Why are Rogue bombers such a rip off??

[wonderbread23]

I buy pricey bombers all the time. If I taste it, and it sucks, then I'll be a bit bummed out (cough cough Southern Tier Mokah) and will likely not make the purchase again. I think this is the mindset of a lot of beer drinkers. Rogue has a lot greater risk of dissappointment at their price point, yet they seem to be doing okay (ie, I don't think they're turning off a lot of buyers from making repeated purchases). They can simply sell less beer than the competition at a higher price and in the end make the same amount of cash.

Some beers may be better values at their relative prices, but if I dig Rogue's Hazelnut Brown and there is nothing else on the market that is nearly as good, I'll cough up the change. They simply have a different business model than some of the other breweries.

 

[superjunior]

I've all but given up on buying beer. my homebrews taste way better and are a lot cheaper to make than anything stone or rogue has to offer at the same price point..

 

[danculwell]

This point might have already been said so sorry if that's the case. I noticed a huge price discrepancy between the 6 pack and the bomber until I noticed that the 6 pack was dead guy ale and the bomber (or maybe 750 ml) was double dead guy ale. That explained the difference. Might be the issue you're having too. Sorry again if this is repeated info.

 

[RogerMcAllen]

What is the price of maintaining a barley field and a hop farm?

A bit of quick math based on numbers I got from various agricultural sites:

Beer:
Barley
[1.3 million spikes of barley/acre] / [21 spikes of barley/bottle] = ~62,000 bottles/acre barley

Hops (using the worst year I could find, with everyone drinking IPAs @ 1lb per 5 gallons)
[1,800 lbs hops/acre] / [0.02 lbs hops/bottle] = 90,000 bottles/acre hops



Wine:
[807 vines/acre] * [40 bunches/vine] * [75 grapes/bunch] / [700 grapes/bottle] = ~4,000 bottles/acre -> ~20,000 servings of wine/acre grapes

Assuming equivalent cost of land, beer uses 1.184 square feet (0.7 barley, 0.484 hops) and wine uses 10.8 square feet a bottle or ~ 2.2 square feet a serving. Therefore it is mathematically proven that wine should cost at least twice as much as beer per serving.

Sources:
http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/aginfo/barleypath/barley&beer.html
http://www.ndbarley.net/malt_barley.html
http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/grapeweb/OGEN/07262006/CropEstimation06.pdf
http://www.wineloverspage.com/wineadvisor/tswa010514.shtml

/no I don't take myself entirely seriously, but this was a pretty interesting exercise

 

[MVKTR2]

This discussion takes me back to the Brewers Association vid about a year ago where all these Brewers, Papazian, etc. are talking about how 'approachable' bier is. Then the whole video (on hosting a tasting I believe) is all upscale in it's appearance and some actually compare it to wine. Which is it? Complex and snooty or flavorful and approachable?

When bier becomes wine... I'm out! Or rather when bier culture becomes wine culture I'm out. As for pricing, remove the tax man and let the free market roll! No way bier should cost more than 1/3rd of wine unless specially treated in barrels, ingredients, etc.

I LOVE certain spirits, Scotch comes to mind. However Dewars is the only thing less than $40 bucks a fifth I drink as my taste dictate it, most of what I prefer is over $55. Thus I purchase 1/5th of spirits about every 24 months. Same with bourbon, wine, etc. First I don't have the $$$ and second at some point it becomes a moral issue 'FOR ME' (not saying it should be for anyone else) as to spending money rather than investing it into something worthwhile like helping people etc.

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[Austinhomebrew]

It is about what the beverage is worth not what you are willing to pay. Anyone that makes their own beer is going to have a different perspective on what beer is worth.

A masterpiece painting is only worth the price of the paint and the canvas.
Musicians should write and perform music for free.
I can make my own coffee at home for pennies.
I will do anything for a discount.

Think of all the beers you miss out on because you buy beer by price. To me it is like buying a car by the color.

Anyone with me?

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

A bit of quick math based on numbers I got from various agricultural sites:

Beer:
Barley
[1.3 million spikes of barley/acre] / [21 spikes of barley/bottle] = ~62,000 bottles/acre barley

Hops (using the worst year I could find, with everyone drinking IPAs @ 1lb per 5 gallons)
[1,800 lbs hops/acre] / [0.02 lbs hops/bottle] = 90,000 bottles/acre hops



Wine:
[807 vines/acre] * [40 bunches/vine] * [75 grapes/bunch] / [700 grapes/bottle] = ~4,000 bottles/acre -> ~20,000 servings of wine/acre grapes

Assuming equivalent cost of land, beer uses 1.184 square feet (0.7 barley, 0.484 hops) and wine uses 10.8 square feet a bottle or ~ 2.2 square feet a serving. Therefore it is mathematically proven that wine should cost at least twice as much as beer per serving.

Sources:
http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/aginfo/barleypath/barley&beer.html
http://www.ndbarley.net/malt_barley.html
http://www.oardc.ohio-state.edu/grapeweb/OGEN/07262006/CropEstimation06.pdf
http://www.wineloverspage.com/wineadvisor/tswa010514.shtml

/no I don't take myself entirely seriously, but this was a pretty interesting exercise

Well played, sir. Well played.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

This discussion takes me back to the Brewers Association vid about a year ago where all these Brewers, Papazian, etc. are talking about how 'approachable' bier is. Then the whole video (on hosting a tasting I believe) is all upscale in it's appearance and some actually compare it to wine. Which is it? Complex and snooty or flavorful and approachable?

When bier becomes wine... I'm out! Or rather when bier culture becomes wine culture I'm out. As for pricing, remove the tax man and let the free market roll! No way bier should cost more than 1/3rd of wine unless specially treated in barrels, ingredients, etc.

I LOVE certain spirits, Scotch comes to mind. However Dewars is the only thing less than $40 bucks a fifth I drink as my taste dictate it, most of what I prefer is over $55. Thus I purchase 1/5th of spirits about every 24 months. Same with bourbon, wine, etc. First I don't have the $$$ and second at some point it becomes a moral issue 'FOR ME' (not saying it should be for anyone else) as to spending money rather than investing it into something worthwhile like helping people etc.

Schlante,
Phillip

I appriciate you saying that the more expensive spirits are worth it. IMHO the brewer is a chef not a cook. I pay for inspiration and unique beers because I should. I value the talent that brought the creation to market.

You pay more for exceptional food as opposed to going to the Sizzler for all you can eat.

I could go to the $3.99 all you can eat pizza joint but I prefer a Chicago style pizza.

Forrest

 

[lamarguy]

Think of all the beers you miss out on because you buy beer by price. To me it is like buying a car by the color.

Think of all the cars I haven't owned because of "price".

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Think of all the cars I haven't owned because of "price".

Yes, but the cars you had to choose from in your price range were not chosen by color. You know what I am saying

I don't drive a Mercedes because they don't have the color I like.

:cross:

 

[klyph]

Like I said, I tried them, at a sale price, and they were worth it. But having experienced them, I now know they aren't worth the full price. I guess it's like test driving a high end car and being disappointed by its performance, even though it performs much better than your daily driver.

 

[riverfrontbrewer]

It is about what the beverage is worth not what you are willing to pay.
Anyone with me?

Forrest

NO definitely not with you...being a business owner you should prob understand that the sentence quoted above is a contradiction. ANYTHING in the market place is WORTH what someone is willing to PAY.

And as you stated earlier that Rogue should drop its advertising so that they can lower prices, can you set the standard for this advertiseless business model?

 

[Austinhomebrew]

And as you stated earlier that Rogue should drop its advertising so that they can lower prices, can you set the standard for this advertiseless business model?

I already do. I don't advertise. Never really have in the last 10 years. It allows me to give free shipping away.

Oops, I just advertised. But at no cost to the consumer.

Forrest

 

[EdWort]

It is about what the beverage is worth not what you are willing to pay.

Actually, it's what folks are willing to pay that determines a beverages worth.

As more folks balk at paying high prices, the price of the beer will come down, if that is, they wish to sell it.

Supply & demand determine price (along with the pesky government taxes that get in the way).

 

[Ludovico]

In Canada, Rogue 750ml are $10 each and American craftbeer singles are $4.50+... quit complaining

 

[Austinhomebrew]

Actually, it's what folks are willing to pay that determines a beverages worth.

As more folks balk at paying high prices, the price of the beer will come down, if that is, they wish to sell it.

Supply & demand determine price (along with the pesky government taxes that get in the way).

Not really. People can say I am not going to pay that much for a Mercedes. Then they just don't get one. Rolex doesn't say "Damn, have you seen Timex sales figures? We better lower our price drastically. The people have spoken."

Wine is priced at what the vinyard wants to price it at not what people say its worth. They will always find enough people to buy it for what they want to charge.

Breweries are plagued with low priced beer on the market so people think they shouldn't pay for quality.

The theory of supply and demand doesn't work for everything no matter how much you want it to.

A 2 liter bottle of Coke at the grocery store sells for $1.59. The bottle costs Coke more than the soda. Are people not going to buy it when they find out how much profit there is? Are they going to start trying to make their own Coke? No, they are going to pay it. It doesn't matter that the house brand of soda is 99 cents. People pay more because they value that Coke tastes better than Sam's Choice soda.

Forrest

Here is some bottled water for $40 a bottle. People buy it. He decided how much it sells for. It's water. Its $40.



Bling h2o – $40+ per 750 ml bottle


Hollywood writer-producer Kevin G. Boyd tapped into the bottled water market with an image approach. His water, Bling h2o, has been spotted in the hands of numerous celebrities and even at awards ceremonies like the Emmy’s, Grammy’s, and the MTV Video Music Awards.

The water is bottled in Dandridge, Tennessee, probably the least notable quality of the most expensive bottled water. Boyd’s approach to the bottled water market is as extreme as the limited edition bottles themselves. They come frosted, corked, and boasting hand-applied Swarovski crystal. Bling H20 boasts that it has won the gold medal at the Berkely Springs International Water Tasting Festival with its nine-step purification process. If you are a water elitist, be prepared to spend $40-60 for a 750ml bottle. If you are buying your expensive bottled water at a club, be prepared to spend more.

 

[EdWort]

Not really. People can say I am not going to pay that much for a Mercedes. Then they just don't get one. Rolex doesn't say "Damn, have you seen Timex sales figures? We better lower our price drastically. The people have spoken.".

So what happens when you have run out of people willing to pay your price?

Do retailers sit on it, keeping capital tied up on stagnant inventory?

Nope, it gets marked down so it will move. It's no different than any retailer wanting to move inventory that does not sell. They lower the price and keep lowering it till someone decides to want it more than they want the dollars in their wallet.

Niche markets are great if you can tap them with a product and no competition willing to sell it for less.

 

[olllllo]

There is definitely a movement in the craft beer world to limit production on certain beers to create exclusivity and buzz.

That's probably not so true with Rogue. I think that has as much to do with the OP being in TN and that perhaps being a newer market for Rogue than anything else.

 

[NorCalAngler]

Our perspective is too skewed to have a general population view of the craft beer market. We know how much the ingredients cost and we know how much labor/time is involved in the production of these beers. The difference maker in discussing beer vs. other products like the Mercedes mentioned above is we have access to all the ingredients and equipment necessary to if not duplicate the beer, get close enough to be satisfied. Lets see you try to clone that S550 AMG.

At the end of the day Rogue is going to charge what the market will bear above their gross cost to get it on the shelf. If their beer is priced too high it sits on the shelf and the retailer is unlikely to reorder at the same price if/when they get rid of the last bottle.

 

[jbrookeiv]

It is about what the beverage is worth not what you are willing to pay. Anyone that makes their own beer is going to have a different perspective on what beer is worth.

A masterpiece painting is only worth the price of the paint and the canvas.
Musicians should write and perform music for free.
I can make my own coffee at home for pennies.
I will do anything for a discount.

Think of all the beers you miss out on because you buy beer by price. To me it is like buying a car by the color.

Anyone with me?

Forrest

I am. I completely agree with your stance, Forrest. I regularly purchase bombers that cost ~$10 or more. If I enjoy that bomber, I feel as though I have gotten my money's worth.

I think you can compare beer directly to wine. Compare the flavor on a $10 bottle of wine and a $10 bomber and tell me which one is more flavorful and well made. Generally, the bomber is going to win.

I drink what I enjoy, and unfortunately (or fortunately), expensive beer is usually more flavorful. I tend to enjoy IIPAs, RISs, etc. Also, I love to see all the new, interesting beers popping up and will generally try them.

At the end of the day, does it matter? Buy what you like and enjoy it.

 

[Zamial]

Our perspective is too skewed to have a general population view of the craft beer market. We know how much the ingredients cost and we know how much labor/time is involved in the production of these beers. The difference maker in discussing beer vs. other products like the Mercedes mentioned above is we have access to all the ingredients and equipment necessary to if not duplicate the beer, get close enough to be satisfied. Lets see you try to clone that S550 AMG.

I agree. This still is not including the obvious things like the neat story/description on the back of the Stone or the real ingredients list + food pairing info on Rogue.

Then lets look at the label, painted on and some are pretty neat looking as far as the "art" goes. I turn (or try to) all these bomber glasses into pint-ish glasses. I get TONS of complements on them. (The how to is in the DIY section.) So, I do get the max "bang for the buck" and even if I did not how many people just rinse them out and keep them for decoration? I bet quite a few...

 

[humann_brewing]

well, you are across the country from where it is made. rogue 6/packs are $10 here and bombers are anywhere from 4-6 and the imperials are obviously more. I do know when I visit Oregon, they are significantly cheaper close to the source.

 

[mysteryberto]

I've been to the Rogue Brewery in Newport and in the gift shop bombers were $4.75 if I remember correctly. Rogue and Stone six packs are around $10 here. I live in Oregon and most somewhat local beers Bridgeport,Widmer,Deschutes, Sierra Nevada are around $6.48 to $8 a six pack.

Almost all the bombers I see are around $4.50-5 each. I find the best way to try new beers is to go to beer festivals. I've tried beers at festivals that go for $10+ a 22oz that I didn't like at all.

 

[Austin_]

The how to is in the DIY section.:

Do you have a thread title or direct link? I tried searching and couldn't find it.

 

[jbrookeiv]

Do you have a thread title or direct link? I tried searching and couldn't find it.

+1

 

[Austinhomebrew]

So what happens when you have run out of people willing to pay your price?

Do retailers sit on it, keeping capital tied up on stagnant inventory?

Nope, it gets marked down so it will move. It's no different than any retailer wanting to move inventory that does not sell. They lower the price and keep lowering it till someone decides to want it more than they want the dollars in their wallet.

Niche markets are great if you can tap them with a product and no competition willing to sell it for less.

You don't run out of people willing to pay the price because you manufacture or order to meet the need which will always be there.

If you don't over manufacture or order too much there is not an inventory issue. Problem solved.

One brewery made a top of the line malt liquor and it came with its own paper sack. The bottles sold for $7.99 per 40oz. They were sold before they were even made. The media got all pc and wanted to imply that only poor people drink malt liquor and that they were charging too much. It was funny to see the media make a sweeping generalization without saying it directly.

If you only manufacture to demand you can charge what you want. Rogue can charge what they charge because they make beer to demand. Demand will always increase for them. No need to lower price.

Forrest

 

[Austinhomebrew]

At the end of the day Rogue is going to charge what the market will bear above their gross cost to get it on the shelf. If their beer is priced too high it sits on the shelf and the retailer is unlikely to reorder at the same price if/when they get rid of the last bottle.

If their beer is priced too high, I would say apparently this city doesn't appreciate the beer. So, lets pull out of that city and sell it over here in the neighboring town because they can't get enough. We keep selling out in that town.

No need to lower the price.

The too much supply / have to lower the price idea relies on a massive surplus. This is not going to happen with a brewery if they are smart. I would bet they are close to capacity.

There is a local brewery that has an $8 12 oz bottle. They can't make enough.

Forrest

 

[humann_brewing]

If their beer is priced too high, I would say apparently this city doesn't appreciate the beer. So, lets pull out of that city and sell it over here in the neighboring town because they can't get enough. We keep selling out in that town.

No need to lower the price.

The too much supply / have to lower the price idea relies on a massive surplus. This is not going to happen with a brewery if they are smart. I would bet they are close to capacity.

There is a local brewery that has an $8 12 oz bottle. They can't make enough.

Forrest

thanks for the economics lesson

 

[Austinhomebrew]

thanks for the economics lesson

By your smiley face , you are probably saying that I am stating the obvious. I thought it was obvious too.

Forrest

 

[Zamial]

Here is that link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/diy-tumbler-beer-bottles-189996/

Sry about the delay I am at "work"....