Why doesn't everyone just BIAB?

[chalkdust41485]

Whirlpooling helps to cool, separate the solids left from the hops and hotbreak, and aerate(?).

The main reason out of those 3 is to separate the solids from the rest of your beer so your beer runs as clear as possible into your fermentor.

When the previous poster asked about recirculation, I don't think you understood.
Recirculation is a process where the wort is pumped out of the kettle, usually through a valve near the bottom of the pot, and recirculated to the top of the kettle during the mash. I have not done this myself, but I believe it is done to improve the efficiency since the wort is continuously flowing through the wort. Makes sense, but you'd need a kettle with a valve and a pump.
And yes, it can be done with BIAB too.

 

[cadarnell]

When the previous poster asked about recirculation, I don't think you understood.
Recirculation is a process where the wort is pumped out of the kettle, usually through a valve near the bottom of the pot, and recirculated to the top of the kettle during the mash. I have not done this myself, but I believe it is done to improve the efficiency since the wort is continuously flowing through the wort. Makes sense, but you'd need a kettle with a valve and a pump.
And yes, it can be done with BIAB too.

So recirculating means moving the wort through the grains? Wouldn't that be similar to stirring the mash? I read that stirring during the mash doesn't really improve efficiency though? ....sorry still just trying to understand if all .... if it is just to improve efficiency then I don't really think I need to do it .... I am happy with what I am getting .... sorry to the OP ... I know I am off topic here .... but we are still talking about beer so cheers all

 

[chalkdust41485]

So recirculating means moving the wort through the grains? Wouldn't that be similar to stirring the mash? I read that stirring during the mash doesn't really improve efficiency though? ....sorry still just trying to understand if all .... if it is just to improve efficiency then I don't really think I need to do it .... I am happy with what I am getting .... sorry to the OP ... I know I am off topic here .... but we are still talking about beer so cheers all

Perfectly fine with me. To answer your question: yes, it basically is the same. But with the pump, it's the hands-off, automated way of doing it. There's other things that can be added to it also like a way to heat the mash that you are extracting to keep the wort a constant temperature, but that basically turns the setup into a HERMs system. Personally, I like the idea of a HERMs setup if I had to go bigger. But for now, BIAB works for me and I don't think I need the extra efficiency from a recirculating system -- I'll just sparge a little...

 

[Bobby_M]

The only reason to recirculate a mash for the entire rest period is if you're applying heat somewhere and want to keep the whole mash homogeneous. Sure, there are side benefits like really really clear wort, but it wouldn't be a reason to run a pump for 60 minutes.

I'd called a HERMS/RIMS BIAB and "evolved" system but certainly not necessary.

 

[Denny]

I really do like the idea of a single vessel electric BIAB with an overhead winch to lift the basket.

A winch? A winch is really easier than just making a cooler out of a $20 mash tun? Not for me, man. I have no doubt that BIAB works. I also have no doubt that I have no interest in it.

 

[Proboscidea]

Home brewing is a hobby, right? Hobbies are for fun. It's the process, and the doing, and the learning, and the experimentation, and the amusement. It's not necessarily about the end result. If we just wanted to have a bunch of beer on hand, we could drive down to BevMo and get a bunch of bottles or kegs filled with whatever beer we desire.

Whatever method of making beer is fun for you, whether it's 3-stage or BIAB , that's the best method.

Currently, I BIAB because I'm a cheap bastard. Making tasty beer with whatever equipment is on hand just kind of hits the pleasure centers of my brain.

 

[dukes]

"If it's so easy, why doesn't everyone just BIAB?"

I guess the main reason why I don't is because BIAB isn't easy. I did a few BIAB batches when I first moved to all grain, and I could not keep the mash temperature close to the target for the life of me. I hated sitting there fiddling with the stove every couple of minutes for the hour mash because the mash temp would drop so fast, and having pull the pot off the coil every now and then if it got too hot. Maybe it's easier on a gas stove, but to me it just isn't worth it on an electric stove.

Now that I use a mash tun, I heat my water, throw it in with the grain, and go have a beer and read HBT or BA forums for an hour. Life is so much better

 

[phenry]

I don't BIAB because I already make good beer with my 10 gallon cooler MLT set up. Why try to "fix" something that ain't broken?

I feel like we get one of these soapbox BIAB threads every few months or so. If you make good beer, whatever the process, who gives two craps on how it was made? Just enjoy what's in your glass and be done with it. My friend brews with extract and he makes excellent beer. Do I look down on his beer just because I brew all grain and my beer should be inherently "better?" Should that even be a question?

Should you even be asking why people do what they do on brew day? I'd rather be asking if they want to sit down and try each others homebrews one afternoon. If you make good beer, there shouldn't be any reason to justify what you do on brew day.

 

[CidahMastah]

Hah. Distort reality? Sorry if that doesn't meet your expectations. I'm just speaking from personal experience. I've had 8 hour brew days using my mash tun / turkey fryer combo. That means setting up, gathering materials, cooling, pitching, oxygenation, washing, drying and storing. These things add up, especially if you are doing a recipe with an extended mash, longer boil, etc.

In fact, that's why I used to started at 9AM every time I brewed. So that I might have time to do something else with my day. Can you bring that time down? Sure, but I don't like stopping half way through anything (clean up) nor do I like rushing around like a mad man trying to keep on top of everything. Mistakes get made, especially if I'm trying to enjoy my brew day.

BIAB allows for a quick, relaxed brew day. The "traditional method" involves far more equipment that all needs to be washed before and after use, extending the time from start to finish. That's my experience, and I reported as such.

I roll my eyes back at you, sir.

I think many and most AG brewers on three pot systems can crank out brew days between 4-5 hours tops depending on boil and mash time, if they are doing a decoction, etc. I think the only thing that made your brew day 8 hours was you, not the equipment.

I feel like we get one of these soapbox BIAB threads every few months or so. If you make good beer, whatever the process, who gives two craps on how it was made? Just enjoy what's in your glass and be done with it.

+1, including my statement below...

I consider BIAB a gateway brewing technique. Sooner or later it will lead to a 3 pot rig

 

[Toga]

BIAB is a great way to get started with AG with a minimal investment in additional equipment for most. I tried it. I made a couple good batches of beer then moved on and built a mashtun and bought a turkey fryer. I prefer my current set up. It allows me to make higher gravity beers without having to lift a heavy bag of wet grains and worry about the bag splitting (yes I had a bag split on me......it was a serious mess). As an added bonus I go from the mashtun to boil in less than 10 minutes on the turkey fryer VS 40+ minutes on my electric stove. Turkey fryer with pot plus a 10 gallon mashtun cost me around $100. Both have paid for themselves 10x over when factoring in the amount of time I have saved. From start to finish including clean up If I am organized I am able to brew a batch in 3.5 hours.

 

[kapbrew13]

What?!?! Did I read that correctly? 8 hour brew day? Biab usually took me around 3-4 hours. Mash tun AG day takes about an hour longer but I can do more grains. Biab bag gets a little heavy and need a larger boil kettle.
I used biab to get into AG.

 

[iijakii]

BIAB got me into AG but I'll never go back. It's a royal pain unless you do a lift/winch system, and I always had a bit of trouble with my temperatures also. If I was going to incorporate a lift mechanism and pump into a BIAB rig I'd rather just ditch BIAB altogether and go to a 2 or 3 vessel system.

 

[Bradinator]

I don't BIAB because I already make good beer with my 10 gallon cooler MLT set up. Why try to "fix" something that ain't broken?

I feel like we get one of these soapbox BIAB threads every few months or so. If you make good beer, whatever the process, who gives two craps on how it was made? Just enjoy what's in your glass and be done with it. My friend brews with extract and he makes excellent beer. Do I look down on his beer just because I brew all grain and my beer should be inherently "better?" Should that even be a question?

Should you even be asking why people do what they do on brew day? I'd rather be asking if they want to sit down and try each others homebrews one afternoon. If you make good beer, there shouldn't be any reason to justify what you do on brew day.

+1

Totally agree. Both ways take grain, extract sugar from them and are used in making wort, then finally delicious beer. Everyone has their own setup they developed that works for their situation.

And anyways, we could totally be devoting thread posts to something way more constructive, such as ragging on extract brewers. THE TRUE ENEMY.

 

[Bobby_M]

A winch? A winch is really easier than just making a cooler out of a $20 mash tun? Not for me, man. I have no doubt that BIAB works. I also have no doubt that I have no interest in it.

No, for sure just about every brewing setup is more complicated and therefore not as easy and simple as pouring into a cooler mash tun. There is no doubt that amazing beer can be crafted with a single pot and a cooler mash tun but there are plenty of reasons to depart from simple. It's probably just the tinkerer in me. It's just as important to me in the hobby as the beer is.

When I compared a single vessel with a mash basket winch as simple setup, it was in contrast to a two vessel system with a HERMS coil, etc. not in comparison to all possible brewing configurations.

 

[Denny]

Got it, Bobby, and I hope it didn't sound like I was hassling you. Personally, I hate the equipment building process and feel it just takes time away from brewing. But I'm glad there are people like you who don't feel that way....otherwise I couldn't use the killer sight glass you build.

 

[Golddiggie]

+1

Totally agree. Both ways take grain, extract sugar from them and are used in making wort, then finally delicious beer. Everyone has their own setup they developed that works for their situation.

And anyways, we could totally be devoting thread posts to something way more constructive, such as ragging on extract brewers. THE TRUE ENEMY.

Agree 150% there... Especially about extract brewers... I know you have to start someplace, but come on people... heh I went all grain within about two months of starting to brew...

If I'm not brewing, thinking about brewing (either a past batch, or coming one), working on a recipe, or coming up with some new hardware (or altering something that already exists) then I'm either drinking, or sleeping... Even then, I'm probably dreaming about brewing related things... :rockin: Obsessed?? Nahhhhhh

 

[Domes]

I've been brewing for 17 years and used to fly sparge. Now, I only do BIAB exclusively. It's easier and faster and produces great tasting beer. It's all personal preference though. Some people just don't like it. I begrudge no one.

 

[brewbobaggins]

I've been brewing for 17 years and used to fly sparge. Now, I only do BIAB exclusively. It's easier and faster and produces great tasting beer. It's all personal preference though. Some people just don't like it. I begrudge no one.

Agreement.

 

[bmbigda]

No, for sure just about every brewing setup is more complicated and therefore not as easy and simple as pouring into a cooler mash tun. There is no doubt that amazing beer can be crafted with a single pot and a cooler mash tun but there are plenty of reasons to depart from simple. It's probably just the tinkerer in me. It's just as important to me in the hobby as the beer is.

When I compared a single vessel with a mash basket winch as simple setup, it was in contrast to a two vessel system with a HERMS coil, etc. not in comparison to all possible brewing configurations.

i feel the exact same way. i am a 3 vessel brewer with pump and whatbot.

because i love the equipment/tinkering aspect of this hobby, i may even try BIAB to see what all the fuss is about. Manual comealong winches are relatively cheap at harbor freight, i already have some so all i need is a bag lol.

i read thru this thread, and my response is that i think new all grain brewers are going to be doing BIAB more and more. In the meantime you wont see many existin 3 vessel brewers converting, because most of those brewers have invested a lot of time, money, and confidence in their systems.

also - someone said something along the lines of "well thats not how the pro's do it". And when I read that i started day dreaming of ways to do large scale BIAB. it would be cool and look so ridiculous haha

 

[cadarnell]

As I was brewing my last beer I thought of another reason I went from a cooler mash tun back to a bag .... I nail and hold my temps much better in my BK .... the cooler I had held temps pretty well but I did always lose a couple degrees over an hour ..... in the bag however I just set the whole thing in my oven set on keep warm and I never lose or gain anything ..... I'm always right where I started .... that's just my personal experience ...... I'm sure my cooler could have been a little better quality and held the temps better .... it was an igloo cube style 48 qt.

 

[mcduhamel]

I started BIAB very recently, after using a partial mash for years. I think the principal reason more people don't use BIAB is because it gets almost no coverage in publications like Zymurgy, and when it does, it is presented as a half measure for people who can't brew "for real." I find that this method works very well for my 5 gallon batches, produces better beer than my old partial mash technique, and doesn't require me to either spend tons of money on a tiered system or go get an engineering degree to figure out how to build one on my own. I'll likely never brew another batch that is not BIAB.

 

[duckmanco]

I liked brew in a bag but with my 10 gallon kettle, I noticed that bigger beers were tougher to make consistently. I had a cooler and stainless braid lying around anyway, so a batch sparge tun cost me next to nothing, and now every beer is consistent gravity wise, so THAT makes it easier for me. I'd still do BIAB if needed though, still would and do extract and PM also. For me it's about using what works for me when I need it.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

I brew 11 gal batches in a simple 2-vessel system (keggle+cooler MTL). I tried a 5 gal BIAB once and this is what I found: wet grains was not heavy to lift at all, and the beer was clear, but I lost about 20% (1.5 gal) of the fermenter space due to thick and heavy slurry, and i could not reuse the yeast anymore because there was too much crap in the bottom of the fermenter. Also I had to mix the mash the whole time to avoid differences in temperatures in the bottom of the vessel and the top. Too much work for me. Cooler MTL + boiling kettle is much easier.

 

[truebe]

I don't know much about BIAB so I'm just curious. If you get significant amounts of grain dust in the boil then doest that lead to problems with proteins like chill haze? or things like astringency? I'll hang up and listen.

 

[chalkdust41485]

I don't know much about BIAB so I'm just curious. If you get significant amounts of grain dust in the boil then doest that lead to problems with proteins like chill haze? or things like astringency? I'll hang up and listen.

I believe things like chill haze is reduced with a good cold break. These proteins will be present if you biab or not. While there may be more proportionally, I believe that they will still fall out and give you clear beer. While I have not had my beers "professionally" analyzed for chill haze, I have had some very clear beers with no noticeable chill haze.

As far as astringency goes, I've also wondered that too. But I didn't notice any in my brews where I didn't filter the wort at all and just poured the wort straight into the fermentor. But just as a precaution now, I just semi filter my wort by siphoning my wort through a "steeping" bag laid across my fermentation bucket. Yeah, sure, its a little more work, but I don't mind it.

 

[Beer-lord]

Personally, haze and cloudy brews don't bother me, especially if it's an awesome recipe. I don't put my beers in contests and while I understand some want that pristine look, I'm just looking for a great tasting beer.
My beef is lifting 14 lbs of wet grain by hand. Gotta find a better way on the cheap.I ain't getting any younger and help is never around when you need it.

 

[corkybstewart]

I'd been brewing for about 18 years before I ever even heard of BIAB, and have all the equipment, knowledge and experience with 10 gallon all grain brewing so why change what works.

 

[chalkdust41485]

I'd been brewing for about 18 years before I ever even heard of BIAB, and have all the equipment, knowledge and experience with 10 gallon all grain brewing so why change what works.

That isn't really the point to starting this thread. I'm not trying to convert anybody to BIAB. If you have invested time and money into a nice setup, then by all means use it. I know I would if I had it. But BIAB is more suited to 5 gallons and less.

I'd be interested in another poll that shows people's sizes of brewing. I'd suspect that the majority is 5 gallons (70%ish). In that case, then BIAB is more suitable for them.

What I am really interested in is the poll. I just wanted to see what the approximate percentage of people BIAB. I'm actually surprised. I didn't think it would be so split.

 

[corkybstewart]

That isn't really the point to starting this thread. I'm not trying to convert anybody to BIAB. If you have invested time and money into a nice setup, then by all means use it. I know I would if I had it. But BIAB is more suited to 5 gallons and less.

I'd be interested in another poll that shows people's sizes of brewing. I'd suspect that the majority is 5 gallons (70%ish). In that case, then BIAB is more suitable for them.

What I am really interested in is the poll. I just wanted to see what the approximate percentage of people BIAB. I'm actually surprised. I didn't think it would be so split.

I'm sorry. I misunderstood the title of the thread.

 

[Denny]

I almost never brew any larger than a 5 gal. batch and I consider BIAB unmanageable for it.