Why doesn’t everyone BIAB?

[t2000kw]

Why is that? I have a 3 vessel HERMS system and my preboil volume is 18.5 gallons and I get 13.6 gallons in the fermenter. Would BIAB not work for me and why not?

It's probably because of the weight of the wet grain you'd be handling at those volumes. With a hoist it might not matter. Cleanup might be a bit messy with that much grain also, but I'm sure one of those who use BIAB can chime in with their opinions or experiences.

Donald

 

[Bobby_M]

I brew on a 3 vessel HERMS system and am considering converting my BK to a BIAB vessel for simplicity, space savings, and a quicker brew day. The only thing that seems to be a negative for me is the grain particles in the wort and the fine crush. In theory, can't those two things add astringency? I get that people are brewing great beer on their BIAB systems and citing awards and what-not, but that really doesn't mean anything unless you brewed the same exact beer on a 3 vessel system and noted no difference in flavor. Just because you're brewing great beer on a BIAB system doesn't mean that it wouldn't be better coming out of a 3 vessel system. It may be the same, I don't know. Has anyone actually done a test like this?

Astringency is primarily a high pH issue which you can have in any brewing system. I'd even argue that high pH astringency is much more prevalent in a fly sparged system where the brewer doesn't know they have high RA water and doesn't acifify the sparge.

 

[Bobby_M]

Why is that? I have a 3 vessel HERMS system and my preboil volume is 18.5 gallons and I get 13.6 gallons in the fermenter. Would BIAB not work for me and why not?

Wow, you either have a lot of plumbing losses or an insane boil off rate. Where are you losing 5 gallons?

As the batch size goes up on BIAB, the bag gets bigger and more difficult to manage (not impossible). A lot of the efficiency recovery on BIAB has to do with how much wort you can squeeze out of the grain. The bigger the bag, the more wort you'll lose. Of course, that's really just a matter of anticipating and adjusting to lower efficiency as the batch size grows. The other consideration for a huge bag of grain is that it helps to make a horizontally rolling hoist point, such as a unistrut trolley. Swinging it out away from the pot so you can lower it down safely is better than having to muscle it off of the hook above the huge pot of boiling wort.

 

[Blazinlow86]

i was trying to reply to your post bobby but it got all messed up and i dont wanna bother typing it out again. so ill repeat why i dont biab always. because it doesnt work well for my process. cheers. if anyone want to chat about why they DO use biab theres a new thread for that. cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

Astringency is primarily a high pH issue which you can have in any brewing system. I'd even argue that high pH astringency is much more prevalent in a fly sparged system where the brewer doesn't know they have high RA water and doesn't acifify the sparge.

agreed

 

[Blazinlow86]

Wow, you either have a lot of plumbing losses or an insane boil off rate. Where are you losing 5 gallons?

As the batch size goes up on BIAB, the bag gets bigger and more difficult to manage (not impossible). A lot of the efficiency recovery on BIAB has to do with how much wort you can squeeze out of the grain. The bigger the bag, the more wort you'll lose. Of course, that's really just a matter of anticipating and adjusting to lower efficiency as the batch size grows. The other consideration for a huge bag of grain is that it helps to make a horizontally rolling hoist point, such as a unistrut trolley. Swinging it out away from the pot so you can lower it down safely is better than having to muscle it off of the hook above the huge pot of boiling wort.

as bobby says it can be done but it loses its appeal at the larger sizes. as example my brewery is in the basement and with my current 25g kettles i only have about 2.5 feet of vertical height above the kettle i could use as a pully setup. i imagine a grain bag with 60 pounds of grain is gonna need more space than that to start with. plus i would probably need a 50 gallon kettle so it would also be taller therefore further decreasing that 2.5 feet plus the 50g kettle would not fit in my car. then i would need some way to remove the hanging bag from the actual pulley that would also have to be mounted in my exhaust hood setup so it couldnt be on a engine hoist or whatever as it would interfere..... you probably get the point. cheers

 

[kevink]

Wow, you either have a lot of plumbing losses or an insane boil off rate. Where are you losing 5 gallons?

Boiloff is crazy due to the huge diameter of my BK, I have a big counterflow chiller, and I pump the wort basically to another room where the fermenter lives. I have also been doing giant hopstands which soak up a lot of wort. I like to whirlpool and leave all that mess behind and get only liquid in the fermenter since it is barely big enough for 10 gallons of finished beer in the kegs. All the loss is accounted for and it does not bother me one bit.

 

[kevink]

as bobby says it can be done but it loses its appeal at the larger sizes. as example my brewery is in the basement and with my current 25g kettles i only have about 2.5 feet of vertical height above the kettle i could use as a pully setup. i imagine a grain bag with 60 pounds of grain is gonna need more space than that to start with. plus i would probably need a 50 gallon kettle so it would also be taller therefore further decreasing that 2.5 feet plus the 50g kettle would not fit in my car. then i would need some way to remove the hanging bag from the actual pulley that would also have to be mounted in my exhaust hood setup so it couldnt be on a engine hoist or whatever as it would interfere..... you probably get the point. cheers

I would likely use a metal basket with a handle and build a hoist system. I don't see weight or size being an issue for me since I brew outside on a SS table/stand with no real height restriction. The squeezing thing is a concern, though. I do not want to have to squeeze at all and would not even be able to if the bag is in a metal basket. For a roughly 30 lb grainbill, how much wort will I be leaving behind if I don't squeeze?

Instead of lifting the bag, one could lower the pot with a hydraulic table. Might work in some situations. Obviously you would still need to hang the bag from something.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079JR3V5Z/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Blazinlow86]

Boiloff is crazy due to the huge diameter of my BK, I have a big counterflow chiller, and I pump the wort basically to another room where the fermenter lives. I have also been doing giant hopstands which soak up a lot of wort. I like to whirlpool and leave all that mess behind and get only liquid in the fermenter since it is barely big enough for 10 gallons of finished beer in the kegs. All the loss is accounted for and it does not bother me one bit.

that is a pretty big loss. i start with 21.5g preboil and finish up with 19g in the kettle. that gets me 18g in the fermenter leaving all the trub behind. that being said my unitank is only about 3 feet away from my chiller output so i dont loose anything in that regards. cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

I would likely use a metal basket with a handle and build a hoist system. I don't see weight or size being an issue for me since I brew outside on a SS table/stand with no real height restriction. The squeezing thing is a concern, though. I do not want to have to squeeze at all and would not even be able to if the bag is in a metal basket. For a roughly 30 lb grainbill, how much wort will I be leaving behind if I don't squeeze?

Instead of lifting the bag, one could lower the pot with a hydraulic table. Might work in some situations. Obviously you would still need to hang the bag from something.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079JR3V5Z/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

sure you could do all that but again the whole draw to biab is that you dont need all that extra stuff. at that point theres no longer any real advantage. it becomes easier to just clean out a mash tun imho. cheers

on a side note why doesnt everyone brew indoors? i find it alot easier than outside

 

[kevink]

on a side note why doesnt everyone brew indoors? i find it alot easier than outside

Believe me, it sucks and I hate it. My next house will have a good room to brew in.

 

[sslater]

I am an occasional “lurker” on this site, but do have a pretty good BIAB experience level (over 50 BIAB batches, ranging from 5-10 gallons).

At first did just 5 gallon batches (all 6 of my Corny kegs are just 5 gallons), but the past 2-3 years I maximize my system’s capability and brew largest batch possible for full volume BIAB, normally 9 gallons or so depending on OG. For extra brew that can’t fit into the keg, some goes into bottles but most goes into cleaned & sanitized milk jugs (mostly 1 gallon) in a garage refrigerator - and use to top off kegs when they run low. I like to brew but it is time consuming.

KevinK - I think someone mentioned (way back earlier in this thread) - when you pull your bag it is best to let it stay in place and continue to drain into the pot as you go to your boil. That’s what I do. No reason to remove it immediately... And if you pull and let it set, most of the wort will drain out of the bag, over 30-40 minutes. And then the fairly high weight of a large bag of wet grain becomes a non-issue because most will drain into the pot. This way you don’t have to squeeze the bag.

Personal Example:
The biggest pain in the rear brew session encountered was a few months ago when brewing a Double IPA. My kettle has both a ball valve spigot and a temperature probe. Would have to review notes but believe I was pushing 20 pounds dry weight of malted barley. When wet it was heavy! And normally is fairly easy to manipulate bag around temp probe but with this weight it was difficult and it did snag the bag. And my one direction pulley device (not really a pulley / little to no mechanical advantage) needed to be helped both directions by muscle power from me. If I brewed big batches regularly I would get rid of the temperature probe and get real pulley with proper “mechanical advantage”.

I really like traditional full volume BIAB (as pioneered by Pat Hollingdale and some other Aussies) but would use another method to mash if I thought it would produce better beer. And if not able to use a pulley of one kind or another to lift the BIAB bag, conventional 3V would be an option for me.

 

[LittleRiver]

...The squeezing thing is a concern...For a roughly 30 lb grainbill, how much wort will I be leaving behind if I don't squeeze?...

I've only measured this for grain bills of ~12lbs. I've found that ~200-300ml of liquid is left in the grains. That's less than a cup to 1.25 cups. Bills that included flaked barley/oats were the batches that drained the slowest and had the most remaining liquid.

I let gravity fully drain the bag into the kettle during the entire 60min boil. I then took the bag and thoroughly squeezed it over another container so I could measure how much liquid was left.

My conclusion is that if you can let gravity fully drain the bag, squeezing is not needed and not worth the effort.

 

[kevink]

Thanks, LittleRiver.

Okay, here's a question for you BIABers. For an 18.5 gallon preboil volume (measured at boiling temp) of 1.065 wort, how much water and grain will be needed? Assume that the grain is entirely 2-row pale malt.

 

[Blazinlow86]

What's the efficiency of your specific setup? quick calculation looks like at 70% efficiency and with zero losses your at about 47lb of 2 row and 25.5 gallons total mash volume.

 

[kevink]

What's the efficiency of your specific setup? quick calculation looks like at 70% efficiency and with zero losses your at about 47lb of 2 row and 25.5 gallons total mash volume.

I am trying to figure out about what kind of efficiency I can expect from a BIAB system. I have a 3 vessel HERMS and thinking about switching to BIAB. I am just wondering if I can get away with using my existing BK as a BIAB pot and roughly about how much grain it will take so I can compare it to my current system. If your numbers are right, BIAB looks much less efficient than my current system, and since my BK is 25 gallons, I will not be able to BIAB in it.

What do you mean by zero losses? Do you mean no grain absorption, no bag squeezing, or something else?

 

[LittleRiver]

... when I explain why I don't do biab for my big batches I don't need a 5-10 gallon biaber explaining I'm incorrect....

You seem to be so caught up in your fervor that you've missed the fact that no one has done that. There's not a single post that says you should BIAB for your extra large batches.

...Because the question at hand is specifically why people that do **not** biab don't I'm not sure how the typical biab user's batch size is relevant to the specific title of this thread? the point is theres a reason you dont typically see biab setups larger than 5-10 gallons....thats the whole point.

Everybody seems to agree that batches larger than "normal" homebrew scale are not a great fit for BIAB (though it's possible, and has been done).

But that's not the whole point of the discussion. People have posted other equally valid reasons they don't BIAB. Injuries, significant investment in gear before they knew about BIAB, personal preference, etc.

...get it yet?? the thread isnt about 5-10 gallons biab users

The original poster was a 10gal batch sparger who was switching to single vessel BIAB. Though he didn't specifically state the batch size he plans to do, it's a safe assumption he plans to continue to do 10gal since he said he's upgrading to a 20gal kettle.

Your claim that the discussion isn't about 5-10gal brewers is bizarre.

 

[Blazinlow86]

You seem to be so caught up in your fervor that you've missed the fact that no one has done that. There's not a single post that says you should BIAB for your extra large batches.



Everybody seems to agree that batches larger than "normal" homebrew scale are not a great fit for BIAB (though it's possible, and has been done).

But that's not the whole point of the discussion. People have posted other equally valid reasons they don't BIAB. Injuries, significant investment in gear before they knew about BIAB, personal preference, etc.



The original poster was a 10gal batch sparger who was switching to single vessel BIAB. Though he didn't specifically state the batch size he plans to do, it's a safe assumption he plans to continue to do 10gal since he said he's upgrading to a 20gal kettle.

Your claim that the discussion isn't about 5-10gal brewers is bizarre.

i think this is the first time that anyone has actually agreed that at least in my case i made a logical choice and i did not choose not to biab just because i like to over complicate things or shiny stuff so thank you. i do feel that as another person pointed out this thread has also hinted indirectly that biab is proven to make the same or better wort as traditional methods and at least in my personal experience making the same recipes using both methods that has not been my experience. thats also the reason i point out that the pros are also still using traditional methods. i would think they would have the most to gain switching over as it would be less time and equipment which means more money and a better end product. im also not suggesting that i would build a traditional 5 gallon setup for that slight advantage as i agree it is alot more complicated for the minor improvement. additionally i meant to type that the discussion isnt ** only** about 5-10 gallon brewers but i was using my phone so i did not notice the error. that being said i still feel if we dont want people that arent *typical* homebrewers responding that info should be added to the title because those are the people that typically dont biab and if there input doesnt count whats the point of the question in the first place? cheers



because i often do not use my words correctly especially when typing on the phone and this thread has gotten so far off track ill re answer the question more directly

i decided not to biab on my large 18g system because the logistics of biab for my batch sizes brewed indoors in my basement didnt really work,my system does not need to be moved ever, i enjoy brewing so the extra time doesnt matter for me, and very fortunately i have a unlimited brewing budget so in essence all the bonuses of biab dont really apply to this system. additionally because i **gift** about 2/3 the beer this system brews its on tighter schedule and i need clear product in the kegs at latest 2 weeks from brewday typically to keep up with demand and i find with biab i end up with cloudy beer in the keg if i rack that soon.


i decided to biab on my small 2.5g system because its quick and easy and theres no reason to over complicate that setup. works great and i recommend it to everyone


i also decided at some point to finish a medium 5g system for in between batch sizes as the 18g system cant boil less than 6g and even then the numbers get all screwed up and are generally inconsistant. i decided to biab on that system because its quick and easy and theres no reason to over complicate that setup. i predict it will work great and i also recommend it to everyone


and with that im out of the thread that appears i may not have been invited to in the first place lol. cheers

 

[t2000kw]

A "modified" BIAB method someone on my groups.io brewing group (it's called Zymurgy) sounds useful. He makes up two or more brewing bags and steeps them like "tea bags" in the water/wort, and it's easier to remove the smaller bags than one large bag. He does 12 gallon batches. I'll quote part of his post from today below.

I don't know if that would work for those who don't do larger BIAB batches because of the weight of the huge grain bag or not, but I thought I'd share it. It's something I haven't heard of doing before, sort of one of those things you might say, "Why didn't I think of that?" With smaller bags instead of one very large bag, even squeezing would be easier, though it sounds like just letting the bags suspend over something to collect the wort draining from them would be all you really need to do if the losses after a 1/2 hour or so drain session are as small as reported here.

Donald
-----------------------------
"I do 12 gallon batches. Even with smaller batches, I found it easier (or even possible, given the weight of a single, sodden, large bag of grain) to make up two by two foot squares of the mesh cloth, each gathered together loosely around smaller amounts of crushed grain. I tie off the top edge around top and bottom of a golf ball using finely woven 1/4 inch nylon cord and drape the cord ends over the pot sides, with the ends tied to the pot handles.

"I use a dollar store aluminum serving tray upside down in the bottom of the pot to prevent bag scorching.

"So the grain, loosely contained in the bags, is immersed like tea bags suspended away from the pot bottom and, at the end of the mash process, rung out in a dedicated household twist ringer bucket."

 

[LittleRiver]

.... hinted indirectly that biab is proven to make the same or better wort as traditional methods and at least in my personal experience making the same recipes using both methods that has not been my experience....

I didn't read them as indirect hints, I read them to directly say that beer made with BIAB can be as good as beer made by any other method -- and they have the awards to back up their claims. I agree with them.

...thats also the reason i point out that the pros are also still using traditional methods....

I don't think they're doing that for quality reasons though, I think it's related to the volume of beer they're producing. For large volume operation there's benefits to pumping around the liquid rather than moving the grain. There are some small breweries using large single vessel systems, but they are outliers for sure.

... if we dont want people that arent *typical* homebrewers responding that info should be added to the title because those are the people that typically dont biab and if there input doesnt count whats the point of the question in the first place? cheers

If you feel that your voice in this discussion is not wanted, you're wrong. Most home brewers have not tackled batches as large as you are making, so you have a lot of insight and knowledge you can bring to the table. I'd love to hear more about your big rig, and even see some photos of it.

One more thing.... Happy Brew Year! May all your yeast be happy, and all your 2019 brews be successful!

 

[Blazinlow86]

I didn't read them as indirect hints, I read them to directly say that beer made with BIAB can be as good as beer made by any other method -- and they have the awards to back up their claims. I agree with them.



I don't think they're doing that for quality reasons though, I think it's related to the volume of beer they're producing. For large volume operation there's benefits to pumping around the liquid rather than moving the grain. There are some small breweries using large single vessel systems, but they are outliers for sure.



If you feel that your voice in this discussion is not wanted, you're wrong. Most home brewers have not tackled batches as large as you are making, so you have a lot of insight and knowledge you can bring to the table. I'd love to hear more about your big rig, and even see some photos of it.

One more thing.... Happy Brew Year! May all your yeast be happy, and all your 2019 brews be successful!

sounds like were on the same page in that case. brew on. cheers

p.s my big setup is a kal clone with slightly larger kettles and a MUCH uglier brewroom lol. if youve seen one you seen them all. just dont make fun of the ugly brewstand. eventually the room will be renoed and the stand will be replaced with something else

 

[sslater]

Thanks, LittleRiver.

Okay, here's a question for you BIABers. For an 18.5 gallon preboil volume (measured at boiling temp) of 1.065 wort, how much water and grain will be needed? Assume that the grain is entirely 2-row pale malt.

Kevin - If you have an existing pot - can you give me the pot dimensions and I will put it in a BIABacus file (file Pat Hollingdale developed for BIAB) and show you an accurate estimate of what you will get out of it.

70% seems very low for traditional full volume BIAB on “Efficiency Into Boil”...should be some higher. But larger gravities don’t get as high of efficiency. The BIABacus file will estimate efficiency results quite accurately.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I am trying to figure out about what kind of efficiency I can expect from a BIAB system. I have a 3 vessel HERMS and thinking about switching to BIAB. I am just wondering if I can get away with using my existing BK as a BIAB pot and roughly about how much grain it will take so I can compare it to my current system. If your numbers are right, BIAB looks much less efficient than my current system, and since my BK is 25 gallons, I will not be able to BIAB in it.

What do you mean by zero losses? Do you mean no grain absorption, no bag squeezing, or something else?

to clarify that 70% was brew house efficiency i was refering too. id say you definately will get better efficiency using the biab method however to do full volume mashes for a finshed 18g batch you will probably need a 30g kettle to be safe. id go with a 40g that way you can do bigger beers too. cheers

 

[sslater]

to clarify that 70% was brew house efficiency i was refering too.

Lots of different ways to measure efficiency and we homebrewers don’t always speak the same language... Efficiency Into Boil, think that is the same as Brew House Efficiency. (?) Measures efficiency of your mashing process and does not include other aspects of your brewing operation.

 

[LittleRiver]

I am trying to figure out about what kind of efficiency I can expect from a BIAB system...

For 5gal batches I get low 80's (~83%) brewhouse efficiency on my BIAB rig. I don't sparge, recirculate, mashout, or squeeze the bag. I crush once at .025", and have never had astringency issues.

I insulate the kettle for the mash and usually stay within 1deg of target (I always stay within 1deg for the first 10-15min, by which time conversion is complete). When the mash is done I hoist the bag up with a rope/pulley system and immediately fire the burner for the boil. When the bag stops dripping I swing it over and lower it into a bucket to carry to the woods. The local deer and turkey love me.

Brew days typically take 3:45. That's everything, from starting to fill the kettle to everything cleaned and put away. Nothing is prepped beforehand. I mash and boil for 1 hour each. The 3:45 time was with a crappy burner, I expect that my new KAB4 will shave 10-15min off my total time. I think I could easily do a 3hr brew by shortening my mash and boil times by 15min each, and I don't think that would cause any problems with my beer.

I don't rush. Brew days are always relaxed and enjoyable. My chances of a stuck sparge, pump problem, controller issue, etc, are zero.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Oh come on.

You KNOW you love the thought of an 8 hour stuck runoff.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Efficiency into boil is mash/conversion efficiency I believe. Brewhouse efficiency is what gets into the fermentor at the end. I think there's a few specifics still needed to really answer the question. Are you planning to heat the mash throughout? If so your gonna need a false bottom and with wide kettles that can leave alot of addition space underneath that needs to be compensated for. How much that requires depends on the false bottom. if you're using electric element then you're going to need a taller false bottom than you would if you're just using gas etc. What's your whole vision? What's the biggest beer you want to make

 

[NewJersey]

to clarify that 70% was brew house efficiency i was refering too. id say you definately will get better efficiency using the biab method however to do full volume mashes for a finshed 18g batch you will probably need a 30g kettle to be safe. id go with a 40g that way you can do bigger beers too. cheers

you're right and i would never want a 40 gallon kettle, lololol
my 20 gallon spike is already a little cumbersome to handle.
Now i want to start a thread (maybe with poll options) to see why homebrewers brew batches larger than 10 gallons. I can't fathom it
10 gallons was already too much and my wife and I both like beer, friends would drink it, we'd share some at shares and with friends and even just acquaintances
guys on here brewing 15+ gallons just straight confuse me
like, what're you gonna do with 30 gallons (two full 1/2 bbl sanke kegs. 200 POUNDS of beer!)
I saw small brewpubs in san diego that were doing 1bbl batches! lol
if 200 gallons a year is the limit then you could only mak 6 beers a year if you were 1bbl/batch brewer!

 

[Blazinlow86]

you're right and i would never want a 40 gallon kettle, lololol
my 20 gallon spike is already a little cumbersome to handle.
Now i want to start a thread (maybe with poll options) to see why homebrewers brew batches larger than 10 gallons. I can't fathom it
10 gallons was already too much and my wife and I both like beer, friends would drink it, we'd share some at shares and with friends and even just acquaintances
guys on here brewing 15+ gallons just straight confuse me
like, what're you gonna do with 30 gallons (two full 1/2 bbl sanke kegs. 200 POUNDS of beer!)
I saw small brewpubs in san diego that were doing 1bbl batches! lol
if 200 gallons a year is the limit then you could only mak 6 beers a year if you were 1bbl/batch brewer!

I personally brew that much beer because i gift away 2/3 of what i make and it takes me the same amount of time to do 18g as 5g.the friends and coworkers who I gift the kegs to always end up donating $ towards ingredients for there next keg and never ask for the change. i purchase everything in bulk so often theres alot of change left over..... you probably get the idea. Cheers

also fwiw i dont think theres any volume limits here in canada however you cannot sell compete packaged beer thats made at home.

 

[applescrap]

Think this guy wasnt into brewing check out this brew log from pat h.

 

[applescrap]

sounds like were on the same page in that case. brew on. cheers

p.s my big setup is a kal clone with slightly larger kettles and a MUCH uglier brewroom lol. if youve seen one you seen them all. just dont make fun of the ugly brewstand. eventually the room will be renoed and the stand will be replaced with something else

Nice setup and your thoughtful rationale for the system was much better (more thoughtful) then the previous comments. I can see what you are saying and thats a nice brewing space. Looks clean and I like how you have it all set up.

Consider this. Obviously you are not going to change but you could easily put eye hooks in that ceiling. With one above each kettle and a wench to help you, you could easily brew 30g at a time. If you can run all those elements at once or run them somehow consecutively while one is mashing, I could produce 30g of beer on that same system in around 3 hours with a 45 minute mash and boil. You would simply heat to strike, line pot with bag, mash, hoist bag, let drip, boil, done. Then with large enough grain bills you could parti gyle each one with a simple dunk sparge and produce 60g in 4 hrs. Or with a large enough kettle, maybe 35 gallons and or using one of those pots you could just make 1bl at a time in about 3 hours. There are many paths up this mountain and they all lead to the top. I understand your clear beer needs and rationale, but wanted to at least let you know what was possible. Here is a wonderful pic showing. I think you would go from bag to can and clean up would be easy.

What about this. You dont biab, you use a bag as a filter. You mash in in two kettles that have bags. The third is empty. When the first mash is up you pump the runnings into the empty kettle and batch sparge. You run that into the third kettle. Now you simply squeeze, so batch sparge with squeeze (good efficiency iiac), and remove bag. How convenient right, just lift grains out. Now you pump the second mash first runnings into now empty middle pot and batch and squeeze the second mash, then boil. Boom, 30g, in very little time. Not biab at all just using the bag as a filter, which I can assure you the good bags like wilser are likely as fine as any false bottom. You could do the same batch sparging without bag but man it would be harder do get grains out I can only imagine. Even if you dont use any ideas the bag might aid you in that system as a secondary filter, and make the grains easier to clean.

 

[applescrap]

Here is a video of Aaron Ritchie, claims to be award winner of some kind dunno. Anyways he is large batch biabing.

While I am at it, my intial plan with my system was 10g, but for some reason I got a 15g pot. Here is 120 or 140qt for 100 dollars. I am tired of talking about it and it is time to finally get the right pot. Later my plan was to do 15g batches and keg and ferment in 15g vessels. Maybe a sanke. I would use 3 bags and lift each out by hand. I also would like to finally buythe 80ft sjoo cord so I can brew anywhere. Outside, kitchen and or garage. It would be nice to have a permanent setup and I would like to build wood brew stand, just no room in garage right now. I can say that forgetting 15g blunder, that would make the whole system to brew 15g, minus fermenters and kegs under 600 dollars. Going fv in 30g pot I suspect I will be able to still finish in about 3 hours.

 

[LittleRiver]

...my big setup is a kal clone with slightly larger kettles ... just dont make fun of the ugly brewstand...

That's a nice rig, and there's nothing ugly about your brewstand. It's very cool that you have a community of friends large enough to enjoy, support, and help pay for making all that beer!

I live in the south, so I can brew outside most of the time. It's what I prefer, I'm blessed to have a great view from the dock of my shop building. When the weather sucks I brew just inside the dock door. Here's some pics of my rig, which is based on a 15gal kettle.

 

[applescrap]

I vote dock view vs basement. Plus I like brewing outside too. I make messes and laugh loudly at the sky.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I would have been happy outside on propane but unfortunately we're I live in BC it rains alot more than it doesn't and at least with my luck it was always raining on brew day. I also unfortunately don't have any covered area in my front or back yard so it became very difficult to plan a brew day. Inside of course is nice because I can leave everything setup year round and also I use a 18g unitank for fermentation so it's alot easier having that right beside the kettle as i can pump into it without any major losses. Downside to indoors is I have to be VERY careful about spills etc. I can't have sticky wort getting all over the floor and tracking it through the house. If it happens outside you just rinse it away and carry on.

Oh and nice setup little river. Cheers

 

[Blazinlow86]

Here is a video of Aaron Ritchie, claims to be award winner of some kind dunno. Anyways he is large batch biabing.

While I am at it, my intial plan with my system was 10g, but for some reason I got a 15g pot. Here is 120 or 140qt for 100 dollars. I am tired of talking about it and it is time to finally get the right pot. Later my plan was to do 15g batches and keg and ferment in 15g vessels. Maybe a sanke. I would use 3 bags and lift each out by hand. I also would like to finally buythe 80ft sjoo cord so I can brew anywhere. Outside, kitchen and or garage. It would be nice to have a permanent setup and I would like to build wood brew stand, just no room in garage right now. I can say that forgetting 15g blunder, that would make the whole system to brew 15g, minus fermenters and kegs under 600 dollars. Going fv in 30g pot I suspect I will be able to still finish in about 3 hours.

View attachment 605484

Fwiw I'm using cheap Concord kettles and have zero complaints. I specifically picked them because I couldn't bring myself to paying 4 times more for the blingman name, i always diy before prebuilt and because these are the same kettles spike was rebranding previous it was easy to get a premade jaybird false bottom for the mash tun. As far as I remember the kettles were only 99usd for the 100qt size. Cheers

 

[kevink]

The Concord pots are awesome. That's what I use. They cut and weld fine and hold liquid just like any other pot.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Nice setup and your thoughtful rationale for the system was much better (more thoughtful) then the previous comments. I can see what you are saying and thats a nice brewing space. Looks clean and I like how you have it all set up.

Consider this. Obviously you are not going to change but you could easily put eye hooks in that ceiling. With one above each kettle and a wench to help you, you could easily brew 30g at a time. If you can run all those elements at once or run them somehow consecutively while one is mashing, I could produce 30g of beer on that same system in around 3 hours with a 45 minute mash and boil. You would simply heat to strike, line pot with bag, mash, hoist bag, let drip, boil, done. Then with large enough grain bills you could parti gyle each one with a simple dunk sparge and produce 60g in 4 hrs. Or with a large enough kettle, maybe 35 gallons and or using one of those pots you could just make 1bl at a time in about 3 hours. There are many paths up this mountain and they all lead to the top. I understand your clear beer needs and rationale, but wanted to at least let you know what was possible. Here is a wonderful pic showing. I think you would go from bag to can and clean up would be easy.

What about this. You dont biab, you use a bag as a filter. You mash in in two kettles that have bags. The third is empty. When the first mash is up you pump the runnings into the empty kettle and batch sparge. You run that into the third kettle. Now you simply squeeze, so batch sparge with squeeze (good efficiency iiac), and remove bag. How convenient right, just lift grains out. Now you pump the second mash first runnings into now empty middle pot and batch and squeeze the second mash, then boil. Boom, 30g, in very little time. Not biab at all just using the bag as a filter, which I can assure you the good bags like wilser are likely as fine as any false bottom. You could do the same batch sparging without bag but man it would be harder do get grains out I can only imagine. Even if you dont use any ideas the bag might aid you in that system as a secondary filter, and make the grains easier to clean.

View attachment 605481

Don't get me wrong I'm sure I could do a biab method if I had too.I just don't think it will be as simple as it is for people with more room above there kettles. I have a secondary fermentation setup that's also capable of 18g so if I really wanted I could brew everyweek but I've honestly only ever used it once as it's 3 fermonsters and I don't like lifting if I don't have to. Honestly I see in the future slowing down on brewing as it has somewhat become more like a part time job than a hobby at this point lol. I brewed over 420 gallons of beer in 2018 on just the big system alone and it's already payed for itself. The next system will be a 5 gallon ebiab setup that's perfect for making enough beer for me to enjoy.cheers

 

[Ninoid]

BIAB is best method for make batches up to 23L (5.5 gallon), in small apartment, in one pot, simple beers and for personal drink.
Heated water, soak the grain, squeeze the bag, boil and pour to fermenter.
This is my system.

But, if make high OG beers or larger batches I think that standard AG is better.

 

[lump42]

BIAB is best method for make batches up to 23L (5.5 gallon), in small apartment, in one pot, simple beers and for personal drink.
Heated water, soak the grain, squeeze the bag, boil and pour to fermenter.
This is my system.

But, if make high OG beers or larger batches I think that standard AG is better.

Nope, you're wrong. It's best for you. Others might find a 3vessel, all-in-one system, or even extract brew is the best for them.

And there is no standard or correct method of brewing let alone standard AG method.