White Labs WLP773 from the vault

[Maylar]

White Labs WLP773 is back in their vault, and they need another 100 or so orders before releasing it. I put in a pre order for two, hope to have them before cider season is upon us.

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault

I'm interested because of the low attenuation, 80% from 1.048, should leave some residual sugar without back sweetening.

I know some folks here tried this last year, any reports of results?

And anyone else interested, ... sign up and spread the word.

 

[rcreamer0713]

Also interested in this

 

[Ogroat]

This isn't directly related to the question, but I had a bad experience with the White Labs vault this summer. I had made three different Vault orders when they were guaranteeing shipping. The first two were no problem. They took my payment and sent email confirmation of shipping and the yeast came several days later. The last vault order, though, I still haven't received after four months.

They took payment and sent an email saying that they'd done so. However, no shipping email came and no yeast showed up. After a couple months, I sent them an email about it. I didn't hear back. A week later, I reached out on Twitter. I was assured that somebody would email me, but that didn't happen. It's now four months after they took my payment and I haven't heard a word.

I like their yeast, but it seems like there's a reason why they're mainly a B2B retailer. I've sent them one last email to attempt to get an answer, but otherwise I'll just chalk the $20 paid to a learning experience and avoid the vault in the future.

 

[rcreamer0713]

If the yeast hasnt reached its orders yet they wont ship it. It has to hit 150 orders.

Pay. Hit 150. Ship.

I waited 6 monthes for my last ault yeast thats just the name of the beast

 

[Ogroat]

If the yeast hasnt reached its orders yet they wont ship it. It has to hit 150 orders.

Pay. Hit 150. Ship.

I waited 6 monthes for my last ault yeast thats just the name of the beast

You're right that this is normally how the vault works. However, they did a thing earlier this year that pushed all strains out the door regardless of the number of orders taken.

 

[rcreamer0713]

Did u buy ome of new strains they released. Because they released strains after shipping out the last batch.

 

[Maylar]

You're right that this is normally how the vault works. However, they did a thing earlier this year that pushed all strains out the door regardless of the number of orders taken.

Yeah I remember seeing that, and I expected to be able to just order it from them. But they have it listed as being in the vault again so I dunno. I did get a confirmation of my pre-order so I guess it's a matter of waiting now.

 

[Drewed]

I have used 773 in the past and it is/ was wonderful. This is my favorite cider yeast. I have 1 bottle left, so I hope the pre-orders roll in!

It will ferment dry, but doesn't blow out all the apple flavor. I backsweetended with condensed cider and bottle carbed. IT blew away the guys at my LHBS so much that they had to call me in the middle of the work day to tell them how I made it.

You owe it to yourself to make at least one batch with this yeast.

 

[madscientist451]

Interested, but they need 103 more orders before they ship. I'm wondering if it will ship in time for this season's apples. Also, its supposed to be two ale strains and a wine strain, I'm thinking the ratios will change when making a starter or re-pitching.
So could I just use some low attenuating ale yeast and a wine yeast and get something similar?
I'm thinking of trying WY 1332, attenuation 67-71% and
WY 1728, attenuation 69-73% and
for the wine strain:Vintner's Harvest MA33 : Acid reducing strain excellent for fruity white & blush country wines especially where residual sugars are desired. MA33 has the ability to metabolize between 30 and 35% of malic acid making this strain the perfect choice for country fruits which are naturally high in acid.
I was just going to make starters of the above three and pitch a cup or so of each into a 3 gallon experimental batch. Comments?

 

[rcreamer0713]

I have used 773 in the past and it is/ was wonderful. This is my favorite cider yeast. I have 1 bottle left, so I hope the pre-orders roll in!

It will ferment dry, but doesn't blow out all the apple flavor. I backsweetended with condensed cider and bottle carbed. IT blew away the guys at my LHBS so much that they had to call me in the middle of the work day to tell them how I made it.

You owe it to yourself to make at least one batch with this yeast.

Recipe used?

 

[kittycat]

Thinking about making cider it will be my 1st one. Can't decided on a yeast....

 

[Drewed]

Recipe used?

6 gallons of local pressed late season cider (UV only, no sorbates)
1 vial of yeast

1. Ferment in basement, but during the spring. Ferment temps ~68-70f

2. Rack to 5 gallon secondary ( a lot of lees and apple junk with the fresh cider; besides my 5 gallon secondary is closer to 5.25 when full.) and let sit a couple of week to clear.

3. Get impatient and use Super Kleer ( Chitosan and Kieselsol.)

4. Reduce a gallon of non-ferment cider on the stove until it is at least half the volume, perhaps 1/3.

5. Cool and use to backsweeten.

6. Bottle with "Fizz drops, carbonation tabs, or priming sugar." - yeah I know, I have back sweeting, don't need the drops, but I didn't want to loose the sweetness to carbonation.

7. When the pressure gauge was at about 40 I stove top pasteurized to 140, with a 10 min soak.

8. Chill and enjoy

 

[rcreamer0713]

Thanks gotta see if i can do this.

 

[BrewSavage]

White Labs WLP773 is back in their vault, and they need another 100 or so orders before releasing it. I put in a pre order for two, hope to have them before cider season is upon us.

https://www.whitelabs.com/yeast-vault

I'm interested because of the low attenuation, 80% from 1.048, should leave some residual sugar without back sweetening.

I know some folks here tried this last year, any reports of results?

And anyone else interested, ... sign up and spread the word.

Just FYI about what to expect.

August 2016 I ordered a different cider yeast with 100+ orders to go and it finally shipped in February.

That long despite me starting a thread in this forum to boost sales.

 

[Finny62]

I'm interested, I'll place an order today

 

[Maylar]

Just FYI about what to expect.

August 2016 I ordered a different cider yeast with 100+ orders to go and it finally shipped in February.

That long despite me starting a thread in this forum to boost sales.

Bummer. Good thing I have some S-04 on order too... cider time is quickly approaching.

 

[Drewed]

I have some “saved” from my last order. I’m not sure how viable it is any more. I’ll toss a couple on as soon as I get a free stir plate and see if it makes the starter go pale

 

[Drewed]

Bump to boost interest in ordering.

Under 100 orders until it ships...

 

[Maylar]

Yuh, 95 more. I wonder how many cider makers we have here.

 

[davidlewis]

Ok, this post sold me. I bought 2. 93 to go

 

[johnnyseko]

I'm in. Ordered 2.

 

[mwilcox]

a sacc yeast unable to consume 20% of the sugar from apple juice just defies belief with me, and when such basic information seemed wrong it really made me not want to use it.
I've been very happy with my results (largely DV10, with HST for Ice Cider) so I haven't been interested but if the number of orders needed gets low I'll toss in several to get us there.

 

[Maylar]

I figure White Labs knows as much about cider yeast as anybody, so why not give it a shot.

 

[Elodar]

Ordered 1 to try.

 

[Maylar]

Bump. C'mon guys, 82 more to go. I'd like to test this yeast this year....

 

[johnnyseko]

70 orders to go.....I found the good orchard juice, now I'd like to get this while I can still easily keep my ferment temps down!

 

[Maylar]

70 orders to go.....I found the good orchard juice, now I'd like to get this while I can still easily keep my ferment temps down!

Roger that. The local cider mills press until Christmas, but it looks like it'll be next year's yeast for me unless it's released real soon.

Dr. Chris White, founder of White Labs, says in his book that yeast lose about 5% viability per year in the fridge and that he recommends at least 90% viability - so, in theory if we keep it cold it's good for 2 years.

 

[johnnyseko]

I found some great juice at Ochs Orchard in Warwick NY, was told it's available year round. They freeze it and keep it available so I should be good there.

I'll also be stopping at Clydes Cider Mill in Mystic CT tomorrow to check that out as well. On a mission to find the best juice!

I'm going to end up with a shelf in the fridge dedicated to yeast!! haha As long as we get it at some point, I'm excited to try it. Are you going to just do a simple recipe with it? I'd like to just do the cider/yeast only and ferment for a few weeks. Secondary for as long as I can stand to age it.

 

[Maylar]

Yeah, that's the plan. Typically I ferment dry and after aging for a year stabilize and sweeten then keg. It'd be cool to have 10 points of sugar left over without back sweetening.

 

[Rocksville]

I figure White Labs knows as much about cider yeast as anybody, so why not give it a shot.

I attended a cider workshop a year or two ago (can't remember if it was at CiderCon or CBC) that was presented by one of the lab folks from the San Diego lab. She began by basically saying "I have never made cider, I don't like cider, and I don't think anyone in the US makes good cider", then in true WL fashion went on to backpedal when asked why she didn't think anyone made good cider in the US and contradict herself when people asked questions for clarification of information that didn't make much sense.

I'm sure there are plenty of people at WL that legitimately do know a lot about cider yeast, but nobody left that room impressed.

 

[madscientist451]

I found some great juice at Ochs Orchard in Warwick NY, was told it's available year round. They freeze it and keep it available so I should be good there.

Juice that you enjoy drinking fresh isn't the same as "great juice" for making fermented cider.
I've tried all kinds of apple and yeast combinations, and at this point, my view is that yeast selection can not overcome the negative aspects of using standard dessert apples in fermented cider. But, I've been wrong before (often) so maybe this will work out.

 

[Maylar]

Juice that you enjoy drinking fresh isn't the same as "great juice" for making fermented cider.
I've tried all kinds of apple and yeast combinations, and at this point, my view is that yeast selection can not overcome the negative aspects of using standard dessert apples in fermented cider. But, I've been wrong before (often) so maybe this will work out.

True, that. A local orchard here does a special pressing one day a year for hard cider makers, and it's much different than their table cider. They use apples with more tannins and acid for a balanced hard cider.

That said, people have and do make good cider from fresh juice and even frozen concentrate, if you're willing to make "adjustments" at the end. If you don't live in apple country you make do with what you can get.

 

[johnnyseko]

I've been trying to control as many factors that I can, without purchasing apples and a press. That isn't an option right now. I've visited many orchards and tried different juices. Not all are the same and Ochs was the most unique I've tried - not your typical sweet cider. It was recommended by the cider guy at my local brew shop.

So with the best juice that I can get, yeast choice is the next best thing I can control to effect the outcome of my cider.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Juice that you enjoy drinking fresh isn't the same as "great juice" for making fermented cider.
I've tried all kinds of apple and yeast combinations, and at this point, my view is that yeast selection can not overcome the negative aspects of using standard dessert apples in fermented cider. But, I've been wrong before (often) so maybe this will work out.

In the UK, Eastern Counties cider is a recognised commercial style based on dessert apples (it started as a by-product of orchards that produced for the table as opposed to dedicated cider orchards out West) that sometimes wins competitions against "proper" cider, so it is possible. Only certain varieties work on their own - Discovery seems to be the most popular, and you sometimes get Egremont Russet, but normally they're blends. Part of the problem seems to be stopping them over-attenuating, but when they work they can be great, they actually taste of apples.

 

[madscientist451]

That's interesting. The dessert apples I can get locally generally make a cider that's too acidic for my taste. Without proper lab equipment, I can't quantify the acidity, but the varieties that are grown, the growing climate and the fact that most apples are picked before they are ripe all have an impact.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

That's interesting. The dessert apples I can get locally generally make a cider that's too acidic for my taste. Without proper lab equipment, I can't quantify the acidity, but the varieties that are grown, the growing climate and the fact that most apples are picked before they are ripe all have an impact.

Some of it will be taste - after all Chablis, Blanc de Blanc champagne and Californian chardonnay all have their fans and are made from the same variety of grape, but have very different levels of acidity. It's perhaps notable that Cox much be the most widely-planted dessert apple in the UK but you don't often see it as a cider. Maybe that's because it has a ready market in the supermarkets, but you do see it as a juice and I'd guess the problem is that it is too acidic for a single-variety cider.
Champagne has one solution to acidity - carbonation, which distracts from the acidity.
Another option might be a malolactic fermentation to reduce the "bite" of the acidity with something like WLP675 or one of several in the Wyeast 4000 range. This is getting way out of my personal experience, but perhaps others can offer advice there.

 

[Maylar]

71B-1122 will reduce the malic acid level in cider and can be used with or without MLF.

 

[BrewSavage]

Only 60 more to go on this one.

On a Nov 25th post somebody noted 70.

So that is 10 orders in the last 40 days.

 

[paneubert]

My only hesitation is that I have been getting into banking frozen yeast and I am not sure how well a blend would work. I guess if I built a large starter and harvested from that, the ratios would be about right. Enough "Gen 1" vials made from the original pitch should keep things as expected for as long as those "Gen 1" vials last me.

 

[paneubert]

Yeah, I am in for 2 vials. You all convinced me. Haha.