White Rajah Clone

[BrunstuckyJoe]

That's why I guessed the summit in the dry hop.....more of a citrus/tangerine taste that way. Seems the longer the boil with it, the more grassier the taste....

 

[rjschroed]

The other thing I was considering for hops:
1.60 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 41.2 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 18.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [11.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 11.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 5.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
3.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Summit [17.00 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

Thinking about it more, I'm probably more comfortable with it like this

 

[sauce]

As for malt, one base malt, one crystal type malt, one "specialty" malt and one non malt.

My guess would be 2 row, c-20, cara-pils and dextrose or flaked wheat.
BTW, I'm having a blast with this.

ok, will give ya the Carapils....still not close on the "specialty" malt...your close on the non malt.

As for the hops, I like hop blends that use the same basic percentages for all the flavor/aroma additions...figure the percentage of each hop then its just about how many and when for the hop additions.

 

[Jrod]

2 Row
Carapils
Honey Malt (Brumalt)
Flaked Maize

Columbus for bittering maybe as a first wort hopping.
My guess is that the rest of the additions are the same proportions and the occur in the last 20 minutes (20, 10, 5, Flame Out, and Dry Hop). Because Citra is a large part of this beer and they needed to cut it with Nelson and because it has already been stated that there is a small percentage of Summit I would propose the following hop proportions.
40% Citra
20% Nelson
30% Centennial
10% Summitt

This beer gets more and more interesting as we talk about it.

 

[Jrod]

rjschroed what SRM did your brewing software say that you hit on your first attempt?

 

[sauce]

2 Row
Carapils
Honey Malt (Brumalt)
Flaked Maize

Columbus for bittering maybe as a first wort hopping.
My guess is that the rest of the additions are the same proportions and the occur in the last 20 minutes (20, 10, 5, Flame Out, and Dry Hop). Because Citra is a large part of this beer and they needed to cut it with Nelson and because it has already been stated that there is a small percentage of Summit I would propose the following hop proportions.
40% Citra
20% Nelson
30% Centennial
10% Summitt

This beer gets more and more interesting as we talk about it.

Ding Ding...we have another malt, yep, honey malt...love the stuff. still close on the non malt, but not there yet.

Hops % isnt too far off, though your missing a hop

 

[rjschroed]

rjschroed what SRM did your brewing software say that you hit on your first attempt?

I'll have to double check when I get home but I want to say 7.

 

[Jrod]

You are saying the non malt is close on two flaked guesses which best I can figure leaves flaked barley, rye, and oats as the options. Somehow I doubt that spelt or triticale are being used in the production but I could be wrong.

My guess would be flaked barley.

So the hop percentages are off and I'm missing a hop which means I'm wrong about columbus only being used for bittering.

So the new hop percentages go like this and it would have made the original recipe 50% Citra prior to the addition of Nelson.

Citra 30%
Nelson 20%
Centennial 30%
Columbus 10%
Summitt 10%

-With 2-row
-Honey Malt
-Carapils ( I don't really understand the use of carapils I was under the impression that there were no significant flavor contributions and that it only serves as a way to add dextrins and mouthfeel which could be controlled by varying the mash temp.)
-Flaked Barley (Mouth feel and head retention?)

I apparently have alot of preconcieved notions about brewing that I need to get past. lol

 

[btch83]

Dang JRod, you beat me to it. Was going to say Honey Malt. Favorite of mine as well sauce. Columbus and Summit for bittering.

I'd say
Columbus 5%
Summit 5%
Citra 30%
Nelson 30%
Centennial 30%

It can't be Rye, so I'd say Flaked Barley. I've had this when it was old and it has a bread like malt character. Also, using Nelson in conjunction with Citra explains why this isn't brewed everytime there is an open fermenter. That also explains why the owner of TBK said it was the bane of his existence.

Just moved to Orange County from cleveland and brought a case of rajah with me. I have one left. I have to drink it before the freshness runs out. Kind of like putting down old yeller if you ask me. So this recipe is huge for me! ha! Funny enough, I won 3rd place in the west point market homebrew comp before I left and was told mine compared to rajah. Now if I can only make rajah!

On a side note Sauce, the black rajah does not taste like it has the same hop schedule. Would I be correct and if so, is it because nelson and citra are hard to come by? I would assume the patent on Citra allows them to control demand. I just brewed a single hop with Galaxy and am super impressed with it's similar characteristics!

Thanks so much for chatting on here with us Sauce. If you ever want to distribute out in California, I'm your guy...lol

-Mike

 

[Romulan42]

I am drooling in suspense!
Like many others ~ The White Rajah has been a hands down favorite since it touched my picky little lips!

I love the guessing game (as clones should be)

and I will also attempt to brew up the closest clone to the best beer ever!
(once all these great guesses come up with something concrete)

"been following this for days now =) "

 

[Jrod]

When this is done and we decide to brew we have to send a bottle to sauce. Probably needs to be the rule of this thread. If you brew it you must ship a bottle or two.

 

[rjschroed]

I am drooling in suspense!
Like many others ~ The White Rajah has been a hands down favorite since it touched my picky little lips!

I love the guessing game (as clones should be)

and I will also attempt to brew up the closest clone to the best beer ever!
(once all these great guesses come up with something concrete)

"been following this for days now =) "

Welcome to the party. I've been obsessing over it for months. I think I've been the only one who has actually tried to brew something like it to this point. I figured it would take me several attempts to get it to something in the cloned area. What I had was a good starting point and something I could honestly recommend brewing of your into rajah. It's nice to sit back and hear other opinions finally. And the input from sauce has been fantastic. Trust me, we will keep buying rajah, the clone experience is more about learning the art and gaining knowledge than ripping the brewery off, plus that's not cool.

 

[Jrod]

For me its about how to translate the flavors of a beer that I really love into something I can brew. Then you start to realize the ingredients that you like, how they were used, and can incorporate them into what you brew.

 

[BrunstuckyJoe]

I just wanna be a better home brewer....I normally use a similar malt backbone...I need to expand my horizons...I've probably put a good portion of cash into their business.....you have no idea how much of this stuff I've consumed.....

 

[rjschroed]

For me its about how to translate the flavors of a beer that I really love into something I can brew. Then you start to realize the ingredients that you like, how they were used, and can incorporate them into what you brew.

I just wanna be a better home brewer....I normally use a similar malt backbone...I need to expand my horizons...I've probably put a good portion of cash into their business.....you have no idea how much of this stuff I've consumed.....

That is pretty much what I meant

I finally got to check my color calculations and they were 6. Use it as a rough guideline, it's just a calculation that, in my opinion, is ballpark at best.

 

[rjschroed]

You are saying the non malt is close on two flaked guesses which best I can figure leaves flaked barley, rye, and oats as the options. Somehow I doubt that spelt or triticale are being used in the production but I could be wrong.

My guess would be flaked barley.

So the hop percentages are off and I'm missing a hop which means I'm wrong about columbus only being used for bittering.

So the new hop percentages go like this and it would have made the original recipe 50% Citra prior to the addition of Nelson.

Citra 30%
Nelson 20%
Centennial 30%
Columbus 10%
Summitt 10%

-With 2-row
-Honey Malt
-Carapils ( I don't really understand the use of carapils I was under the impression that there were no significant flavor contributions and that it only serves as a way to add dextrins and mouthfeel which could be controlled by varying the mash temp.)
-Flaked Barley (Mouth feel and head retention?)

I apparently have alot of preconcieved notions about brewing that I need to get past. lol

Of the flaked malts, I vote flaked rye. . . flaked barley doesn't make a lot of sense to me, use it for mouthfeel and head rention. . . which is what carapils does as well although I'm sure they aren't exactly the same(for one, less protein/chill haze from the carapils). As far as carapils adding dextrins and mouthfeel that is correct. Mashing higher doesn't do exactly the same thing though. Mashing higher will leave longer chain unfermentables (not necessarily just dextrin) which equates to more residual sweetness. Or at least that is my opinion on the subject. We don't want to make a sweet beer here, we want something with a nice broad malt backbone that doesn't stand out too much to support the hops.

@sauce, how does this look for the grist
85% 2 row
5% carapils
5% honey malt
5% flaked rye

 

[Jrod]

Mashing higher will leave longer chain unfermentables (not necessarily just dextrin) which equates to more residual sweetness. Or at least that is my opinion on the subject. We don't want to make a sweet beer here, we want something with a nice broad malt backbone that doesn't stand out too much to support the hops.

@sauce, how does this look for the grist
85% 2 row
5% carapils
5% honey malt
5% flaked rye

This beer is a very dry beer. So I agree that it is mashed low 149-150. As the label says "malt take a back seat" but the use of carapils and a flaked product should bring the mouthfeel back up not to mention the amazing head retention and lacing this beer has. The only real "malt backbone" is from the honey malt which adds a nice perceived sweetness. I never would have guessed rye as it has a distinct flavor to me but maybe in a small quantity the dry rye spiciness hides in the hops.

 

[rjschroed]

This beer is a very dry beer. So I agree that it is mashed low 149-150. As the label says "malt take a back seat" but the use of carapils and a flaked product should bring the mouthfeel back up not to mention the amazing head retention and lacing this beer has. The only real "malt backbone" is from the honey malt which adds a nice perceived sweetness. I never would have guessed rye as it has a distinct flavor to me but maybe in a small quantity the dry rye spiciness hides in the hops.

I agree with all that. The sweetness that I was perceiving I thought came from the hops, specifically Amarillo. Perhaps it was a bit of the honey malt and Nelson that tricked me into thinking that. I suppose it's possible to do the same thing with the rye, in a small percentage I wonder how much you would even notice it in a beer so bold. A lot of the research I did less me to believe 5% flaked rye wasn't very much.

 

[sauce]

Ok, Jrod got the final bit of the grain Bill, it is flaked barley....

When this is done and we decide to brew we have to send a bottle to sauce. Probably needs to be the rule of this thread. If you brew it you must ship a bottle or two.

That would be awesome....hell, we could have a lil competition, I could get the owner and my assistants together to do a lil judging.

So tell ya all what......you all have the ingredients now.....lets pick a date and anyone that wants to brew it and send two in for a lil shoot out. Thinkin mid January? We will even come up with some kind of prize package.

.....So now ya might wanna keep your recipe ideas on the down low ;-)

Let me know if your all interested

 

[Jrod]

I'm all in. Off to internet stalk some citra.

 

[HawksBrewer]

I've got 2# of citra on order. Better get here in time.

 

[Romulan42]

I am in for some brew comp. ~
Ill def. attempt a batch and send out 2 bottles ~

NOW THAT I AM THINKING ABOUT IT!!
I would probably give up one of these usless fingers or toes for a white rajah and a lamb burger from the brew kettle ... RIGHT NOW~
goodness the things i would do for that wicked combo!
(cant get it out of my head now)
wish I had the oppertunity to make it out that way more often!

Keep us updated on the competition....

im going to concoct a recipe today!!

 

[BrunstuckyJoe]

I'm hip to a little competition....just have to find some honey malt.....my local brew pub doesn't carry it...
Just ordered what I can't get locally.....

 

[btch83]

I'm in for sure. Thanks sauce!

So mid January guys? Should we put a date in stone when the beers should be delivered to TBK? Sauce? What works for you guys?

I'm glad I brought citra and nelson with me cause it's impossible to find out here.

Best to all and Cheers!

Mike

 

[BrunstuckyJoe]

Seems to be a shortage of Centennial hops in 2012.....even my Centennial plants at home didn't bear as much as the Zeus, Chinook and Cascade.....musta have been the heat.

 

[ThomEHof]

I'm hip to a little competition....just have to find some honey malt.....my local brew pub doesn't carry it...
Just ordered what I can't get locally.....

Have you tried the new Cleveland Brew Shop in Tremont. Here's there info 2681 W. 14th st in the Tremont neighborhood 216-574-2271

 

[BrunstuckyJoe]

Never knew it was there......Just checked....no web site yet....have you been there yet?

 

[ThomEHof]

Have you tried the new Cleveland Brew Shop in Tremont. Here's there info 2681 W. 14th st in the Tremont neighborhood 216-574-2271

I verified, he does have Honey Malt

 

[BrunstuckyJoe]

Cool, I already ordered some thru Rebel Brewer.
I'll remember that for next time. Do you know what their hours are?

 

[ThomEHof]

Cool, I already ordered some thru Rebel Brewer.
I'll remember that for next time. Do you know what their hours are?

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