Why no higher end picnic taps?

[tracer bullet]

I just want my plastic versions to have stronger components so the flippy lever thing on top will stop breaking off. Thankfully when that does happen it doesn't allow beer to keep being poured out (plumbing version of a "normally off" circuit).

Agreed SS would be hard to make in the right shape for cheap, but the point is taken, the current ones certainly could be improved on.

 

[Chorgey]

I always had the same problem with the picnic taps but saw that others were using the Pluto gun. It does a pretty good job. The site says S/S but that's just for the barb, piston, and spring. The body itself is plastic.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/pluto-beverage-gun-stainless-abs.html

 

[jseyfert3]

@bracconiere since I asked if you had seen it, here's the guy who mounted 6 picnic taps on his kreezer build. Looks like he uses a stainless mudding pan as the drip tray, and if you scroll down a couple posts he shows a piece of gutter guard he covers it with.

He also has a thread with build pictures, basically cost him $4 a faucet to mount these "faucets" on his kreezer.

 

[Mtrhdltd]

I always had the same problem with the picnic taps but saw that others were using the Pluto gun. It does a pretty good job. The site says S/S but that's just for the barb, piston, and spring. The body itself is plastic.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/pluto-beverage-gun-stainless-abs.html

There is also a stainless version.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/pluto-beverage-gun-stainless.html

 

[bracconiere]

LOL, i saw that pic, and had to make sure it wasn't one of my old posts! i have that exact glass and similar setup for 2 picnic taps!

 

[NTBeer]

I have used picnic taps, the disconnect / 'real' tap combo and Pluto guns. The Pluto guns win, hands down. Sturdy and always stays shut. Easy to hang on a keg handle. And just feels good in your hand. Plus, it's designed for Kegland tubing and duotight fittings, so no barbs / house clamps to mess with. Try it, you'll love it.

 

[marc1]

I have used picnic taps, the disconnect / 'real' tap combo and Pluto guns. The Pluto guns win, hands down. Sturdy and always stays shut. Easy to hang on a keg handle. And just feels good in your hand. Plus, it's designed for Kegland tubing and duotight fittings, so no barbs / house clamps to mess with. Try it, you'll love it.

Wait... it attaches directly into a duotight? I slid the evabarrier over it and clamped it on.

 

[TheBluePhantom]

I have to speak in the defense of crappy picnic taps. I like them. They stay cold, and i don't get fruit flies on them (I get the things in the house every few months, ( i swear it is the bananas bringing them in). i don't have the smell of stale beer from spills, the drip pan is in the keezer. When I pull the keg, I just grab the line and both go to the keg washer for cleaning. I don't have to reach over the taps to load kegs. Easy cleaning on the drip pan too, I just pull it out and hose if off in the laundry sink. Opening a chest freezer doesn't dump the cold air as badly as a regular fridge, though I have considered a plastic shield to minimize it further.

Now you can call me cheap, I am. And this is not just a stepping stone for me. Just looking at a $50 per line upgrade, I have a 10 keg keezer, I keep 4 soda lines and 8 beer lines. So about $600, how many here call that insignificant? I actually have some taps, but i don't want to use them, I like the picnics.

Yes they are cheap, i pay $1.70 for them. That is why I don't care if they break. I have broken several, always the handle, it is the weak spot. the tap stays sealed. I did lose a keg of soda once to a bad QD, now i only use CMB QDs. They also have a spot in them that holds stuff, you have to disassemble them for cleaning or you get mold. I am not really fond of the cheap plastic, i would like stainless version. i will consider the pluto gun, again, big investment. But I will not be going to taps anytime soon. But really, how about something in between $45 and $1.70, that is a big gap.... and what I really need is a better fitting, better looking drip pan right now.

and a side note, stainless will not freeze to your hand at refrigerator temperatures. It really is not even that good a conductor. for a metal.

 

[Brooothru]

I like the stainless flow control faucets. You can adjust them for not having a balanced line, to reduce foaming.View attachment 704994

How'd you get a FC Perlick to work like that? I tried replacing a rear sealing cheapo tap on a Black QD keg post mounted faucet with one of my "spare" Perlicks and it wouldn't allow the shuttle to move back and forth. It works fine with a standard shank but not so much on a detachable QD keg tap. The only way I could get it to work was with the control valve fully opened with high flow. Kinda' defeats the whole point of a flow control faucet.

Brooo Brother

 

[TheBluePhantom]

Interesting note, just found a video on the Pluto. seems it is not ABS, but is now nylon. The older chrome plate ABS is discontinued, the black is nylon and stainless for better strength.



Of course what I found on Amazon is mostly the discontinued version....

 

[NTBeer]

Wait... it attaches directly into a duotight? I slid the evabarrier over it and clamped it on.

https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Hom...Tight-8mm-System/Duotight-65mm-to-8mm-Reducer

 

[marc1]

I have to speak in the defense of crappy picnic taps. I like them. They stay cold, and i don't get fruit flies on them (I get the things in the house every few months, ( i swear it is the bananas bringing them in). i don't have the smell of stale beer from spills, the drip pan is in the keezer. When I pull the keg, I just grab the line and both go to the keg washer for cleaning. I don't have to reach over the taps to load kegs. Easy cleaning on the drip pan too, I just pull it out and hose if off in the laundry sink. Opening a chest freezer doesn't dump the cold air as badly as a regular fridge, though I have considered a plastic shield to minimize it further.

Now you can call me cheap, I am. And this is not just a stepping stone for me. Just looking at a $50 per line upgrade, I have a 10 keg keezer, I keep 4 soda lines and 8 beer lines. So about $600, how many here call that insignificant? I actually have some taps, but i don't want to use them, I like the picnics.

Yes they are cheap, i pay $1.70 for them. That is why I don't care if they break. I have broken several, always the handle, it is the weak spot. the tap stays sealed. I did lose a keg of soda once to a bad QD, now i only use CMB QDs. They also have a spot in them that holds stuff, you have to disassemble them for cleaning or you get mold. I am not really fond of the cheap plastic, i would like stainless version. i will consider the pluto gun, again, big investment. But I will not be going to taps anytime soon. But really, how about something in between $45 and $1.70, that is a big gap.... and what I really need is a better fitting, better looking drip pan right now.

and a side note, stainless will not freeze to your hand at refrigerator temperatures. It really is not even that good a conductor. for a metal.


View attachment 705032

Cool setup! The black nylon/stainless Pluto gun is much cheaper than the all stainless one - I paid $14 each for mine. Still going to be spendy to get 10 or 12 of them, but you could swap some in over time. Get one or two and see how you like them.

 

[Bigdaddyale]

Where are all the beer brewing 3D printers out there?

 

[day_trippr]

Not sure I'd trust a 3d-printed pick-a-nick tap...

Cheers!

 

[HB2 HughBHomeBrew]

Thanks to this thread I just ordered the stainless steel Pluto Beer Gun.

 

[day_trippr]

That does look pretty cool. Be sure to let folks know how that works out...

Cheers!

 

[TheBluePhantom]

Cool setup! The black nylon/stainless Pluto gun is much cheaper than the all stainless one - I paid $14 each for mine. Still going to be spendy to get 10 or 12 of them, but you could swap some in over time. Get one or two and see how you like them.

Thanks, I have been looking at the stainless and the nylon versions. I am probably going to get some of the nylon ones. The video was fairly convincing that they are tough, and hey, I trust CMB plastic disconnects (but not offbrands). I also have a minor concern about the TIG weld. not sure how smooth the inside of the weld will be, might be an issue cleaning them. First I want to sample, to see how easy they are to get really clean. I want to get one, tear it down and look it over. They are no good if the seals are not replaceable. I think try a few on the soda, if they can take 25 psi and kids, they are good.

 

[Gozie Boy]

I'm not sure I'd want to grab a hunk of metal that's been sitting in a kegerator or keezer all night.
It'd be a ***** to get stuck to the damn thing...

Cheers!

Well, Ralphie, you're not supposed to perform mouth-to-tap dispensing! On second thought, I think I did just that back in college...

 

[TechFanMD]

I think the answer is pretty easy. Plastic is cheap and easy to mold into any shape. Stainless steel would be a lot more expensive, negating the primary appeal of a picnic tap, cost. Would any of you be purchasing stainless picnic taps if they cost as much as a stainless traditional faucet? On a side note I believe you are overestimating the percent of kegged beer drinkers that only use picnic taps. If I'm wrong one of you should start a business making and selling them.

There are a lot of things we use for brewing and around the house that would be cheaper if just made of plastic, or plastic versions are perfectly functional yet we still buy more expensive versions of things.

 

[Mtrhdltd]

There are a lot of things we use for brewing and around the house that would be cheaper if just made of plastic, or plastic versions are perfectly functional yet we still buy more expensive versions of things.

I think your argument is out of place. Yes, picnic taps work, but a stainless perlick faucet works better and is more sanitary. I use the more expensive item because it has more value. The question still remains, would anyone pay the same price for a stainless picnic tap as a stainless faucet? If there is demand for this maybe I will find someone to manufacture them so I can sell them, I just don't believe its possible to sell at the price point they would most likely be.

 

[day_trippr]

It would be interesting to know the sales split between the ABS and SS version Pluto Guns...

Cheers!

 

[TheBluePhantom]

I think your argument is out of place. Yes, picnic taps work, but a stainless perlick faucet works better and is more sanitary. I use the more expensive item because it has more value. The question still remains, would anyone pay the same price for a stainless picnic tap as a stainless faucet? If there is demand for this maybe I will find someone to manufacture them so I can sell them, I just don't believe its possible to sell at the price point they would most likely be.

you might want to read the whole thread. The question was is there a better version. (didn't mention stainless, just better) The Pluto was given as an example that there is one. So someone is already trying, and several people have bought them. Not only the pluto guns, but the stainless version. Granted, this thread is but a tiny, statistically insignificant sample, but there is a demand.

 

[bracconiere]

well to all, this thread has taught me. to be cool i don't need to drill big holes in my fridge door, blow $200 on faucets. all i need is a $15 SS picnic tap that doesn't exist, a guy can dream! maybe i should buy a can of silver spray paint for the time being? (the feel wouldn't be the same though!)

 

[Mtrhdltd]

you might want to read the whole thread. The question was is there a better version. (didn't mention stainless, just better) The Pluto was given as an example that there is one. So someone is already trying, and several people have bought them. Not only the pluto guns, but the stainless version. Granted, this thread is but a tiny, statistically insignificant sample, but there is a demand.

I have followed this thread from the beginning. At first I refused to believe the apparent market share of picnic taps. It has evolved to curiosity regarding feasibility of manufacturing and marketing a new product. I will agree the OP didn't say stainless, but a lot of responses do, yourself included. I have seen the pluto gun dismissed as not fitting the need in this thread as well. I can almost certainly say a stainless picnic style would be more machine work than the pluto gun, meaning higher cost. So my unanswered question is would anyone pay $65 for a stainless picnic tap? I believe no based on the many comments preferring them because they are cheap. Not trying to be argumentative, asking a question from curiosity.

 

[bracconiere]

At first I refused to believe the apparent market share of picnic taps.

i love my picnic taps, i've used for 16 years! wonderful human being, picnic taps are great!

edit: i gotta say living in the good place is GREAT!

$65 for a stainless picnic tap?

if my plastic one cost $4.99, i'm thinking a SS would be like $15? and hell yeah i'd buy a couple!

 

[Mtrhdltd]

if my plastic one cost $4.99, i'm thinking a SS would be like $15? and hell yeah i'd buy a couple!

I very well could be wrong in pricing. If your right at $15 I do wonder why nobody makes one. It would probably take a really big order to make them cheap. Just thinking... Wonder how to find out... too bad I don't know anyone in China... sorry I guess I'm hijacking.

 

[bracconiere]

sorry I guess I'm hijacking.

i thought that was getting back on topic? i just figure if a formed plastic one costs $4.99...forming and making one with SS would be about 15?

 

[jseyfert3]

i thought that was getting back on topic? i just figure if a formed plastic one costs $4.99...forming and making one with SS would be about 15?

That's not how that works. Plastic is injection molded for stuff like this, they melt plastic, shove it into a mold, in like 15-30 seconds it cools enough the mold opens and the part pops out. The mold usually makes multiple parts at the same time. Very fast, very cheap.

Metal can be casted, but this is a longer process as the molds are sand which are one time use, metal must be melted and then allowed to cool, and the surface of cast metal is rough so you need to smooth that up and then machine the part. There's tricks that can be used, typically a lathe can make round parts fairly easily from extruded metal rod or tubing. Take the pluto gun in stainless, it's some welded tubes and misc small parts. Stainless ball lock connectors are perfectly round (meaning lathe work), with a connector screwed in the side. That's simpler than a picnic style tap and still is $15 and up from what I've seen.

You can skip the casting but if it's not round so it can be done on a lathe from metal tube then you need to machine it, another complicated process with expensive machines compared to injection molding.

I suspect you could make a cheap stainless picnic style tap for $20, but it would feel cheap at that price point and you'd need a massive order to get the price that low. I still doubt there's enough demand to get that.

Note I'm not a manufacturing engineer so I'm just guessing on prices from what little I pick up on machining at my work and some extrapolation based on stainless ball lock connectors.

 

[bracconiere]

cheap stainless picnic style tap for $20,

that'd be pushing it for me, what about alluminum? i see cheap aluminum crap more fancy then a picnic tap all the time?

 

[jseyfert3]

that'd be pushing it for me, what about alluminum? i see cheap aluminum crap more fancy then a picnic tap all the time?

Aluminum is very soft, it is very easy (so much faster) to machine and you don't wear out tooling nearly as fast as machining. Depending on the shape it can also be extruded or molded to some extent. So yes anything from aluminum will be much faster and easier to make, so it will be much cheaper (plus raw aluminum is cheaper too).

Look up on YouTube how aluminum scuba tanks are made. Then look up how steel scuba tanks are made. The difference in amount of work needed will help explain why aluminum stuff is so much cheaper.

Edit, here you go. Both videos are 5 minutes.

Aluminum:

Steel:

 

[bracconiere]

So yes anything from aluminum will be much faster and easier to make,

so like a cheap aluminium tap, that feels sturdy, but with chrome plating so it's smooth?

 

[jseyfert3]

so like a cheap aluminium tap, that feels sturdy, but with chrome plating so it's smooth?

Perhaps. Chome adds another process though (and cost), and won't make it smooth. It has to be smooth before chome plating.

 

[bracconiere]

lol, what about brass or copper?

 

[jddevinn]

you might want to read the whole thread. The question was is there a better version. (didn't mention stainless, just better) T

If it's not a different material then how would you like it to be better? The design for what they cost is pretty damn good. I went and pulled one out of the parts pile and don't see anyway to make it 'better' other then giving it a male flare end so that it can connect to better/newer tubing more easily.

 

[day_trippr]

aluminum, brass and copper...none of those should be used to dispense acidic beer.
Not even wild about chrome over nickle over brass as that always fails and the chrome ends up in your beer glass...

Cheers!

 

[bracconiere]

you know people, all i can say is this thread has got me irritatded. i have to settle for crappy cheap picnic taps! lol, S.O.B.'s now i want something cool!

 

[bracconiere]

aluminum, brass and copper...none of those should be used to dispense acidic beer.
Not even wild about chrome over nickle over brass as that always fails and the chrome ends up in your beer glass...

Cheers!

but lead would make it sweet!


(good point!)

 

[day_trippr]

you know people, all i can say is this thread has got me irritatded.

I think I read of that condition once. I'm so, SO sorry. Can I have your stuff when you're gone?

Cheers!

 

[BarryBrews]

This whole thread confirms and reinforces my procedure of just throwing my picnic tap and line into the trash and only cleaning and reusing the ball lock disconnect after a couple of kegs of use. Cheap, simple and easy! Funny thing is system is 100% stainless steel, silicone tubing and a nylon brew bag which all costs plenty but the last thing my beer sees before my glass is a cheap plastic picnic tap!

For what its worth and I do not have experience with the pluto guns, but why would you want a bigger or heavier tap that lies inside your beer chest? It doesn't sound convenient.

 

[DarrellQ]

I have to speak in the defense of crappy picnic taps. I like them. They stay cold, and i don't get fruit flies on them (I get the things in the house every few months, ( i swear it is the bananas bringing them in). i don't have the smell of stale beer from spills, the drip pan is in the keezer. When I pull the keg, I just grab the line and both go to the keg washer for cleaning. I don't have to reach over the taps to load kegs. Easy cleaning on the drip pan too, I just pull it out and hose if off in the laundry sink. Opening a chest freezer doesn't dump the cold air as badly as a regular fridge, though I have considered a plastic shield to minimize it further.

Now you can call me cheap, I am. And this is not just a stepping stone for me. Just looking at a $50 per line upgrade, I have a 10 keg keezer, I keep 4 soda lines and 8 beer lines. So about $600, how many here call that insignificant? I actually have some taps, but i don't want to use them, I like the picnics.

Yes they are cheap, i pay $1.70 for them. That is why I don't care if they break. I have broken several, always the handle, it is the weak spot. the tap stays sealed. I did lose a keg of soda once to a bad QD, now i only use CMB QDs. They also have a spot in them that holds stuff, you have to disassemble them for cleaning or you get mold. I am not really fond of the cheap plastic, i would like stainless version. i will consider the pluto gun, again, big investment. But I will not be going to taps anytime soon. But really, how about something in between $45 and $1.70, that is a big gap.... and what I really need is a better fitting, better looking drip pan right now.

and a side note, stainless will not freeze to your hand at refrigerator temperatures. It really is not even that good a conductor. for a metal.


View attachment 705032

This is excellent! I've thought about a smaller 3 keg version of this, but was wondering, do you have to clean an individual line if you haven't had a particular beer for several days or a week. How often do you have to clean the lines and what is the process?