucket.

 

[sibelman]

the PID has gone belly up.

'fraid so. Power to the unit but no display.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sure, but then I would heed the advice given in post #11. Just because there is power on the terminals doesn't mean it's getting to the module inside because there are pressure fit connections inside the case and they could be a little corroded.

If you want to just skip ahead, I'd recommend the Auber DSPR-120.

 

[eulipion2]

Fortunately that was my first guess so I preemptively ordered a replacement. If I got the old one working I'd have a backup. Hopefully it ships soon.

 

[whoaru99]

Sure, but then I would heed the advice given in post #11. Just because there is power on the terminals doesn't mean it's getting to the module inside because there are pressure fit connections inside the case and they could be a little corroded.

I thought I read that was checked.

 

[ClaudiusB]

That's what I meant. I pulled out the core of the PID and the internals were clean. Is this what you mean for the jumper? The yellow store is attached to terminal 14. The PID still doesn't turn on.

View attachment 879424

Did you take any pictures showing the inside's power connections on the board and housing? Did you try to identify any fuses on the power section of the board?
I was not clear enough with the jumper wire. I didn't mean a permanent connection, a great job on your part.

 

[eulipion2]

Did you take any pictures showing the inside's power connections on the board and housing? Did you try to identify any fuses on the power section of the board?
I was not clear enough with the jumper wire. I didn't mean a permanent connection, a great job on your part.

I only looked at it and made sure there was no corrosion and popped it back in. I can take some photos if you'd like, but my Auber order shipped and will (hopefully) be here Wednesday. Should I just A.) pop the internals of the PID out and pop the new one in, or B.) replace the whole thing, housing and all? Or if A doesn't work continue to B?

Thanks to everyone for all the help. If the new PID doesn't work I'm sure I'll be back begging for help!

 

[whoaru99]

Should I just A.) pop the internals of the PID out and pop the new one in, or B.) replace the whole thing, housing and all?

B for sure because if you open the new one and for some reason something happens, Auber probably won't stand behind it if they can detect you opened it.

 

[eulipion2]

B for sure because if you open the new one and for some reason something happens, Auber probably won't stand behind it if they can detect you opened it.

Oh yeah, hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

 

[ClaudiusB]

I only looked at it and made sure there was no corrosion and popped it back in. I can take some photos if you'd like, but my Auber order shipped and will (hopefully) be here Wednesday. Should I just A.) pop the internals of the PID out and pop the new one in, or B.) replace the whole thing, housing and all? Or if A doesn't work continue to B?

Thanks to everyone for all the help. If the new PID doesn't work I'm sure I'll be back begging for help!

As long as there is no warranty seal to break, do it. From the Industrial world I come from, the person on the plant floor doesn't have time or a drawing to remove the wires.
Connect the new PID to 120, push a few buttons, if it all looks ok, pull the inside.
Good luck

 

[doug293cz]

I only looked at it and made sure there was no corrosion and popped it back in. I can take some photos if you'd like, but my Auber order shipped and will (hopefully) be here Wednesday. Should I just A.) pop the internals of the PID out and pop the new one in, or B.) replace the whole thing, housing and all? Or if A doesn't work continue to B?

Thanks to everyone for all the help. If the new PID doesn't work I'm sure I'll be back begging for help!

Is the new PID also an SYL-2352? If not then you would need to make sure the terminal assignments for the new unit are the sames as for the old unit before going with option "A".

Brew on

 

[whoaru99]

Couple things...

Clearly I can't speak for Auber but I do work at a large OEM and can advise tamper indicators/tell tales are not aways obvious, sometimes for a reason. OTOH, the stuff I deal with is typically orders of magnitude more expensive.

Secondly, this isn't a line down, every minute costs us big $$$$$ to even really consider that approach. Not to mention, like doug alludes to, if they're even interchangeable at all.

 

[eulipion2]

Well, looks like it was a bad PID. And now I have wifi!