Who remembers Zima and how do I go about making it?

[mr x]

That is why I mentioned it in the beer forum, it is technically a beer, and all of those smirinoff drinks are technically "Malt beverages" as it is illegal to sell pre mixed drinks mixed with hard liquor, so it is a stretch but those are almost beer as well.

You are just using you're malt as a low alcohol base, and then filtering out any flavour and color. I don't see much sense in going through the trouble to do this at home. You'd be better off with a bottle of vodka and 7-up.

 

[Revvy]

You are just using you're malt as a low alcohol base, and then filtering out any flavour and color. I don't see much sense in going through the trouble to do this at home. You'd be better off with a bottle of vodka and 7-up.

I think he pretty much answered the "why he's doing it" here...

I really don't like zima either, it is more of a can I make this kind of a thing for me. I want to push the boundary's and understand how to get stuff like this done. It goes along with that time I made a miller lite clone, that actually tasted like miller light. I actually have lagering down now, so beers like that (although a waste of time and resources, are challenging to make) and I like the challenge of making weird stuff.

As they say anyone can make a porter and not f it up to badly, who here can make zima?

It's like some of the people here trying to make bud...not the n00bs, the serious brewers who want a challenge of making something extreemly difficult. I applaud him wanting to experiment and stretch himself...Plus if he's successful he'll have the chicks eating out of his hand! (Chicks dig fizzy booze dontja know)

 

[mr x]

I think he pretty much answered the "why he's doing it" here...

Just helping clarify what he's doing. He's making low strength vodka and back adding flavour.

 

[Beerthoven]

Revvy +1.

Donasay - Ignore the nay-sayers and go for it if that's what you want to do.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I good tester experiment may be to try filtering a miller lite with a activated brita filter. This may give you an idea of the color change and flavor profile, you can hope for. I think you could brew a less flavorful and more dry beer than ML rolleyes:) with the rice/suger, but this could be a cheap experiment to use as a gauge.

 

[Chriso]

Coming out of the bottle, in a big arc, is a list of the months of the year... click one, it pops up days, then years...

Then maybe I just have a hard time reading - either in arcs or in yellow-on-green text. I used the "arc based" navigation, I was musing that it was very difficult to control your selection USING the arcs. But I also count keyboard-navigability as a criteria, even though most people use mice, so they lost points there too. ANYWHO, back to beer:

I am very tempted to accept your challenge, Donasay, and try to reproduce this myself. I'm no stranger to Zima, I never minded it back in "the day" and I would surely find SOME way to drink 5gal of it if I brewed it. Let me think and plot for a couple of days, but we might just be competing against each other to see who can make the best Zima-clone-esque brew.

 

[mr x]

Revvy +1.

Donasay - Ignore the nay-sayers and go for it if that's what you want to do.

I never said don't do it. I'm just putting out there what Zima is. Knowing exactly what you are trying to make may help you decide if you want to make it at all.

 

[Revvy]

I good tester experiment may be to try filtering a miller lite with a activated brita filter. This may give you an idea of the color change and flavor profile, you can hope for. I think you could brew a less flavorful and more dry beer than ML rolleyes:) with the rice/suger, but this could be a cheap experiment to use as a gauge.

Isn't ML still too dark? What's the lightest light lager on the market today in terms of srm's? Isn't rolling rock nearly clear? I can't recall...

Maybe use the lightest one as a control, and miller light...Let's say it takes 5 progressive filterings with smaller micron filters to get miller light to match rolling rock...Then how low can you take the rolling rock, running IT through the same progression of filters...

Also, what grain has the lightest lovibond? For all intents and purposes this still has to qualify as a malt beverage...so the grain to rice ratio should still be higher.

 

[Revvy]

I never said don't do it. I'm just putting out there what Zima is. Knowing exactly what you are trying to make may help you decide if you want to make it at all.

If you look earlier on this thread, Zima it is actually defined as an "unhopped beer."

 

[mr x]

If you look earlier on this thread, Zima it is actually defined as an "unhopped beer."

They can call it whatever they want for marketing purposes. It is fermented malt beverage that has the color and flavor stripped from it. That makes it vodka cut down with water. Then add some flavour after the filtering.

So basically, if you take vodka, carbonated water, and some lemon/lime type flavouring, you will make 'classic' Zima.

 

[olllllo]

I never said don't do it. I'm just putting out there what Zima is. Knowing exactly what you are trying to make may help you decide if you want to make it at all.

I think I basically said the same thing.

 

[mr x]

Yes you most likely did. You just sorta lost me at the crust.lol

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

They can call it whatever they want for marketing purposes. It is fermented malt beverage that has the color and flavor stripped from it. That makes it vodka cut down with water. Then add some flavour after the filtering.

So basically, if you take vodka, carbonated water, and some lemon/lime type flavouring, you will make 'classic' Zima.

I believe you are missing the point of the exercise. It is an experiment, like in high school science. Also, malternatives don't really taste like mixed drinks.

If one could make a "good" malternative, I am sure you would impress even the skeptics. It is an interesting task to undertake, and a humorous one. I would suggest a malternative swap, but I don't think I will have the time to do this one.

 

[Revvy]

If one could make a "good" malternative, I am sure you would impress even the skeptics.

Malternative...I like it! It's even better than "spork."

Speaking of challenges, didn't a bunch of hbt'ers decide they were going to attempt to brew a Bud clone? I wonder if it ever happened.

 

[olllllo]

Yes you most likely did. You just sorta lost me at the crust.lol

They make it so there is no crust. Regular people would use bread and cut off the crusts and not figure out how to make crustless bread.

 

[mr x]

It is an experiment, and I've done more than my share of questionable exercises as well. It would certainly be a learning experience at the least. But having done a fair bit of carbon/charcoal filtering, this will involve a fair bit of extra money/time and I'm not certain you will be able to reproduce how it is done in the industrial world. But go ahead, I'm curious myself if you can do it.

 

[Chriso]

Forget the vodka. We're brainstorming.

I don't think filtering Rolling Rock would get us far because RR is hoppier than Miller Lite. What's paler than RR or Miller Lite? Hm....

BUD LIGHT!

Seriously though I think I'm going to approach this from the Light American Lager standpoint, lots of rice syrup solids, probably a little bit of simple dextrose to keep the color down. Purify/filter/something and keg. I'm thinking lemonade concentrate for flavoring --- I would use the "Lemon Lime Extract" but I'm trying to keep this in a "prototype" mode, not commit major funds to this until I know that I'm onto a solid idea... And then I'm thinking keg, force carb, and then bottle a couple in clear Corona bottles with the paint removed.

I smell a Malternative swap brewing! (Maybe not for 4-5 months though so we can make multiple attempts if needed)

I like this idea more and more, Donasay. I suspect you'll hear more from me on this matter sometime soon. I just need to keep wrapping my brain around it.

 

[olllllo]

I am asking and I think what x is asking is this:
Are you trying to replicate their process and results be damned?
-or-
Are you trying to get results and process be damned?

Yes, both, I know. But in my estimation these are mutually exclusive.

I won't be disappointed if you prove me wrong.

 

[mr x]

A suggestion if you plan to go ahead with this: fully understand the effects of carbon and charcoal filtering before you start. At the very least, I think you will end up with a product you can drink without cringing. Good luck.

 

[the_bird]

You know, I'd be down with making this into an HBT challenge. Why not? It'd be a learning exercise. I've never mashed rice, for example. How high a percentage of rice could I use for my fermentables, for example? If I wanted to go higher than 50%, could I just add some alpha amalyse to make up for not having a lot of enzymatic malt? Don't potatoes ferment out pretty cleanly as well? What other types of starches could be used to form a base? What's the best way of flavoring the beverage? What about adding some acid blend or something like that to the end product to bring out the tartness?

Plus, my wife LOVES these damn things... I could get her nice and liquored up on homebrew.

 

[Chriso]

What other types of starches could be used to form a base?

When you said that, I immediately thought of pasta.

We could call it "Gooch Hooch"!

 

[the_bird]

What about a combination of domestic 2-row, wheat malt (maybe 25% each) and rice (50%) to form the fermentables? Keep fermentation temperatures low to limit esters and any fusel production. Use a real clean yeast, then filter the hell out of the end product.

 

[Foovanadil]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zima

"Zima is a lightly-carbonated alcopop beverage made by the Coors Brewing Company"

So ingredients include Rocky Mountain piss water.

 

[mr x]

Here's a little bit of info from the Alcopop wiki:

"While the alcohol content of flavored malt beverages is similar to that of most traditional malt beverages, the alcohol in many of them is derived primarily from the distilled spirits component of the added flavors rather than from fermentation." (70 Fed. Reg. 194 et seq. ( January 3, 2005).)

It seems like a quote from a legit source. The more I read, the more shady the concept of Flavored Malt Beverages seem to be.

 

[Revvy]

What about a combination of domestic 2-row, wheat malt (maybe 25% each) and rice (50%) to form the fermentables? Keep fermentation temperatures low to limit esters and any fusel production. Use a real clean yeast, then filter the hell out of the end product.

I've just looked at a few Zima sites...They keep referring to it as a Malt beverage...I'm thinking for the sake of the challenge that (and semantics ) Malt Has to predominate in the ingredients in order to be considered a malt beverage.

If rice is in the majority than it's not a Malt beverage is it?

Can it be done with a ratio of 2/3 malt to 1/3 rice?

I now declare myself the reich-marshal of ZIMAheitsgebot!

 

[JustDave]

I'm just impressed that after 55 posts in a Zima thread, nobody has used the phrase "Zomething different".

 

[the_bird]

I've just looked at a few Zima sites...They keep referring to it as a Malt beverage...I'm thinking for the sake of the challenge that (and semantics ) Malt Has to predominate in the ingredients in order to be considered a malt beverage.

If rice is in the majority than it's not a Malt beverage is it?

Can it be done with a ratio of 2/3 malt to 1/3 rice?

I now declare myself the reich-marshal of ZIMAheitsgebot!

I'm going to disagree with your semantic interpretation. My impression of these kinds of beverages - and I can't tell you specifically where this arose from - was that the "malt" component of it was very small.

Actually, here's a thread with some info...

 

[mr x]

That's interesting, and pretty much what I expected. I'm curious if these guys (Zima) are using malt in an extremely small proportion to the final volume and using distilled spirits in the flavorings to up the alcohol. An 'end around' to using straight up distilled spirits. Beat the tax man.

 

[olllllo]

The minimum malt content is defined legally somewhere.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

It would seem as though malted barley must be "the primary ingredient" to be considered a malt beverage. So the malt must make up the largest percentage of the grain bill. 55% malt, 45% rice