why did my bag clog?

[sar_dog_1]

Good morning fellow brewers. I am currently brewing yoopers oatmeal stout.

7 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 63.64 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 9.09 %
12.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6.82 %
10.0 oz Chocolate malt (pale) (200.0 SRM) Grain 5.68 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
8.0 oz Black Barley (Stout) (500.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 1.14 %
2.00 oz Williamette [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 31.6 IBU

1 Pkgs British Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1335)



I mashed in and started my electric recirc BIAB. temp stabalized and i came upstairs for a cigarette. when i came back in, the pot was overflowing all over my basement. uhg. I fianlly figured out that the pump was pumping faster than my bag would drain. uhg!! didnt lose too much but i cant recirc so my temps are all over the place.

My question is what grain from the above recipie would cause such a sticky mess on my bag to clog it so bad. I want to know for future recipies so i can look out for it.

BTW I double crushed all grain ( not the oats or barley flakes) at my LHBS.

Thanks for any help given and brew on!

 

[whovous]

There are lots of ways to clog a bag discussed elsewhere on this forum. Grain choice and crush are not the only ones.

The simplest solution to the problem is to install a ball valve on the output side of the pump to insure the wort flows at a rate your grain can handle. You do not gain any advantage from pumping at full speed, and you won't hurt your pump by effectively throttling it down in this fashion.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1^ Throttle down the return.

Oats and rye are sticky. But you'll need a much larger percentage of them to plug up your bag.

 

[sar_dog_1]

After i learned what happened, i throttled down to a trickle and it wasnt enough. I ended up just turning it off and only turning it on to check temp.

When i was squeesing the bag, there was an enoumous amount of "slime"

 

[IslandLizard]

How much water were you mashing with? If the mash is very thick it will plug up the bag too.

I see you also used 1/2 pound of flaked barley, putting the gummy adjuncts at 15%.
All flaked goods, except corn and rice are sticky due to beta glucans. If there's a larger percentage (>20-25%), you can mill them, boil for 30 minutes, then add more water to bring to strike temp, add the rest of the grains and mash according to schedule.

Or better yet, perform a step mash with a beta glucanase rest at 98-113F for 20 minutes then (slowly) raise the temps to your intended saccharification rest temp (145-160F). See Palmer's How to Brew.

You could do a combined beta glucanase/protein rest at 121F for 15 minutes, if there's also a load of protein rich malts/adjuncts included (e.g., wheat). Just don't overdo this, or head retention may suffer.

I've been doing lots of step mashes lately when using larger amounts of adjuncts, and like the results.

BTW, I mill flaked goods too, on my narrow wheat/rye/flaked gap, separately from barley. It allows for faster hydration and gelatinization, thus faster and more complete conversion. I don't do BIAB, I mash in a kettle and/or cooler mash tun. Sometimes the mash tun is only used for lautering. Using above mentioned mashing schedules, I get smooth and efficient lauters even when 50% of the grist is wheat and/or rye. I batch sparge 2x.

 

[newnick]

I BIAB and recirculate as you do and had this happen once. I stopped double crushing and haven't had a problem since.

 

[sar_dog_1]

Thanks island lizard. I will try that!

 

[TorMag]

I think you finally found out why smoking is bad for you......

Ok, do you have a false bottom or not? Is your bag being sucked into your valve?

 

[nobadays]

I use a similar eBIAB rig and after an episode similar to yours, I now put an 6" piece of 3/4" PVC between the kettle wall and the bag to act as an overflow in case the bag isn't draining as fast as I am recirculating. Try to adjust pump flow rate to balance it out.

 

[TorMag]

I use a similar eBIAB rig and after an episode similar to yours, I now put an 6" piece of 3/4" PVC between the kettle wall and the bag to act as an overflow in case the bag isn't draining as fast as I am recirculating. Try to adjust pump flow rate to balance it out.

Fantastic idea.

 

[stever1000]

The simplest solution to the problem is to install a ball valve on the output side of the pump to insure the wort flows at a rate your grain can handle. You do not gain any advantage from pumping at full speed, and you won't hurt your pump by effectively throttling it down in this fashion.

Doesn't this method apply back pressure on the pump, limiting its lifespan because its working harder to pump the same flow rate?

 

[whovous]

Doesn't this method apply back pressure on the pump, limiting its lifespan because its working harder to pump the same flow rate?

I won't speak for all pumps because I am not all that bright, but Chugger says you can throttle their pumps back in this fashion forever if you want to. I replaced one of those little 24volt pumps with a Chugger and was surprised just how much larger it turned out to be.

 

[stever1000]

I won't speak for all pumps because I am not all that bright, but Chugger says you can throttle their pumps back in this fashion forever if you want to. I replaced one of those little 24volt pumps with a Chugger and was surprised just how much larger it turned out to be.

Oh, that's very interesting, I never knew that. I have a tan 24v pump so I will do some digging to see if I can do the same

 

[TexasWine]

Doesn't this method apply back pressure on the pump, limiting its lifespan because its working harder to pump the same flow rate?

Almost every pump installation should have some amount of back pressure on it, especially centrifugal pumps. Pumps will happily operate anywhere on their curve as long as the flow rate is above their minimum continuous stable flow and the associated motor can put out the required horsepower. That's what they're designed to do.

Well, I should say they'll happily operate on their curve assuming you do all the other things needed to keep the pump happy, like supplying enough net positive suction head.

 

[sar_dog_1]

Normal pumps thats true. When the pump motor drive shaft is directly connected to the impeller, it can put a strain on the motor causing premature wear. However chugger pumps and most brewing pumps are mag drive. The motor drive shaft has a magnet on the end. The impeller has rubber encased steel piece that spins from the magnet. You could completly close the outlet of a magdrive pump and because there is no mechanical connection, the impeller will just stay still .

 

[stever1000]

Normal pumps thats true. When the pump motor drive shaft is directly connected to the impeller, it can put a strain on the motor causing premature wear. However chugger pumps and most brewing pumps are mag drive. The motor drive shaft has a magnet on the end. The impeller has rubber encased steel piece that spins from the magnet. You could completly close the outlet of a magdrive pump and because there is no mechanical connection, the impeller will just stay still .

The 24v ebay pump I have is a centrifugal pump connected to a brushless motor. I think throttling the valve would have an effect on the motor - correct?

I like the sounds of the mag drives!!

 

[doug293cz]

The 24v ebay pump I have is a centrifugal pump connected to a brushless motor. I think throttling the valve would have an effect on the motor - correct?

I like the sounds of the mag drives!!

Mag drive pumps are also good because there are no shaft seals to wear and leak. My first exposure to mag drives was for acid solutions in chemical processing.

Brew on

 

[whovous]

The nice thing about the 24v DC pumps is that if space is limited, you can toss em anywhere; even submerge them in a bucket of ice water to feed a plate chiller if need be. A 110v AC Chugger, OTOH, weighs a ton and definitely demands its own space. But it sure is powerful.

 

[TexasWine]

The nice thing about the 24v DC pumps is that if space is limited, you can toss em anywhere; even submerge them in a bucket of ice water to feed a plate chiller if need be. A 110v AC Chugger, OTOH, weighs a ton and definitely demands its own space. But it sure is powerful.

Not sure what kind of 24v DC pump you've got, but mine definitely isn't submersible!!! I think most wort pumps aren't.

 

[whovous]

Not sure what kind of 24v DC pump you've got, but mine definitely isn't submersible!!! I think most wort pumps aren't.

It is the pump that was provided with my MiniBrau system. Don't you have the same one? I've submerged it several times.

 

[TexasWine]

It is the pump that was provided with my MiniBrau system. Don't you have the same one? I've submerged it several times.

If we have the same pump, it should not be submerged. It's just like those little tan pumps folks buy on eBay.

https://brausupply.com/collections/plumbing/products/brew-pump-24v?variant=897231945

 

[whovous]

If we have the same pump, it should not be submerged. It's just like those little tan pumps folks buy on eBay.

https://brausupply.com/collections/plumbing/products/brew-pump-24v?variant=897231945

That is the one. I submerged it on Steven's suggestion. First use tap water and a plate chiller to bring temps down close to the temp at the tap. Then, run an output house from the pump to the plate chiller and drop the pump into a bucket of ice water. Feed the output of the chiller back into the bucket. The wort gets very cold very fast... it can go well past your target temp if you are not careful.

Now that I have a Chugger I am using it for everything else, but it is way convenient to be able to just drop the pump in ice water for that last bit of chilling the wort.