Who remembers Zima and how do I go about making it?

[olllllo]

I never said don't do it. I'm just putting out there what Zima is. Knowing exactly what you are trying to make may help you decide if you want to make it at all.

I think I basically said the same thing.

 

[mr x]

Yes you most likely did. You just sorta lost me at the crust.lol

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

They can call it whatever they want for marketing purposes. It is fermented malt beverage that has the color and flavor stripped from it. That makes it vodka cut down with water. Then add some flavour after the filtering.

So basically, if you take vodka, carbonated water, and some lemon/lime type flavouring, you will make 'classic' Zima.

I believe you are missing the point of the exercise. It is an experiment, like in high school science. Also, malternatives don't really taste like mixed drinks.

If one could make a "good" malternative, I am sure you would impress even the skeptics. It is an interesting task to undertake, and a humorous one. I would suggest a malternative swap, but I don't think I will have the time to do this one.

 

[Revvy]

If one could make a "good" malternative, I am sure you would impress even the skeptics.

Malternative...I like it! It's even better than "spork."

Speaking of challenges, didn't a bunch of hbt'ers decide they were going to attempt to brew a Bud clone? I wonder if it ever happened.

 

[olllllo]

Yes you most likely did. You just sorta lost me at the crust.lol

They make it so there is no crust. Regular people would use bread and cut off the crusts and not figure out how to make crustless bread.

 

[mr x]

It is an experiment, and I've done more than my share of questionable exercises as well. It would certainly be a learning experience at the least. But having done a fair bit of carbon/charcoal filtering, this will involve a fair bit of extra money/time and I'm not certain you will be able to reproduce how it is done in the industrial world. But go ahead, I'm curious myself if you can do it.

 

[Chriso]

Forget the vodka. We're brainstorming.

I don't think filtering Rolling Rock would get us far because RR is hoppier than Miller Lite. What's paler than RR or Miller Lite? Hm....

BUD LIGHT!

Seriously though I think I'm going to approach this from the Light American Lager standpoint, lots of rice syrup solids, probably a little bit of simple dextrose to keep the color down. Purify/filter/something and keg. I'm thinking lemonade concentrate for flavoring --- I would use the "Lemon Lime Extract" but I'm trying to keep this in a "prototype" mode, not commit major funds to this until I know that I'm onto a solid idea... And then I'm thinking keg, force carb, and then bottle a couple in clear Corona bottles with the paint removed.

I smell a Malternative swap brewing! (Maybe not for 4-5 months though so we can make multiple attempts if needed)

I like this idea more and more, Donasay. I suspect you'll hear more from me on this matter sometime soon. I just need to keep wrapping my brain around it.

 

[olllllo]

I am asking and I think what x is asking is this:
Are you trying to replicate their process and results be damned?
-or-
Are you trying to get results and process be damned?

Yes, both, I know. But in my estimation these are mutually exclusive.

I won't be disappointed if you prove me wrong.

 

[mr x]

A suggestion if you plan to go ahead with this: fully understand the effects of carbon and charcoal filtering before you start. At the very least, I think you will end up with a product you can drink without cringing. Good luck.

 

[the_bird]

You know, I'd be down with making this into an HBT challenge. Why not? It'd be a learning exercise. I've never mashed rice, for example. How high a percentage of rice could I use for my fermentables, for example? If I wanted to go higher than 50%, could I just add some alpha amalyse to make up for not having a lot of enzymatic malt? Don't potatoes ferment out pretty cleanly as well? What other types of starches could be used to form a base? What's the best way of flavoring the beverage? What about adding some acid blend or something like that to the end product to bring out the tartness?

Plus, my wife LOVES these damn things... I could get her nice and liquored up on homebrew.

 

[Chriso]

What other types of starches could be used to form a base?

When you said that, I immediately thought of pasta.

We could call it "Gooch Hooch"!

 

[the_bird]

What about a combination of domestic 2-row, wheat malt (maybe 25% each) and rice (50%) to form the fermentables? Keep fermentation temperatures low to limit esters and any fusel production. Use a real clean yeast, then filter the hell out of the end product.

 

[Foovanadil]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zima

"Zima is a lightly-carbonated alcopop beverage made by the Coors Brewing Company"

So ingredients include Rocky Mountain piss water.

 

[mr x]

Here's a little bit of info from the Alcopop wiki:

"While the alcohol content of flavored malt beverages is similar to that of most traditional malt beverages, the alcohol in many of them is derived primarily from the distilled spirits component of the added flavors rather than from fermentation." (70 Fed. Reg. 194 et seq. ( January 3, 2005).)

It seems like a quote from a legit source. The more I read, the more shady the concept of Flavored Malt Beverages seem to be.

 

[Revvy]

What about a combination of domestic 2-row, wheat malt (maybe 25% each) and rice (50%) to form the fermentables? Keep fermentation temperatures low to limit esters and any fusel production. Use a real clean yeast, then filter the hell out of the end product.

I've just looked at a few Zima sites...They keep referring to it as a Malt beverage...I'm thinking for the sake of the challenge that (and semantics ) Malt Has to predominate in the ingredients in order to be considered a malt beverage.

If rice is in the majority than it's not a Malt beverage is it?

Can it be done with a ratio of 2/3 malt to 1/3 rice?

I now declare myself the reich-marshal of ZIMAheitsgebot!

 

[JustDave]

I'm just impressed that after 55 posts in a Zima thread, nobody has used the phrase "Zomething different".

 

[the_bird]

I've just looked at a few Zima sites...They keep referring to it as a Malt beverage...I'm thinking for the sake of the challenge that (and semantics ) Malt Has to predominate in the ingredients in order to be considered a malt beverage.

If rice is in the majority than it's not a Malt beverage is it?

Can it be done with a ratio of 2/3 malt to 1/3 rice?

I now declare myself the reich-marshal of ZIMAheitsgebot!

I'm going to disagree with your semantic interpretation. My impression of these kinds of beverages - and I can't tell you specifically where this arose from - was that the "malt" component of it was very small.

Actually, here's a thread with some info...

 

[mr x]

That's interesting, and pretty much what I expected. I'm curious if these guys (Zima) are using malt in an extremely small proportion to the final volume and using distilled spirits in the flavorings to up the alcohol. An 'end around' to using straight up distilled spirits. Beat the tax man.

 

[olllllo]

The minimum malt content is defined legally somewhere.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

It would seem as though malted barley must be "the primary ingredient" to be considered a malt beverage. So the malt must make up the largest percentage of the grain bill. 55% malt, 45% rice

 

[the_bird]

Who else is up for making this a challenge?

I'll throw down, and define one rule; 50% malt (including wheat, etc.) Flavor it, backsweeten, whatever you think is appropriate. Target Zima if you want, or whatever "malternative" your SWMBO likes to drink to excess.

We'll take a crack at making something drinkable, and do a swap in a couple months.

 

[Revvy]

I'm going to disagree with your semantic interpretation. My impression of these kinds of beverages - and I can't tell you specifically where this arose from - was that the "malt" component of it was very small.

Actually, here's a thread with some info...

Thanks for the link....

Uh...you mean you read other forums besides ours???? You're like the uber hbt'er

 

[Revvy]

I'll throw down, and define one rule; 50% malt (including wheat, etc.) Flavor it, backsweeten, whatever you think is appropriate.
We'll take a crack at making something drinkable, and do a swap in a couple months.

So are you considering rice a malt or an adjunct? I think 50% malt is what I was trying to say earlier.

I volunteer to be a non brewing, impartial taste tester....(I have a cast iron stomach)

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I think if we do this challenge, we should all agree on a scorecard that could be filled out by our SWMBOs. They review the swap entrants and rate them. After all, who here is really going to be drinking the stuff

 

[the_bird]

Rice is an adjunct.

50% of the recipe must be malted barley, wheat, or oats.

 

[Klainmeister]

Gah!!! If I was back in the States I'd be so down for this challenge! It's hilarious guys, and oddly challenging. I started reading this thread a few hours ago and as I'm walking around all i am thinking about is adjuncts, flavorings and temps....got my wheels-a-turning.

 

[olllllo]

I consider this whole thing to be a complete failure unless I see a Bacon Zima attempt.

 

[c.n.budz]

I consider this whole thing to be a complete failure unless I see a Bacon Zima attempt.

Zacon? Bima?

 

[the_bird]

Don't tempt me - I'll brew a rauchzima!

Actually, that sounds like something you'd have to get a Rx for...

 

[Revvy]

I now hate this thread.....I suddenly am tempted to try one of them there Zima's...(I'll have to go into a different liquor store...If I go in to my usual place they'll revoke my real beer buying privaleges, and relegate me to the MBC beer cooler.)

I remember trying them when they first came out and the only thing cool about them was the groove on the bottles...I noticed they don't even make "Plain" Zima anymore and they replaced the original bottle with wine cooler type ones...

MUST RESIST THE URGE....

 

[Donasay]

Malternative...I like it! It's even better than "spork."

Speaking of challenges, didn't a bunch of hbt'ers decide they were going to attempt to brew a Bud clone? I wonder if it ever happened.

Revvy, I have brewed a bud clone, it came out well. I have also done miller lite and it came out tasting like miller light. I can lager fairly consistently at this point and to prove it I can point at my kegerator which at this point holds a pilsner urquel clone. As of right now I can proudly say that lagering is a skill in my arsenal.

 

[AFAJ Brew Guy]

Donasay, after reading this whole thread, I think you have created a monster. Hell even I would like to try it, but I don't do AG yet so it would definitely be an effort in futility.

Like I said before, I wish, and the rest of you folk the best of luck.

Prost!

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, I have brewed a bud clone, it came out well. I have also done miller lite and it came out tasting like miller light. I can lager fairly consistently at this point and to prove it I can point at my kegerator which at this point holds a pilsner urquel clone. As of right now I can proudly say that lagering is a skill in my arsenal.

I'm impressed!!!

 

[Moonshae]

If sake can be fermented to clear from rice, I would think it's possible to make a malt beverage the same way...try adding the (steamed, thus sanitized) rice in stages, like in sake, rather than all the grain at once. Maybe finish with a sake yeast to clear the rest up if necessary? Follow with some citrus flavoring, and carb.

 

[mr x]

I don't do AG yet so it would definitely be an effort in futility.

Why would you say that? This is one project that is taylor made for extract brewers.

 

[Revvy]

Why would you say that? This is one project that is taylor made for extract brewers.

Yeah i was thinking that using the lightest DME (extra light pilsen perhaps?) would be the best way to go.....

 

[AFAJ Brew Guy]

Why would you say that? This is one project that is taylor made for extract brewers.

Well I was thinking more of the rice. I have never used rice before and from what I have read, if memory serves me right and I could be dead wrong, doesn't rice have to be mashed?

 

[mr x]

You can buy rice syrup/extract that will work fine. I'd say you may even get away with a fair bit of corn sugar. Depending on what you expect to accomplish.

 

[Donasay]

I have been doing some research, on malternatives and it appears that the government defines malt beverages as such:

Malt beverage. A beverage made by the alcoholic fermentation of an infusion or decoction, or combination of both, in potable brewing water, of malted barley with hops, or their parts, or their products, and with or without other malted cereals, and with or without the addition of unmalted or prepared cereals, other carbohydrates or products prepared therefrom, and with or without the addition of carbon dioxide, and with or without other wholesome products suitable for human food consumption. Standards applying to the use of processing methods and flavors in malt beverage production appear in §7.11.

(7) Any statement, design, device, or representation that tends to create a false or misleading impression that the malt beverage contains distilled spirits or is a distilled spirits product. This paragraph does not prohibit the following on malt beverage labels:

(i) A truthful and accurate statement of alcohol content, in conformity with §7.71;

(ii) The use of a brand name of a distilled spirits product as a malt beverage brand name, provided that the overall label does not present a misleading impression about the identity of the product; or

(iii) The use of a cocktail name as a brand name or fanciful name of a malt beverage, provided that the overall label does not present a misleading impression about the identity of the product.

So it appears that it is illegal to put distilled spirits in a "Malt Beverage" and that all of those smirinoff drinks are made with malts and cerials not back filling with some vodka and flavorings. Interesting to note that they consider a malt beverage anything made with cerials, so I guess the overall ratios don't matter. Anyway the website for this is here.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...5;view=text;node=27:1.0.1.1.5;idno=27;cc=ecfr

 

[AFAJ Brew Guy]

You can buy rice syrup/extract that will work fine. I'd say you may even get away with a fair bit of corn sugar. Depending on what you expect to accomplish.

And thats why I love HBT, you learn something new with just about every post. Thanks! We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread. I am off to think about this...