White Labs strains with Diastaticus built-in

[Mer-man]

So if you goggle "site:whitelabs.com STA1" you get the current list, sort of:

WLP...
565
566
885
570
038
590
644
740
568
099
545
037
045
707
670
351

So all these strains sold by WL are S. Cerevisiae var Diastaticus, which means they produce Glucoamylase and can break down and ferment dextrins.

@Northern_Brewer @suregork Does this track with the genetic family maps?

 

[thcipriani]

FWIW, I wrote a python script a few months back that crawls white labs website for mentions of diastaticus in yeast descriptions. The full list I got from running the script today was:

• WLP037 Yorkshire Square Ale Yeast
• WLP038 Manchester Ale Yeast
• WLP045 Scotch Whisky Yeast
• WLP067 Coastal Haze Ale Yeast Blend
• WLP073 Artisanal Country Ale Yeast
• WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale Yeast
• WLP351 Bavarian Weizen Yeast
• WLP545 Belgian Strong Ale Yeast
• WLP565 Belgian Saison I Yeast
• WLP566 Belgian Saison II Ale Yeast
• WLP568 Belgian Style Saison Ale Yeast Blend
• WLP570 Belgian Golden Ale Yeast
• WLP590 French Saison Ale Yeast
• WLP644 Saccharomyces "bruxellensis" Trois
• WLP670 American Farmhouse Blend
• WLP707 California Pinot Noir Yeast
• WLP740 Merlot Red Wine Yeast
• WLP885 Zurich Lager Yeast

 

[Mer-man]

You see, it's a feature -- not a flaw!

 

[Queequeg]

Has it been the case that these strains have always had the STA1 gene associated with var diastaticus or is it that the stock has shared genetic material with wild strains?

For most of these strains such as the wine, farmhouse and Belgian makes perfect sense that they are var. diastaticus. Even Yorkshire square makes sense. WLP067 less so.

 

[ba-brewer]

Looking through the list it seems like many of the strains may have the gene but don't use it as they don't all have super high attenuations.

I am glad they have the notes regarding STA1 for the strains now but wish they had the notes added earlier as I have an order in for WLP037 from the vault.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Heh, some cross checking needed there! I’m on my phone so won’t poke around right now, but no, it doesn’t correlate particularly with genetics.

Think of the diastaticus gene package like giving a chainsaw to a man, a woman, or a gorilla - it’s a bolt-on that is more or less independent of genetics, although the gorilla may not use it particularly effectively. But they would all get labelled “lumberjack” in the same way that unrelated yeast get labelled “diastaticus”.

A lot of those mentions are in fact noting that their genomes contain a broken gene, so they will appear positive in genetic tests for diastaticus but don’t actually super-attenuate. From memory I think 037 is one such (and I’m also getting impatient for it to leave the Vault, although apparently Brewlab have a version of it). This is White Labs covering themselves after getting sued over commercial pitches of wlp090 that were contaminated with a diastaticus strain, they then went back and tested everything they had for it.

 

[Queequeg]

If I remember rightly it was wlp090 that left hand were using. But yes, this is White labs covering their ass

That said it is not clear what genetically constitutents qualifies a strain as categorization as car diastaticus if it's not simply presence of viruses he STA1 and related genes.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Gah - I thought I typed 090, wretched phones!

It’s one of those things, brewers are only interested in whether there’s a functional super attenuating enzyme, and so would define diastaticus on that basis, but WL know that people will see DNA positive and get worried even though in this case the DNA test is not a particularly reliable indicator of enzyme activity.

 

[Queequeg]

Gah - I thought I typed 090, wretched phones!

It’s one of those things, brewers are only interested in whether there’s a functional super attenuating enzyme, and so would define diastaticus on that basis, but WL know that people will see DNA positive and get worried even though in this case the DNA test is not a particularly reliable indicator of enzyme activity.

So really many of these strains though contain the STA1 gene it may not be active. I think if I was white labs this is something that I would determine and then publish.

 

[Brewboz]

So I used white labs Belgian golden ale yeast witch has the Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus trait? What good does it do for my beer? Does it just help clear up extra sugars? Does it cause a longer fermentation then normal? Does it add a fruity flavor of some sort? I just checked my gravity sg was .45 and its down to .5 I tasted it. its a bit dry and sour but It smells good and still has good taste. The sample was a bit fizzy as well. Any knowledge would be helpfull thanks.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Those notes are strictly for the purpose of "CYA" (Cover Your Ass). They appeared after the lawsuit from Left Hand.

All yeast strains are different and unique. Labeling a group as "diastaticus" is racist!

Saccharomyces has thousands of genes (4000-6000). STA1 is one such gene/allele and not all the strains with it even express it.
Strains that do express STA1 will simply have higher attenuation, leading to a lower FG -- a more dry beer to some degree.

Just focus on the flavor, temperature range, "normal" attenuation, alcohol tolerance, and flocculation when selecting a strain, as you normally would.

IF you ever use a highly attenuative yeast of any kind, you want to take special care to clean and sanitize so it doesn't contaminate future batches.

Hope this helps

 

[Brewboz]

Those notes are strictly for the purpose of "CYA" (Cover Your Ass). They appeared after the lawsuit from Left Hand.

All yeast strains are different and unique. Labeling a group as "diastaticus" is racist!

Saccharomyces has thousands of genes (4000-6000). STA1 is one such gene/allele and not all the strains with it even express it.
Strains that do express STA1 will simply have higher attenuation, leading to a lower FG -- a more dry beer to some degree.

Just focus on the flavor, temperature range, "normal" attenuation, alcohol tolerance, and flocculation when selecting a strain, as you normally would.

IF you even use a highly attenuative yeast of any kind, you want to take special care to clean and sanitize so it doesn't contaminate future batches.

Hope this helps

That does help its explais why its heading towered the dry side anyway