Why transfer to carboy after one week?

[SkipMorrow]

First post here.

I just got a home brew kit for my birthday. I made a batch of Octoberfest. The recipe called for it to ferment in a bucket for one week and then transfer it to a carboy for a second week. I was just wondering what the purpose of this transfer is. Why not have it in the carboy for the first week? What would be different if I just kept it in the bucket? The recipe even says "transfer it to the carboy after one week, if you have one. If you don't have one, just keep it in the bucket." It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[soccerdad]

I wouldn't

 

[ThunderpantsBrewing]

Brew kits are behind the times, man. I'm going to guess that your carboy is only 5 gallons, and if you're making a 5 gallon batch, you're going to want some extra space in your fermentation vessel. So the bucket is most likely 6.5 gallons, and that will provide some head space for the yeast to do their thing. The old fashioned way of doing things was to transfer to a secondary, which would be your carboy, because in massive brewing systems, as the yeast falls out of suspension, the weight of the beer would crush and kill the yeast, and that could create strange flavorings in the beer. On our small systems, the secondary fermenter is pretty much obsolete, so you can keep it in the bucket. I would recommend a month, actually, but if you can't wait 2-3 weeks should suffice. The reason for the extra time is because the yeast release different flavor compounds as they ferment the beer, and some of those aren't desirable, so a little extra time will help to ensure they clean up those off-flavors. Welcome to the forum, and the world of wort-making!

 

[Wolfbayte]

Brew kits are behind the times, man. I'm going to guess that your carboy is only 5 gallons, and if you're making a 5 gallon batch, you're going to want some extra space in your fermentation vessel. So the bucket is most likely 6.5 gallons, and that will provide some head space for the yeast to do their thing. The old fashioned way of doing things was to transfer to a secondary, which would be your carboy, because in massive brewing systems, as the yeast falls out of suspension, the weight of the beer would crush and kill the yeast, and that could create strange flavorings in the beer. On our small systems, the secondary fermenter is pretty much obsolete, so you can keep it in the bucket. I would recommend a month, actually, but if you can't wait 2-3 weeks should suffice. The reason for the extra time is because the yeast release different flavor compounds as they ferment the beer, and some of those aren't desirable, so a little extra time will help to ensure they clean up those off-flavors. Welcome to the forum, and the world of wort-making!

+1 to both comments. Welcome to HBT. Ferment in the bucket, leave it 3-4 weeks in the proper temperature. 5 gallon carboy doesn't have enough headspace for primary fermentation.

The secondary serves numerous purposes:

1. To sell you a secondary
2. To increase the risk of infecting and oxidizing the beer
3. To free up the primary so you can brew another beer

Revvy has a great thread for bottling you should read in the meantime.
There are also great threads on here re managing fermentation temps. Read those as well.

Relax, Don't Worry Have a Homebrew ("RDWHAHB").

 

[SkipMorrow]

So, if I hear you correctly, I can let it sit in this bucket and you are recommending that I let it stay for a full month even. I can do that. And then I can go right from this bucket to the bottles??? I think I need to add some sugar first.

But won't it go flat if I let it sit for a month? How does the beer get its bubbles? I see the gas bubbling through the air lock now.

Finally, should I keep the carboy or return it? Is it necessary for different types of beers that I may make in the future?

 

[SkipMorrow]

Revvy has a great thread for bottling you should read in the meantime.
There are also great threads on here re managing fermentation temps. Read those as well.

Can you point me to the threads that you are referring to?

 

[histo320]

So, if I hear you correctly, I can let it sit in this bucket and you are recommending that I let it stay for a full month even. I can do that. And then I can go right from this bucket to the bottles??? I think I need to add some sugar first.

But won't it go flat if I let it sit for a month? How does the beer get its bubbles? I see the gas bubbling through the air lock now.

Finally, should I keep the carboy or return it? Is it necessary for different types of beers that I may make in the future?

Just leave it in the bucket, you will be fine.

The beer does not get carbonated during fermentation. When you bottle the beer you add PRIMING SUGAR to the beer and the beer continues to ferment a little bit in the bottle, this is what carbonates the beer.

Bottling Process Link - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/

 

[beergolf]

Can you point me to the threads that you are referring to?

Here is the bottling thread

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/

 

[alane1]

Finally, should I keep the carboy or return it? Is it necessary for different types of beers that I may make in the future?quote

You will need one at some point, like Wolfbayte pointed out if you need room for another beer, or if you need to do extended aging like with a barley wine or RIS. Cheers and welcome to the forum.

 

[FrozenOcean]

I think you've got pretty good advice here.

I have some concerns about leaving the beer in a bucket for a month. The concern is that some oxygen will make it back into the beer, either through the walls of the bucket (which are not as gas impermeable as glass) or if the lid isn't perfectly sealed. Oxygen is not good for your beer at this stage.

That said, I am doing exactly this right now with a Irish Red. Gonna leave it in the bucket for a month before kegging, and see if there are any problems. Cleaning a bucket is just so much easier than cleaning a carboy.

 

[ThunderpantsBrewing]

I think you've got pretty good advice here.

I have some concerns about leaving the beer in a bucket for a month. The concern is that some oxygen will make it back into the beer, either through the walls of the bucket (which are not as gas impermeable as glass) or if the lid isn't perfectly sealed. Oxygen is not good for your beer at this stage.

That said, I am doing exactly this right now with a Irish Red. Gonna leave it in the bucket for a month before kegging, and see if there are any problems. Cleaning a bucket is just so much easier than cleaning a carboy.

I've been leaving beer in buckets for a month or more since I started brewing, probably 50 batches, and if oxygen is getting in there, it's delicious.

 

[madscientist451]

These days, racking the beer from the primary to a secondary fermentor is considered somewhat old fashioned and unnecessary.
In Charlie Papazian's book it says if you are going to age the beer beyond two weeks the sediment at the bottom could impart some off flavors. A fermenting bucket is considered more oxygen permeable than a glass carboy so that is another for racking it to secondary.
I hate cleaning the primary fermentation mess out of a carboy, the bucket seems just easier to clean for me. So I use the bucket for primary, and if I'm aging at all, I rack to secondary. But there are plenty of people that use carboys for primary, or buckets and just leaving it in the primary with good results. If you can skip racking, it saves time and effort so why not do that when you can.

 

[aprichman]

I like using my glass carboys for a 3 week primary ferment and then bottling with a bucket & spigot.

I have a lid for my bottling bucket so I could use that for primary but I'm not crazy about the seals on the spigot and the lid w/ grommet isn't air tight for sure.

As an added bonus you can see fermentation taking place with a clear carboy. I can check on everything without taking off the airlock let alone taking off an entire lid.

The only downside is that they are a difficult shape to lug around and clean. I use 3 gallon carboys to do 1/2 (2.5 gallon) batches which makes it a bit easier. I imagine 5+ gallons would not be fun to carry. You need a carboy brush to get in there and scrape any gunk off too. After that I just hit my carboys with a pretty strong bleach solution and wash them out with hot water and they are ready to be sanitized on brew day.

There are also "big mouth" carboys in both glass and plastic that are shaped like a bucket but use a screw lid & seal to create a seal that have holes for a bung stopper. They are also clear so you can watch fermentation do it's thing. If I could do it over again I'd probably buy a plastic 5 gallon big mouth for primary. That way I could still do small batches but go up to 4 gallons if I felt like it. With a 3 gallon glass carboy I'm limited to 2.5 gallons to account for headspace and even that is a tight fit!

Cheers

 

[Zolon]

I know my beer brewing days are still "young", but my mead brewing days are not.

I use the secondary for clarifying and aging with additionals. Getting it off the trub and old yeast.

Many don't, and thats ok. Amazing beers can be made in all manners.

As far as the plastic vs glass vs stainless. There are hundreds of threads on it here, I suggest searching and reading them. The conclusion I came too, even after reading some scientific papers on the subject is.. It doesn't matter.

Unless you are aging for months.

I mean, come on. Some breweries still age in wood. Want to talk about oxygen permeable?

I have a glass carboy. I also have plastic big mouth bubblers, and buckets. I prefer the big mouth bubblers because I can see it. Yet, I can in the glass as well. Difference, with my back issues, if I drop the big mouth, it's not a bomb.

As far as "one week". To quote many of the more knowledgeable here.

"Yeast doesn't have a time table. Take gravity readings."

I just had a brown ale hit FG in 3 days. I have a stout that is on it's 4th week and still shy of what I wanted the FG.

Both are in secondaries now, because I like the clarification and not having to worry about trub when I siphon as much. Preference.

Eventually, I will be moving to stainless conical fermentors. Again, thats for my back, not the brew.

Have a beer, and do what feel is right. If it doesn't come out the way you want.. Have another beer and try again. Find the way that works for you.

-Z

 

[beergolf]

You may find this interesting. It is a quote from the book Yeast.

“The second theory, that beer clears faster after transferring, also is illogical. Unless flocculation somehow increases after transfer, the time it takes for the beer to clear should increase, not decrease. Transferring”“remixes the particles that were slowly drifting down through the beer. If anything, this slows the process of clearing the beer.”

Excerpt From: White & Jamil Zainasheff. “Yeast.” Brewers Publications, 2010. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[CADETS3]

Although I cannot argue with many things that have been stated here....I personally believe that the option to use a secondary is subjective. There is no "right or wrong way". The primary reason why a secondary is used is to have your beer be more clear or if you are going to add something to the beer, such as fruit, oak chips...etc... I personally am a true firm believer in having a nice clean beer. I am fairly new to homebrewing and do not claim to be any expert but I know that having a nice clear beer is an option I like to obtain. The only reason why people will tell you to not use a secondary is because you are adding another step that could result in contamination, but, if you keeps things sanitized religiously, you have nothing to worry about. Second reason is that it's too much work. To me, such statement is kinda lame because making beer does require work and time but it should not be considered "work". I have a lot of fun when I brew, as tired as I may be after brewing for 8 hrs. Anyways, just do your own research and do what you want to do. There are many famous craft beer guys that swear up and down about using a secondary.

 

[beergolf]

I agree with cadets3.

There really is no one way to make beer. You should try different methods and see what works for you. Ask 10 brewers how to do something and you will get12 different answers.

I have done the transfer to secondary and have done just a primary. I have found that my beers are just as clear without transferring to a secondary. I can make beers that you can read a newspaper through the glass using only a primary.The only time I do transfer is for long term aging.

 

[Wolfbayte]

It's true that, like skinning cats, there is more than one way to brew beer. I also agree that it's the brewer's decision on whether to use a secondary. However, although seasoned veterans of the homebrewing process can successfully tackle numerous additional steps and complex processes, I would not recommend a new brewer use a secondary until he/she has had multiple successful batches under his/her belt and mastered the key steps: sanitation, cooling, ferm temps, and bottling without oxidizing; and tasted the result.

For the early batches, keeping it as simple as possible is more important than debating the virtues and vices of secondaries to the new brewer.

 

[bondra76]

for a beginner I wouldn't suggest using a secondary or transferring anything during fermentation

get a few batches under your belt first using just a primary

 

[jethro55]

All good recommendations. As a beginner, I found that secondary was very helpful in getting clear beer because my siphoning skills were so poor at first. I just got in the habit and always do it now.