Why do online calcuators go easy on hops?

[commonsense]

Am I crazy or does Brewtoad, Brewgr, etc etc recipe calculators give a high IBU number with almost no hops. I formulated a pale ale recipe based on the calculator telling me it was 35 IBU and it came out waaaaaay too sweet and no hops in aroma, bitterness or flavor. So I'm calling this "pale ale" a summer ale and giving it to people who don't know anything! haha

Anyway, why do these online calculators call for a half ounce of hops at 60 minutes as if it's enough? And there are literally thousands of recipes that conform to this. 3 ounces of hops for an IPA andit gives a 55 IBU??? That dog won't hunt Monsignor!

Anyway, I'm about to do a German Alt and it tells me 1 oz of Hallertau is enough at the 60 minute mark. I'm scared. Someone please comfort me and explain things to me......

 

[Queequeg]

How do you introduce your hops to the boil? Sounds like you have utilization issues. 1/2 to 1 oz of high aa hops is often enough.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I've found not to 100% trust online calculators on hops. But it's also I don't hop bag anymore. Had a dunkelweizen around 1.055 with a half ounce of hallertau at 60 and 30 minutes (before I had a coil chiller), that had crazy hop character, no hop bags.

Then did a Newcastle werewolf clone that had an ounce of fuggles 60 and then an ounce of EKG at 30 p, in hop bags, similar gravity to my dunkelweizen and ended up with hardly any hop character.

Process has a lot to do with it.

 

[beergolf]

What scale is the software using? Rager IMO overesitimates bitterness. Tinseth gives me the most accurate. Whatever scale us use, continue to use it until you know it, and just how it tastes. After a while you know from experience and know just how the brew will taste.

 

[commonsense]

Thanks for the answers so far. A little more background on me, I haven't homebrewed in about 5 years and back then I was doing 2 gallon batches. Moving to 5 gallons is a different animal and I have relied on these online calculators. Something didn't add up from my memory and my knowledge. (and my common sense)

I am using the tinseth scale on brewtoad and I do not understand how 0.5 ounces of chinook at 60 min in a 5 gallon batch with 12 lbs of grain is enough. The rest of the hop profile doesn't make up for it either. 1 oz of cascade at 30 min, 1 oz of cascade at 15 min, 1 oz of cascade at 5 min? No way is that even a pale ale in my opinion!

Ok here is a link to the pale ale I made, you guys tell me if this makes sense: https://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/bushytail-ale

 

[Beernik]

Chinook is ~13% AA hop. 1/2 oz at 60 min
Cascade is ~ 6% AA. 1 oz at 30, 15, and 5 min

In a 1.063 OG beer, I calculate 47 IBUs. (My efficiency is set at 66%)

That's a solid BJCP American IPA.

If it were me, I'd up the Chinook up to a full ounce though. It puts the IBUs on the upper end of the range instead of the lower end.

I'd probably also use that as an excuse to move the Cascade later in the boil to get more aroma out of it.

EDIT: maybe instead of "solid" I should have put "technical", meaning it hits all the style guideline stats.

 

[Queequeg]

You don't need much of a high AA hop at 60 min especially if its pellet and you have other additions before knock out. Most of my 6 gallons recipes call for 0.5oz to 1oz bitter charge.

The amount your using in the Northen Brewer/ Galena pale ale seems typical. I put the hop scheduled into beersmith and it estimates it as 34.6 using Tinseth. So Brewtoad is tallying with Beersmith.

If you not getting suitably high IBU's then it could be because your utilization factor is lower than the equation you are using to estimate it. If your bagging your hops, not getting a strong boil or doing a partial boil you will get less utilization.

Also your personal perception of IBU's might be lower than most, hence you might naturally have to bittter more for your taste.

 

[Beernik]

I was thinking more about your original comment on sweetness and the question needs to be asked, how much Cara/Crystal malt are you using?

I see a lot of PA, IPA, and IIPA recipes that are heavy on Cara/Crystal malts. I even see IIPA recipes with almost a whole pound of Carapils in them. All of Cara/Crystal malts are designed to leave a perception of sweetness in a beer. They can be used in PA, IPA, and IIPA recipes, but should be used sparingly.

 

[ericbw]

I've found not to 100% trust online calculators on hops. But it's also I don't hop bag anymore. Had a dunkelweizen around 1.055 with a half ounce of hallertau at 60 and 30 minutes (before I had a coil chiller), that had crazy hop character, no hop bags.



Then did a Newcastle werewolf clone that had an ounce of fuggles 60 and then an ounce of EKG at 30 p, in hop bags, similar gravity to my dunkelweizen and ended up with hardly any hop character.



Process has a lot to do with it.

Care to share the werewolf clone? I love that one.

 

[Yooper]

Are you doing a partial boil, or boiling all of the wort?

The reason I ask is just simple math. If you're boiling 2.5 gallons, and then adding 2.5 gallons of water, it will "dilute" the IBUs. That's not a big deal in a beer with lower IBUs, but it is in a beer with high IBUs.

The most IBUs you can get into a wort before the hops oils are saturated is +/- 100 IBUs. That means that even with a billion hops (ok, overexaggeration) you will get a wort with less than 100 IBUs. That's ok, as that's generally the human perception threshold anyway. But if you have 2.5 gallons of 90 IBU wort, and then add 2.5 gallons of water to top up (0) IBUs, then you've got 5 gallons of 45 IBU wort. That's fine for many beers, but not so much for an IPA.

 

[commonsense]

I use pellets and I do a nice rolling boil for 90 minutes. I start at 6.5 gallons and it boils down to 5 gallons. You can set your watch to it.

I used 7 lbs of pale ale, 1.5 lbs vienna and 1 lb of munich 10L. Shouldn't be too sweet if I bittered properly.

Correct?

 

[Beernik]

That shouldn't end up sweet unless you are mashing at a high temperature, your thermometer is out of calibration, or you are under attenuating.

 

[Yooper]

Yes, that should be a nice beer. What exactly where the hop additions?

What was the OG and the FG?

And lastly, what kind of water do you use for your beers? Water chemistry can play a role, due to mash/kettle pH and the sulfate content, in the expression of hops.

 

[commonsense]

1.052 and 1.012 I think. I use good spring water.

 

[Beernik]

Those gravity reading shouldn't leave you with a sweet beer. It sounds like everything you are doing should be working for you. I think this is what I would try in this order:

1. If you use a hop bag or container of some sort, stop using it. See if that works.
2. Check your thermometer calibration. Maybe you are mashing higher than you think you are.
3. Check your water profile. Maybe you have really soft, low mineral water. Like pilsner water.
4. Just start hopping the hell out of your beers.

 

[ericbw]

I had a broke timer before that caused problems (it ran too fast).