Why Bother Brewing with Lager Yeast?

[bernerbrau]

Victory Prima Pils is another excellent pilsner.

We get about one person on here a month saying there are no benefits to brewing lager, and that ale yeast can do everything lager yeast can for cheaper and less hassle. All I can say is broaden your horizons a little.

So far, I have confirmed my sense that when using traditional lager brewing techniques, the lager yeast doesn't contribute a distinct flavor component.

This is false. There are 11 strains of lager yeast available from Wyeast, and 13 strains available from White Labs. Why would they offer such a variety if they don't do anything to contribute flavor to a beer?

 

[markg388]

I don't know why the OP is even posting (or why I'm posting for that matter), sounds to me like he already has his mind made up and it isn't changing. If dead guy ale actually tastes like a real maibock to you, then who cares what you think about lagers.

 

[remilard]

What I don't quite understand about the theory of lager yeast in malty beers is the claim that they create a cleaner beer, which implies the yeast has less impact on flavor,

I wouldn't say lager yeast have less impact on flavor. Just taste wort some time, any fermentation has a profound impact on flavor. Lager yeast are less fruity than ale yeast. Cold fermentation also results in less evolution of aromatics during fermentation, some of these are hop and malt related and some of these are fermentation related (primarily sulfur compounds). So lagers taste different but not a lower level of flavor, IMO.

You can get the effects of cold fermentation with some ale yeasts but they will still have yeast derived fruitiness. Dead Guy is an excellent example of what a cold fermented ale tastes like. Different than a warm fermented ale and different than a lager but an equally valid and interesting approach.

Some people really like lagers and will go through the hassle of making them (I am in this boat). Some people like really high gravity ales and will go through the hassle of making those (I am not in this boat, my barleywines and RIS will top out at about OG = 1.100 and those can be made with a pretty normal ale process). Some people like sours etc.

Clearly if you are indifferent to gueuze I would not advise that you make lambic for three years and undertake blending. The same applies to lagers.

 

[dvdanny]

No one has mentioned Steam beer yet, thats an example of where lager yeast are used specifically for it's flavor characteristics when fermented at the high end of lager temps.

 

[passedpawn]

I have documented split batches with different lager yeasts. S-23, Wy2007, 34/70, and Wy Bohemian Pils yeast. Believe it or not, I like the S-23 far better. It leaves a spiciness that I love. The other yeasts are fairly clean. This is not a subtle difference.

I'm pretty happy about it, because I make a lot of pilsner and S-23 is cheap, especially when re-using cakes.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Why would I then want to turn around and brew a low flavor pale lager or Pilsner?

Why would you want to brew beer at all?

I always tell friends/family/etc that I don't brew beer to 'have beer'. There are a plethora of good examples of just about every style there is and a ton of other great beers that don't fit into a style. I brew because I enjoy the brewing process. That said, does it really matter if I brew a lager or an ale as long as I enjoy the process and the resultant product?

So, why bother brewing with lager yeast? For me it's the same as the answer to "Why bother brewing at all". Because I enjoy it.

 

[bwomp313]

+1 on Victory Prima Pils

 

[MuddyMo]

No one has mentioned Steam beer yet, thats an example of where lager yeast are used specifically for it's flavor characteristics when fermented at the high end of lager temps.

I mentioned Steam in the OP.

 

[dvdanny]

I mentioned Steam in the OP.

my bad, i swore someone did and just briefed over your OP and saw that you listed a few types of beer but listed Steam later on in the post. That said, steam beer is still a good example of Lager yeast's distinct flavor that you couldn't easily (if at all) replicate in an ale yeast, or any other lager yeast for that matter, my LHBS has made a Marzen from the White Labs SF lager yeast though and it was quite good... makes me wonder if you could use a Marzen yeast to make a Steam beer.

 

[MuddyMo]

So, why bother brewing with lager yeast? For me it's the same as the answer to "Why bother brewing at all". Because I enjoy it.

Yes. In the end, enjoyment of the process is what keeps me coming back. But a large part of the enjoyment is also knowing the WHY behind the process and how different actions ultimately impact the flavor of the beer.

When I wanted to do my first partial mash, I went looking for a simple Amber Ale recipe. Generally, Amber ales recipes do not generate a great deal of excitement, but I found many people on this board raving about Alaskan Brewing's Amber Ale. Later, after I learned what goes into making an Alt beer, it made more sense. That makes me interested in exploring Alt brewing techniques because there appears to be a payoff: a deeper more complex flavor in the final product.

A previous reply talked about how S-23 contributed more spiciness than other lager strains. It is one of the few that actually associated a flavor with a particular lager yeast.

I can understand the motivation, "Why brew a lager? Because I want to see if I can." But I think asking why is an important part of acquiring knowledge.
I hope I never get to the point that I don't enjoy a good debate about various aspects of brewing beer.

 

[waldoar15]

I've been drinking Ales for years and years before I ever started brewing. I never really cared for commercial Lagers, even the craft brewed ones. But, I kind of want to try my hand at making some of my own now for some odd reason.

 

[MuddyMo]

Clearly if you are indifferent to gueuze I would not advise that you make lambic for three years and undertake blending. The same applies to lagers.

Clearly.

 

[Northcalais40]

To answer the original question from my perspective, because my basement is at 50F until mid April. My lovely wife would consider a bubbly fermenter in our pantry to be an imposition.

My guess is that once upon a time a brewer found his brewing spot to be a bit on the cold side, found that his beer was coming out pretty good. Maybe it had a slightly different flavor than the others around. Someone thought "hey lets make this again".

I'm glad that they didn't say "hey lets make our beer exactly the same as everyone else"

Why not pick any beer ingredient at random and say, "why does anyone use crystal malt, I make my Blahdy blah imperial 400ibu without it, its time the rest of you slobs fell in line"

 

[Yooper]

You know, the answer to "Why bother brewing with lager yeast?" might be another question- "Why bother brewing at all?"

I mean, you can buy craft beers, so why brew? I can buy good beer at the store, so why should I brew?

The answer is the same as why I bother brewing lagers. Because I'm a beer geek who can make whatever I want, when I want. There ARE differences in all beers, and tasting them is part of the fun. I can tell Miller from Budweiser, and I can certainly tell a true lager dopplebock over a pseudo-bock. Is a pseudo-lager bad? No, but it's NOT the same. Some people love lagers and make mostly lager styles, while other make only ales. Nothing wrong with that at all, as I think everybody should make what they like.

To dismiss an entire category of beers is silly, though.

 

[Shinglejohn]

[Is]there is a compelling reason to consider home brewing with lager yeast[?]

1)Schwarzbier, Altbier, Marzen and Bock styles, all very flavorful beers traditionally brewed using S. pastorianus.
2) it might be a challenge to duplicate the flavor of Anchor Steam
3)I'm a geek about brewing equipment and love to research brewing chemistry and the history of various styles.

 

[MuddyMo]

To dismiss an entire category of beers is silly, though.

Point taken. I shall go forth and disparage the lager no more.

 

[r2eng]

May I add another point:

Try a proven Porter recipe: split it and use ale yeast in one half (fermented at ales temps), and use a lager yeast in the other half (again, fermented at the proper temps). Compare them and you will clearly see the difference.

And, as many others have said here, experimentation is the whole reason for homebrewing. I have a current experiment fermenting with 1/3 batches: I took a blonde ale recipe and used lager yeast in one, ale in another (WLP001), and Belgian yeast in the other (WLP515). I will end up with 3 completely different beers.

 

[ghpeel]

I've made a very nice sorta-Negra Modelo clone using White Labs Kolsch yeast.

However, I just finished my first keg of lager, a pure Pilsner, and let me tell you, it was heaven in a glass. You get a fantastic crispness with a real lager that a "clean ale" probably won't ever produce. I can't wait to brew another one and I never enjoy BMC beer anymore.

 

[jitteringjr]

Why not pick any beer ingredient at random and say, "why does anyone use crystal malt, I make my Blahdy blah imperial 400ibu without it, its time the rest of you slobs fell in line"

Exactly.

This is something I've been thinking about for awhile. I got into this hobby after discovering there was more to beer than what BMC was offering.

Unless you started home brewing in the early 1980's, that's a silly reason to start the hobby as there are thousands of commercial alternatives out there now.


I use lager yeast about 35% of the time. I am now drinking an Imperial (Baltic) Porter that I brewed using bock yeast that is outstanding. I tried making bocks with ale yeast and after 5 years, I bought a fermentation fridge and it made all the difference. Even with ales the fridge makes a big difference. Try a secondary fermentation as 50F and taste the difference

 

[CaptYesterday]

For the challenge.

I've been doing ales for 3 years. They have become almost easy. Lagers are that final frontier I haven't conquered yet.

BCS Bohemian Pilsner fermenting as we speak with Wyeast 2124. I feel pretty good about it so far.

 

[HoppedIPA]

Boulevards Pils is to compete with Bud Miller and the like that is why it is $5.99 a 6 pack.... Have you Tried their smoke stack series Imperial pils??

Of course Pilsner Urquell is no BMC, but it seems one dimensional to me. But based on what people who have been to Praque tell me, the export version is nothing like the real thing. So I'll concede I may be speaking from ignorance.

I had hoped to be blown away when Boulevard, my hometown brewer, introduced a Pilsner to their regular rotation, but I wasn't.

 

[HoppedIPA]

I would say while not a huge Sam Adams fan the Noble Pils was or is one of their best seasonal beers..! Boulevards is not even close..

I do recall enjoying a bottle of Sam Adams Noble Pils on a hot day at a nearby Mexican place, but the flavor was not very memorable. Similar to my experience with Boulevard Pilsner.

 

[rodneypierce]

I have honestly yet to find a single Boulevard beer that I have liked...

 

[passedpawn]

Prima pils is excellent. Victory can't seem to miss.

 

[HoppedIPA]

I like a few BLVD beers their Tank7, Single Wide IPA, I have enjoyed the Dark Truth, I really enjoy their Irish ale and most recently this one..
http://www.beercankc.com/2010/11/winter-seasonals-part-4.html... so not sure what you have tried maybe all of these but either way its all good... I dont care for their wheat.. Only wheat i really like i have had is Goose island's which is a very clean wheat.. I like their pils better than bud but thats not saying much..lol
so .. Cheers!

I have honestly yet to find a single Boulevard beer that I have liked...

 

[rodneypierce]

I like a few BLVD beers their Tank7, Single Wide IPA, I have enjoyed the Dark Truth, I really enjoy their Irish ale and most recently this one..
http://www.beercankc.com/2010/11/winter-seasonals-part-4.html... so not sure what you have tried maybe all of these but either way its all good... I dont care for their wheat.. Only wheat i really like i have had is Goose island's which is a very clean wheat.. I like their pils better than bud but thats not saying much..lol
so .. Cheers!

I have tried them all, and cant say I like a single one of their beers. I guess the Amber Ale was "ok". But, thats why we have so many different beer brewery's. Everyone likes something different.

 

[HoppedIPA]

thats funny.. actually their Amber is one of my lease favorite of theirs.. Agreed with the everyone likes something different!

I have tried them all, and cant say I like a single one of their beers. I guess the Amber Ale was "ok". But, thats why we have so many different beer brewery's. Everyone likes something different.