Why carboys?

[badmajon]

...instead of cheap 5-gallon water containers?

Is there an advantage?

 

[cimirie]

depends on the plastic the water container is made with. If you have #1 plastic, chemically speaking, you should be fine. #2 plastic, there is some debate on, but more people fall on the side of it's OK to use. Any other types of plastics (especially #7) leach a chemical called BPA into any acidic environment (including beer). This chemical can cause some health issues.

Aside from the chemical argument, many folks have a problem with using the water container because the user doesn't really own it - you are technically leasing it from wherever you acquired it, with the implicit agreement that you will bring it back, and get a new container. That argument doesn't hold any water with me as #1 I've paid money for it (albeit a small amount) and #2 the cost of production is much less than what I've paid for it. But I may not struggle with my moral dilemas as much as some.

Other than those areas of concern, mechanically, they will work just fine. They even will fit a standard better bottle topper to hold the airlock. The one reason I don't use them for anything other than cider, however, is that when you use a 5 gallon container (better bottle, carboy, or water jug) for beer, you almost always have trub at the bottom and accounting for volume loss, you usually end up with about 4.5 gallons for bottling. I like to get more than that from my batches.

 

[Nurmey]

I will also add that mead should bulk age for a long time. Water jugs are oxygen permeable and glass carboys are not.

 

[david_42]

You're looking at $40-60 dollars worth of honey. Carboys are inexpensive and re-usable.

 

[beergears]

depends on the plastic the water container is made with. If you have #1 plastic, chemically speaking, you should be fine. #2 plastic, there is some debate on, but more people fall on the side of it's OK to use. Any other types of plastics (especially #7) leach a chemical called BPA into any acidic environment (including beer). This chemical can cause some health issues..

What about #3 plastic?

I have a 3 Gal spring water one I once got at Lowes (no longer offered), and I am planning on making it a small-batch fermenter, not keeping stuff in it for long.

 

[Campbell]

I had planned on using a brewer's bucket for the first 4-5 months and then racking it into a carboy and letting it sit in there for a year. Will the time spent in the bucket be that negative towards the flavor?

 

[vespa2t]

I have used plastic ones with no problems, even with bulk aging up to 9+ months... then one day I was at my local recycling center and low and behold there were two glass 6 gallon carboys sent by the beer & mead gods waiting for me

I do prefer the glass ones, because I dont have to worry about scratching up the inside when cleaning after a really messy fermentation... downside is that they make a 5-gallon batch a few pounds heavier than it already is...

 

[MedsenFey]

I had planned on using a brewer's bucket for the first 4-5 months and then racking it into a carboy....

While meads (especially traditionals) are not nearly as prone to oxidation as beer or many wines, there is absolutely nothing to be gained from leaving it in a bucket for 4-5 months. Bucket lids are notoriously leaky, and the HDPE is quite permeable to oxygen which just penetrates through the side of the bucket at a rate many time greater than through something like a barrel. An environment with plenty of oxygen is a spoilage organisms best friend, so even if the flavor of the mead is not harmed directly by the oxygen, the chance of developing spoilage and increased volatile acidity goes way up.

It can be done, and you can get away with it, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Medsen

 

[Matrix4b]

I would stick with food grade brew buckets for the short term. Glass for bulk aging. Or just bottle and age in the bottle. I generally use the buckets if I have something messy or in a large mesh bag that would need to be pulled out.

 

[fatbloke]

Just reading through, and while there's comment about the leaching of plasticisers into a brew, there's also the issue that the alcohol itself, is a pretty potent solvent.

Hence it does seem to be fine to actually ferment stuff like PET, but it seems that to age a brew, it's better to transfer to glass.

 

[Bush_84]

This is going to be a silly question, but do BBs fall into the same category? Is aging mead in a BB bad?

 

[MedsenFey]

The PET plastic used in Better Bottles (that is what you mean by BB, right?) allows very little oxygen to pass through. I have bulk aged in a Better Bottles for up to 1 year without any noticeable sign of oxidation. I think they work just fine, but I hate the racking port, and won't buy another one with that.

 

[Bush_84]

Ya I meant better bottles. For starting out, they are much more economical than buying the glass carboys which can be $20-30 more than the better bottles.

 

[vespa2t]

Just reading through, and while there's comment about the leaching of plasticisers into a brew, there's also the issue that the alcohol itself, is a pretty potent solvent.

I dont know whats got everyone freaked out about their fermenter leaching chemicals...we are totally surrounded by stuff that leaches stuff that we dont really know if it will eventually kill us or not. Canned food is all sitting in a plastic liner that contains BPA. Bottled water, sodies, and Gatorade all packaged in plastics with plasticisers. We microwave our frozen lunch in #7 plastic trays or our leftovers in #6 containers.

And for those of you who enjoy canned beer, there is a good chance the can is lined with #7.

Now, am I saying leached chemicals are as good as vitamins? NO. I hate the whole idea that we accept this as normal. But, am I worried about leaching from my plastic water bottle into my beer? Not so much considering that massive dose of BPA I get from eating a can of canned peaches.

 

[fatbloke]

I dont know whats got everyone freaked out about their fermenter leaching chemicals...we are totally surrounded by stuff that leaches stuff that we dont really know if it will eventually kill us or not. Canned food is all sitting in a plastic liner that contains BPA. Bottled water, sodies, and Gatorade all packaged in plastics with plasticisers. We microwave our frozen lunch in #7 plastic trays or our leftovers in #6 containers.

And for those of you who enjoy canned beer, there is a good chance the can is lined with #7.

Now, am I saying leached chemicals are as good as vitamins? NO. I hate the whole idea that we accept this as normal. But, am I worried about leaching from my plastic water bottle into my beer? Not so much considering that massive dose of BPA I get from eating a can of canned peaches.

Of course, you have a valid point. As for plastic liners in cans? don't know. Never worked in the canning industry.

The leaching of plasticisers is a known fact. The principal of being able to sell beers, ciders (hard cider to you chaps in the US) etc in cans or in plastic bottles, well that's about "short term storage" and a quick turn around of product.

The only wines that tend to be sold in plastic are of the "bag in a box" type, and even then they're intended for quick turn around - as they'd have been stored in (most likely) stainless steel. The higher the alcohol content, the more the need to store the product in a non-reactive container. It's why that most wines tend to be sold in glass and why you can't just pop down to the liquor store and get a can of scotch. It's not just the plasticisers, it's other things as well that are likely to affect the taste. Hence glass is still the preferred storage material for long term storage that's designed not to affect the flavour........

So by all means, if you want to use plastic containers, then that's fine, personally, industry uses glass for more reasons than just the obvious aesthetic ones........

S'up to you after all......

regards

fatbloke

 

[MedsenFey]

The food grade plastics are designed not to leach the chemicals into liquid stored in them. My choice is to only use such food grade plastics. For storage long term, the oxygen transmission also becomes an issue and for that, the PET plastic of Better Bottles is the only one readily available that is adequate.

By the way, the other big advantage of Better Bottles is that they don't shatter. Having dropped a carboy, and narrowly missed a trip to the ER, (our term for the casualty unit, fatbloke) I am a believer. I won't purchase another glass carboy - it will be all stainless steel kegs and Better Bottles for me.

 

[cimirie]

Just to add a bit to this discussion...

Like a few people have mentioned, I'm not too concerned about the leaching of chemicals. I figure I absorb more pollution from breathing than by using certain types of plastics for fermenting. Having said that, I'd like to share my one experience using plastic #7 to ferment.

I made a half batch of best bitter and I used a #7 bottle (3 gallon) to ferment. While there was no noticeable flavor difference, the beer was very cloudy. I have made this exact recipe before and since, and there was no such cloudiness. Since then, I have used the same bottle to store Star San. It too, got very cloudy. I have determined the acidic nature of both beer and StarSan do, in fact, leach chemicals that cloud up a beer.

I have no idea if anybody else has had the same experience, but I will never use #7 plastic in beer making again. If you care about the clarity of your beer, you may want to consider it as well.

 

[badmajon]

Update: I bought a 5 gallon water jug from wal-mart, the empty kind. It smelled like plastic when I bought it and I thought a spray out and shake would cure that. I made some mead in it, and I tested it yesterday and ugh, it tastes like plastic.

The first time I used one, it was a culligan water bottle that was full of water (when I bought it), it didn't have that fresh plastic smell to it and I had no problems. This time I used this empty one and I just wasted $30 worth of honey and yeast...

Live and learn...