Why transfer beer to a separate bottling bucket?

[1977Brewer]

Thinking that secondary is outdated or out-moded? That suggests that we should all brew the same way. Reminds of the Mockingjay movie series.

You can find the best way to brew for yourself, a way that would work for anyone else. Is it possible that there are others ways that are similar? Is there a holy grail to brewing?

Perhaps suggesting that thinking something is tantamount to mandating it is more in line with totalitarianism than you realize.

No one says to never secondary, they just point out that it's unnecessary in most cases.

Using a bottling bucket is just good practice. Bottling from a siphon is clumsy and awful anyway. Batch priming us far more accurate and scalable than using priming drops or priming per bottle.

 

[gbx]

Not so. Kegging is not a cure all for all things brewing. If you can safely rack to a secondary, then why do you think it cannot be done with a bottling bucket? Illogical says I. Proper use of a racking tube from fermenter to bottling bucket is perfectly safe, as I've done it for years & seriously doubt your kegged version are better merely for being kegged rather than bottled. One doesn't need to bottle from a purged keg to get good bottled beers. The racking tube takes care of that. Cold side/hot side aeration aren't the big boogieman people think it is. Besides, as I said, proper racking technique will prevent any oxidation if done correctly. And conditioning is a relative term. Relative to how much conditioning a particular beer needs before it's deemed ready to drink. Could be 3 weeks, could be 10 or more, depending on the beer.

Agree that kegging is not a cure all for all things brewing (I just spent the last hour and half cursing at the ****ing thing) but it does cure oxidation. I traded my belief in HSA and "hints of oxidation" on my scoresheets for a bunch of new problems and spraying foam all over my kitchen And not illogical, I think the only way you can safely rack to a secondary or bottling bucket is by first filling it with pure CO2. If you don't have a kegging system, its not possible so probably better to skip the transfers and go straight to the bottle from the primary.

 

[lowtones84]

If your transferring technique is bad perhaps, but I bottle exclusively and always use a bottling bucket. Of course there have been a couple of times I could pick up oxidation after some time, but there are also several brews that I've done, forgotten about for 2 years and pulled one from the back of the closet with no sign of oxidation.

With anything that you do, it's about technique as well as equipment, not just equipment. But I guess you could just tell everybody that their palate sucks and they just can't pick up their off flavors.

 

[Wavery]

Not so. Kegging is not a cure all for all things brewing. If you can safely rack to a secondary, then why do you think it cannot be done with a bottling bucket? Illogical says I. Proper use of a racking tube from fermenter to bottling bucket is perfectly safe, as I've done it for years & seriously doubt your kegged version are better merely for being kegged rather than bottled. One doesn't need to bottle from a purged keg to get good bottled beers. The racking tube takes care of that. Cold side/hot side aeration aren't the big boogieman people think it is. Besides, as I said, proper racking technique will prevent any oxidation if done correctly. And conditioning is a relative term. Relative to how much conditioning a particular beer needs before it's deemed ready to drink. Could be 3 weeks, could be 10 or more, depending on the beer.

Unionrdr....... Do you have pics of your "Racking tube". I'm not sure that I understand what it is. Is it just a plastic tube or is it molded or what? That sounds like it would be the way to go because I wouldn't be sticking a siphon tube through the top of my beer and always having to be concerned about the level of the tube in the beer. It also just sounds all around cleaner.

 

[jethro55]

Perhaps suggesting that thinking something is tantamount to mandating it is more in line with totalitarianism than you realize.

No one says to never secondary, they just point out that it's unnecessary in most cases.

Using a bottling bucket is just good practice. Bottling from a siphon is clumsy and awful anyway. Batch priming us far more accurate and scalable than using priming drops or priming per bottle.

Oh, I misinterpreted that you were mandating valid ideas and experiences. You definitely misinterpreted, I meant that it is totally unnecessary to use a primary only technique, no matter what the circumstance.

I thought you were the one that you had successes without a bottling bucket? Wait a minute,let me double back and change my claims.

 

[kh54s10]

Bottling buckets are a dumb idea from a time long past. Its an unnecessary transfer and you will oxidize your beer that way. If you don't think so, your palate isn't as great as you think it is. If you must bottle condition, either use carbonation tabs or mix up a priming solution to a known concentration, add to each bottle with a medicine dropper and then siphon directly from the fermenter to the bottle.

Really?? With, I would argue, a majority of people are using bottling buckets and not experiencing oxidation...

Besides, it is a total waste of time to prime each bottle individually for an imperceptible decrease in possible oxidation.

Besides that, bottling from primary will lose you a few bottles of beer, or those few will have crud in them... It is impossible siphon that carefully. If you suck some trub when using a bottling bucket it will settle in the bucket rather than in the bottles.

And someone else mentioned hot side aeration.. How this is a concern when bottling?????

 

[gbx]

Really?? With, I would argue, a majority of people are using bottling buckets and not experiencing oxidation...

Besides, it is a total waste of time to prime each bottle individually for an imperceptible decrease in possible oxidation.

Besides that, bottling from primary will lose you a few bottles of beer, or those few will have crud in them... It is impossible siphon that carefully. If you suck some trub when using a bottling bucket it will settle in the bucket rather than in the bottles.

And someone else mentioned hot side aeration.. How this is a concern when bottling?????

You might not be getting the classic mouth full of cardboard but you probably are getting muted aroma and flavour compared to what you could have gotten with less oxidation. I didn't believe it either until I started kegging. I had a very noticeable improvement on light coloured hoppy beers and I've talked to other homebrewers who noticed the same thing.

And I don't mind sacrificing a few pints for the good of the batch (not that a few bottles with extra trub is a sacrifice, i just wouldn't serve those to others).

 

[Yooper]

Folks, let's try to remember some of our forum rules, please! While discussion is great, and why we are here, let's remember that the topic of the thread is "Why a bottling bucket?" and we are in the "Beginner's Forum".

Kegging is not at all part of the topic, nor is HSA. It's important to acknowledge such things of course, but in the beginner's forum a person asking about a bottling bucket is probably not in the kegging part of the hobby, nor ready for a controversial subject.

Please remember the 'golden rule' and the 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything' part of that. The OP got back on track, but for a while it looked like some snarkiness and namecalling was going on. Let's keep on topic, and be nice and remember our manners, especially in the beginner's forum. Thanks!

 

[Wavery]

For what it's worth..... I have ZERO interest in kegging..... not sure how entered this topic.

I bottle beer to take camping, take to friends house and just give away bottles to family that enjoy a particular brew. I'm not about to drag around a keg or give them away. I'm very happy with bottling.

 

[gbx]

Folks, let's try to remember some of our forum rules, please! While discussion is great, and why we are here, let's remember that the topic of the thread is "Why a bottling bucket?" and we are in the "Beginner's Forum".

Kegging is not at all part of the topic, nor is HSA. It's important to acknowledge such things of course, but in the beginner's forum a person asking about a bottling bucket is probably not in the kegging part of the hobby, nor ready for a controversial subject.

Please remember the 'golden rule' and the 'if you can't say something nice, don't say anything' part of that. The OP got back on track, but for a while it looked like some snarkiness and namecalling was going on. Let's keep on topic, and be nice and remember our manners, especially in the beginner's forum. Thanks!

sorry, yooper In the spirit of the beginner forum, please ignore my previous comments and insert "I don't think you need a bottling bucket and think you would have better results using carbonation tabs and bottling from the fermenter"

 

[Wavery]

sorry, yooper In the spirit of the beginner forum, please ignore my previous comments and insert "I don't think you need a bottling bucket and think you would have better results using carbonation tabs and bottling from the fermenter"

Thanks gbx...... I tried carbo tabs and found them a tad expensive. Also, I use all different size bottles..... 12oz, 18oz, 22oz, 500ml, 750ml, 1ltr bottles. It gets kinda crazy trying to figure out how to divide up the carbo tabs. Sometimes my wife wants a 12oz and I want a 22oz...... If we have guests, I break open a larger bottle.

I prefer bulk priming.

 

[unionrdr]

Unionrdr....... Do you have pics of your "Racking tube". I'm not sure that I understand what it is. Is it just a plastic tube or is it molded or what? That sounds like it would be the way to go because I wouldn't be sticking a siphon tube through the top of my beer and always having to be concerned about the level of the tube in the beer. It also just sounds all around cleaner.

I have a 2 part bottling video I did a couple years ago on Youtube on my "unionrdr's channel". You could see one of the racking tube setups I use. I have a Cooper's Micro Brew fermenter & a Midwest shrt 7.9G bucket. Both have spigots on them. But the Cooper's has to use the tube from the Little Bottler to connect the 3/8" piece of tubing to the spigot to run from the top of the fermenter stand to half way around the bottom of the bottling bucket.
Now, the shorty bucket has the red & white Italian spigot on it. Just a length of 3/8" tubing will connect to a recess on the spout of the Italian spigot to run down into the bottom of the bottling bucket.
Running the tubing down to half way around the bottom of the bottling bucket allows the beer to swirl around as the bucket fills from the bottom up, preventing oxidation. I don't have seperate pics, but you can see my setup in the bottling videos.

 

[Fenduh]

I use Domino Dots to carb and bottle right from the fermenting bucket. I've done my last dozen batches this way and they work great.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I have primed and bottled from the primary without issue. Gentle mixing without rousing the sediment is not that dificult. I would also suggest waiting 30 minutes or so after adding the primary soultion to allow it to diffuse into the beer. The two solutions will mix on their own through diffusion given some time...same principle why a drop of food coloring in a large container will evenly disperse with a bit of time.

Best practice, probably not.
Will it work....yes IME.

Diffusion links
http://highered.mheducation.com/sit.../chapter2/animation__how_diffusion_works.html

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...arZHxXIWPLza0Jw9E=&docid=eppHpTL41lnYnM&itg=1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion

 

[xcxgh]

I've read many many posts where the poster mentions transferring the beer (after primary fermentation) to another bucket before bottling.

 

[1975brewer]

To the OP. It sounds like you have gotten past the bickering & read Revvy's post. That basic method is the only way I have ever bottled & I have consumed beers that I have had in the basement for over 10 years & they have not been oxidized. Good cleaning & sanitizing & you won't go wrong with that method.

 

[Wavery]

To the OP. It sounds like you have gotten past the bickering & read Revvy's post. That basic method is the only way I have ever bottled & I have consumed beers that I have had in the basement for over 10 years & they have not been oxidized. Good cleaning & sanitizing & you won't go wrong with that method.

A few people mentioned "bickering" & "name calling" in this thread......... somehow, I missed it. If they are referring to the "Insane" method of adding sugar to the initial fermentation..... I didn't take that personally and just tried to lighten things up a bit. No one called me names that I saw. That one poster just took issue with the method.... not me.

I have primed and bottled from the primary without issue. Gentle mixing without rousing the sediment is not that dificult. I would also suggest waiting 30 minutes or so after adding the primary soultion to allow it to diffuse into the beer. The two solutions will mix on their own through diffusion given some time...same principle why a drop of food coloring in a large container will evenly disperse with a bit of time.

Best practice, probably not.
Will it work....yes IME.

This is the way that I have been doing it....... I haven't had any issues either.

I think I'll try the bottling bucket method once and see how it goes. It would be nice to get rid of that little bit of sediment in the bottles if I can. I never even notice it until I started this thread though....

 

[wilserbrewer]

Sorry, bottle conditioned beer will always have some yeast at the bottom of the bottle from the yeast consuming the priming sugar.

 

[unionrdr]

The question is, how much sediment. Sorry if I came off a lil harsh before, but my use of a bottling bucket never gave me the problems a particular reply mentioned. Properly done, the beer will be good, all other parts of the process being equal.

 

[wilserbrewer]

The question is, how much sediment. .

I believe that is decided by how well you crash or settle your primary, not really part of the bottling process. If you cold crash the primary, and the yeast cake is compact, sediment in the bottles will be minimal.

 

[unionrdr]

Exactly so. I was referring to getting the primary/secondary Settled well. After FG is reached, I let it settle out clear or slightly misty over 3-7 days before racking to the bottling bucket with priming solution. What little gritty stuff gets sucked up settles out rather quickly.

 

[joshesmusica]

to the OP, besides the one snarky commenter talking about bottling buckets being outdated, most everyone who bottles from the primary fermenter will usually admit it's not the best practice. why? the reasons mentioned above:
1) you will have a much higher chance of uneven carbonation
2) you will inevitably stir up more trub and yeast cake than you would using a bottling bucket. reason being that it will settle back out in the bottling bucket.
3) it is much easier to bottle using a bottling bucket with a spigot and a hose or bottle filler than siphoning from your primary, a lot less mess, less potential to spill once you get the technique down. etc. it may be another bucket to clean, but really how hard is it to rinse out a bucket? it's only been in contact with the beer for a small amount of time. you don't need to go into any intense scrubbing or anything.
4) you have just as much chance of oxidizing your beer trying to siphon out of primary into bottles as you do siphoning into a bottling bucket. i would even argue that you have more of a chance, depending on your siphoning technique into the bottles.

i used to bottle from the primary, or siphon into my boil kettle in order to get the priming sugar mixed in really well, then siphon out of that. it was a mess. i'm sure i introduced oxygen into every bottle because the only way to do this was by using two funnels side by side and switching out the bottles underneath. i could've used a clamp on the hose, but from what i've seen those are a bit harder to get them to stop exactly where you want them. so this method always took two people. one controlling the siphoning hose, the other controlling the bottles and the funnels. then after we got it all into bottles, we could start capping. now i can very calmly transfer into my bottling bucket. sit and relax and have a beer and chat with my brewing partner. then when it's ready i can calmly start bottling while my buddy starts capping. if i need to take a little break in between, no big deal as i don't need to worry about getting the siphon going every time i need to take a break (i.e. another contact point with more bacteria). if i had to, i can even bottle on my own now. practically no splashing going into the bottling bucket. no splashing into the bottles. i can still cap them immediately if i'm on my own. so then it's less contact time with open air.

now i know people will critique my palate when i was a complete new beginner, but i had people drink those beers that tried all kinds of craft beer from around the world, and immediately began requesting that i sell them beer! so then you gotta question experienced beer drinkers' palates as well. the thing is, i'm usually drinking my beer before any damage can be done by oxidation. and these were even on hop-forward beers. they still had great hops flavor and aroma. so the thing for me that bumped me into the bottling bucket camp had nothing to do with oxidation or even contamination (i'm pretty anal retentive about sanitizing everything). it had to do with the ease of use of a bottling bucket. it just made everything so much calmer and smoother.

 

[Wavery]

to the OP, besides the one snarky commenter talking about bottling buckets being outdated, most everyone who bottles from the primary fermenter will usually admit it's not the best practice. why? the reasons mentioned above:
1) you will have a much higher chance of uneven carbonation
2) you will inevitably stir up more trub and yeast cake than you would using a bottling bucket. reason being that it will settle back out in the bottling bucket.
3) it is much easier to bottle using a bottling bucket with a spigot and a hose or bottle filler than siphoning from your primary, a lot less mess, less potential to spill once you get the technique down. etc. it may be another bucket to clean, but really how hard is it to rinse out a bucket? it's only been in contact with the beer for a small amount of time. you don't need to go into any intense scrubbing or anything.
4) you have just as much chance of oxidizing your beer trying to siphon out of primary into bottles as you do siphoning into a bottling bucket. i would even argue that you have more of a chance, depending on your siphoning technique into the bottles.

i used to bottle from the primary, or siphon into my boil kettle in order to get the priming sugar mixed in really well, then siphon out of that. it was a mess. i'm sure i introduced oxygen into every bottle because the only way to do this was by using two funnels side by side and switching out the bottles underneath. i could've used a clamp on the hose, but from what i've seen those are a bit harder to get them to stop exactly where you want them. so this method always took two people. one controlling the siphoning hose, the other controlling the bottles and the funnels. then after we got it all into bottles, we could start capping. now i can very calmly transfer into my bottling bucket. sit and relax and have a beer and chat with my brewing partner. then when it's ready i can calmly start bottling while my buddy starts capping. if i need to take a little break in between, no big deal as i don't need to worry about getting the siphon going every time i need to take a break (i.e. another contact point with more bacteria). if i had to, i can even bottle on my own now. practically no splashing going into the bottling bucket. no splashing into the bottles. i can still cap them immediately if i'm on my own. so then it's less contact time with open air.

now i know people will critique my palate when i was a complete new beginner, but i had people drink those beers that tried all kinds of craft beer from around the world, and immediately began requesting that i sell them beer! so then you gotta question experienced beer drinkers' palates as well. the thing is, i'm usually drinking my beer before any damage can be done by oxidation. and these were even on hop-forward beers. they still had great hops flavor and aroma. so the thing for me that bumped me into the bottling bucket camp had nothing to do with oxidation or even contamination (i'm pretty anal retentive about sanitizing everything). it had to do with the ease of use of a bottling bucket. it just made everything so much calmer and smoother.

Thanks for giving me such a concise summation on this topic. Very helpful.

 

[Dxpert]

I always push a bit of co2 into the fermenter and flush the bottling bucket as well, I use a fill tube for the bottles, so that's the only oxygen the beer is exposed to, for which I use the Oxygen absorbing beer caps, I have some porter I found in the garage from 2013 and it was amazing!

 

[OleBrewing]

i will add my 3 cents. never bottled from primary and used a bottling bucket. that said it really depends on the type of yeast used. some varieties will have such a heavy cake of yeast and trub that can only be aroused by good amount of side to side agitation. other yeasts are whispey and easily brought back into solution.

but yeast in suspension does give beer a different flavor some good and some that will mask the actual beer flavor itself.

i would say if the results are working why change.

i will aslo add if you don't use a bench top capper do your self a favor and get one. may not seem like much but bottling is so much better with one.