Why nottingham sucks

[humann_brewing]

I used it in my oktoberfast since I didn't have any lager yeast, fermented at 57 and it worked great.

 

[bronzdragon]

I'm not going to touch the yeast debate, as I don't routinely use Nottingham, however I will second what a prior poster added...

Keg the beer and refrigerate for a month or two and I bet the off flavors go away ... unless there was something else wrong also.

cheers

~r~

 

[homebrewer_99]

Look at it this way: if you don't follow directions (including fermentation temperatures) then don't expect a good product.

You can't plan to make a light golden pilsner using 5 lbs of chocolate malt.

 

[Firstnten]

Keep the ferment temp down on most ales and you'll have a cleaner tasting beer.

If you have more than one beer with a sour taste...you might have some lactobacillus contamination issues. Tart and sort of sourdough tasting?

View attachment 13164

No more like burnt wood sour

 

[bhatchable]

If you are getting noticeable sour notes then that definately isn't the nottingham. I had a porter go with notty, before temp control that was at about 70 the whole time, it wasn't a bad batch but certainly could have been better.
as for your lhbs recommending it, that is weird. If i worked at a hbs that wouldn't be the first yeast i'd recommend. notty love temps in the mid sixties, which is hard to pull off with out temp control, or at least in a tub with frozen PET jugs.
You'd be good to take temp readings, maybe a max/min daily fluctuation where your fermenters are and brew styles whose typical yeast choices thrive in that range. ie middle of summer think about a saison (80's) and hold off on the notty until winter, etc

 

[Richabt]

I had a batch back in August that had temps as high as 76. It still came out fine with notty. It was a hot month in north Florida.
Even so, I no longer let my fermentors get that hot any more. I stay below 70.

 

[HenryHill]

To the OP:

Thank-you for your experiment and posting the results.

Your experience seems to confirm the manufacturer's directions.

 

[Freddy57]

I am a big fan of Notty, it works really well and it is very versatile. Normally, I open a pouch, drop it into a cup of wort and in a couple of hours you know the yeast is alive and well. But, the last two pouches I have used have really sucked. This is an earlier batch than the recalled batch. The last one took three days to come around and begin fermentation. I pitched that one straight into my pumpkin ale. I have one sitting on my counter in a measuring cup with apple juice and brown sugar in it. I'm going to pitch it into apfelwein, if it starts up that is. I think it is finally starting to reproduce after 14 hours of sitting there at room temp. (70) If it doesn't take off pretty soon, I'm going to go buy another yeast and pitch that instead. This is really a disappointment when you consider that all of my previous batches have turned out so well.

 

[Firstnten]

If you are getting noticeable sour notes then that definately isn't the nottingham. I had a porter go with notty, before temp control that was at about 70 the whole time, it wasn't a bad batch but certainly could have been better.
as for your lhbs recommending it, that is weird. If i worked at a hbs that wouldn't be the first yeast i'd recommend. notty love temps in the mid sixties, which is hard to pull off with out temp control, or at least in a tub with frozen PET jugs.
You'd be good to take temp readings, maybe a max/min daily fluctuation where your fermenters are and brew styles whose typical yeast choices thrive in that range. ie middle of summer think about a saison (80's) and hold off on the notty until winter, etc

Yeah Yopper told me to do that next time...

The LBHS guy told me notty because it was cheaper which now in retrospect I was stupid for going cheaper..and over a couple of dollars I feel even more stupid about it...

 

[Firstnten]

To the OP:

Thank-you for your experiment and posting the results.

Your experience seems to confirm the manufacturer's directions.

True..true....

 

[bhatchable]

don't kick yourself.. I doubt your batch is really ruined. just don't touch it for a month or so in the bottles. it'll round out. instead start thinking about your next batch! It is alot easier to build up your pipeline and then not touch beers to give them time to condition. at this point I've got 15 cases in my hall closet, all in different stages of conditioning. It allows me to drink one while another needs more bottle time! moral you ask? get brewing!!!

 

[passedpawn]

Well, I hate to pile onto the hate thread. But...

I pitched a re-hydrated Notty onto a 75 deg. well oxygenated wort yesterday. This morning there is still not a single bubble. It's in my fermentation freezer at 65 deg.

This makes an argument for using a starter with the dry yeast, just to get it roused. Although I am sure it will eventually get going, I don't like the risk of a delayed ferment. This is my first, and possibly my last, time I will ever use dry yeast.

Danstar Lot 1080360088V exp. 08-2010

 

[SteveM]

Well, I hate to pile onto the hate thread. But...

I pitched a re-hydrated Notty onto a 75 deg. well oxygenated wort yesterday. This morning there is still not a single bubble. It's in my fermentation freezer at 65 deg.

This makes an argument for using a starter with the dry yeast, just to get it roused. Although I am sure it will eventually get going, I don't like the risk of a delayed ferment. This is my first, and possibly my last, time I will ever use dry yeast.

Danstar Lot 1080360088V exp. 08-2010

Unless you try this with a yeast that you have reason to believe has not been exposed to air on an extended basis, I think it makes a better case that Nottingham has a problem. I've never once in almost ten year of brewing rehydrated a dry yeast, and until the problems started with Nottingham, I've never even had a slow start to fermenting.

 

[wildwest450]

Well, I hate to pile onto the hate thread. But...

I pitched a re-hydrated Notty onto a 75 deg. well oxygenated wort yesterday. This morning there is still not a single bubble. It's in my fermentation freezer at 65 deg.

This makes an argument for using a starter with the dry yeast, just to get it roused. Although I am sure it will eventually get going, I don't like the risk of a delayed ferment. This is my first, and possibly my last, time I will ever use dry yeast.

Danstar Lot 1080360088V exp. 08-2010

You haven't even waited 48 hours and your throwing in the towel? First off be patient. Second, according to the manufacturer aerated wort isn't necessary for dry yeast. Third, making a starter for dried yeast isn't necessary, rehydration will "rouse" the yeast.

If you have good cleaning and sanitation practices, 24 to 72 hours will be no problem.

 

[passedpawn]

You haven't even waited 48 hours and your throwing in the towel? First off be patient. Second, according to the manufacturer aerated wort isn't necessary for dry yeast. Third, making a starter for dried yeast isn't necessary, rehydration will "rouse" the yeast.

If you have good cleaning and sanitation practices, 24 to 72 hours will be no problem.

No, I won't be patient. I want activity in my wort within 24 hours, everytime. Period. I don't mind waiting for a starter to show activity.

Aeration may not be necessary, but it will sure help with the initial aerobic growth phase of the yeast, so why not do it? Are you suggesting this was wrong?

Regarding starters: the yeast shows no activity within 24 hours. If I had used a starter, it would have been active when pitched. I see that as a major advantage. While I agree in principle with your statement that a starter is not necessary, in the case of this Notty it was necessary - I just didn't know it.

Yep, I've thrown in the towel on the Notty. I'm pretty sure that it will eventually go, and I doubt there will any problem after that. Still, I won't wait again. I know what to do here.

 

[Freddy57]

I just threw away 4 packages of Notty. They all have small holes in them. These were made in Belgium Exp date 9/2010. I had one of those sitting on my counter for 24 hours in a starter and it didn't get going so I put it down the drain and pitched a different yeast. Until Danstar gets their act together, I'm not buying any more Notty.

 

[john from dc]

i'm so glad my nottingham batch was bubbling this morning by the time i left, this thread could make a guy paranoid!

for what it's worth, i'm one more dude who's never had problems in probably 30 batches with nottingham. as of late i haven't even been rehydrating it.

i don't think i've used any of the recalled stuff, and i've had no off flavors even with the occasional foray into the low 70s. i've had a couple 24 plus hour lag times, but the beers turned out great.

not an evangelist, just a satisfied customer. always interested in hearing other people's experiences though.

 

[passedpawn]

I didn't have a single bubble this morning. Close to 48 hrs. Nada. This was NOT the recalled batch BTW. Fingers crossed.

 

[springer]

proper temp control is crucial with any yeast. The wort at active fermentation would have been a few degrees higher than the recommended 70° upper limit of this yeast


passdown don't use the airlock as a sign of activity or are you going by bubbles on the surface. Dry yeast can be a funny creature I have had it take off withing 7 hours and as long as 48.

An 11.5 sachet of Notty isn't going to need to reproduce unless its viability has been compromised. I have had some that when rehydrated never plumed just sunk to the bottom. Those I discard and open another.

 

[passedpawn]

passedpawn don't use the airlock as a sign of activity or are you going by bubbles on the surface.

Well, why not? I've never made a beer where it didn't bubble like crazy. My airlock (actually blowoff tube, and ain't that a joke) is tight - no leaks. This is a clear better bottle, and the stuff is flat - nothing happening.

An 11.5 sachet of Notty isn't going to need to reproduce unless its viability has been compromised. I have had some that when rehydrated never plumed just sunk to the bottom. Those I discard and open another.

What's pluming? I think mine did that... I re-hydrated for about 15 minutes and it got thick and pasty, like mustard.

I do think this is a viability issue, and that I am waiting for 17 still-viable yeast cells to double enough times to make beer. Ugh.

 

[springer]

Well, why not? I've never made a beer where it didn't bubble like crazy. My airlock (actually blowoff tube, and ain't that a joke) is tight - no leaks. This is a clear better bottle, and the stuff is flat - nothing happening.

What's pluming? I think mine did that... I re-hydrated for about 15 minutes and it got thick and pasty, like mustard.

I do think this is a viability issue, and that I am waiting for 17 still-viable yeast cells to double enough times to make beer. Ugh.

I have at times thought it was sealed up well pushed the stopper in and it started to bubble are there any signs on krausen?

I may not have spelled it write but if it got foamy,thick and pasty the yeast plumed.

 

[jmo88]

Well, I hate to pile onto the hate thread. But...

I pitched a re-hydrated Notty onto a 75 deg. well oxygenated wort yesterday. This morning there is still not a single bubble. It's in my fermentation freezer at 65 deg.

This makes an argument for using a starter with the dry yeast, just to get it roused. Although I am sure it will eventually get going, I don't like the risk of a delayed ferment. This is my first, and possibly my last, time I will ever use dry yeast.

Danstar Lot 1080360088V exp. 08-2010

Same lot number for me too. 24 hours and absolutely no activity. Twenty batches with notty so far and now this. I know 24 hours isn't that long but I have enough experience with this yeast to know that somethings up beyond the recall batch. Pitching safale 05 on it right now.

 

[Rhoobarb]

I've used Notty before and had great results and good krausen within 24 hours w/ out using a starter. Notty is the only dry yeast I keep handy and use on a regular basis. If you've had no activity (airlock bubbles, krausen), then I'd say you have/had a dead packet of yeast. Sorry. I'd re-pitch with WLP039 if you can get it. I'm glad I stocked up on packets long before the recall!

 

[SteveM]

I didn't have a single bubble this morning. Close to 48 hrs. Nada. This was NOT the recalled batch BTW. Fingers crossed.

I am skeptical that the one recalled batch was the only one with problems. Before I stopped using it a few months ago, I'd been having problems with Nottingham for several months.

 

[bell0347]

I will be brewing an American Brown this weekend with liquid yeast, my first time in a year of brewing. I have always used US05 or Notty and yes I have had some funky beers but I have had some damn good ones too. I don't blame the yeast, just my lack of temp control and inexperience. The porter I have in bottles now was fermented with Notty and it has a definite fruitiness to it that seems to be fading a little. I let it go at room temp this time so, not the yeast fault, my own. On this next one I intend to use the swamp cooler and stay on top of ice pack changes in the water bath.

 

[agroff383]

Keep the ferment temp down on most ales and you'll have a cleaner tasting beer.

If you have more than one beer with a sour taste...you might have some lactobacillus contamination issues. Tart and sort of sourdough tasting?

View attachment 13164

BM, what a good idea I love the oil drain pan for a carboy cooler...I am going to do that soon!

 

[BierMuncher]

I stopped using Notty because it was drying my beers out too much.

50% of my beers are made with dry packets of Safeale-05. The other 50% are made with yeast slurries harvested from prior batches that used...Safeale-05.

 

[passedpawn]

Theres a few white spots on the top of my beer. No bubbles yet, but I bet they are coming. Bout time, fer god's sake.

 

[Firstnten]

I am skeptical that the one recalled batch was the only one with problems. Before I stopped using it a few months ago, I'd been having problems with Nottingham for several months.

Funny how this thread has taken a life of it's own. I am running on my year anniversary for brewing this month. After looking at my order history with AHS and moorebeer I have done 32, 5 gallon batches of beer this year. The only problems I had where with notty. I fermented out of the temp range on purpose for two of the three. I had fermeted +2-4 degrees over recommended temps for other yeasts and did not have the off taste I got from Notty. My last batch I goofed the room got 72-73 degrees in the first 48 hours of fermentation. The room may have been that temp for 10 hours tops. when I left in the morning the temp was 63 when I got how it was 73.

The first two batches where undrinkable, worst taste, terrible after taste. The new batch although has some off taste as well, it was not even close to the others.

So in my short experience Notty has been the most unforgiving yeast I have used so far.

 

[passedpawn]

I threw another packet of Notty in there this morning. Those white spots did not grow, and there is no bubbling in my blowoff bucket. This is close to three days. I should take a hydro sample, but I'm afraid to tempt the gods and open that thing up... it is so ripe for infection!