Whirlpool post boil questions

[cmybeer]

So I recently got a new kettle with a whirlpool valve and a pump to go along with it. I'm using a plate chiller which has had issues in the past so I figured the whirlpool was a good idea to centralize the trub and to potentially use for post boil hop additions.

So, questions:

1. How long do you usually whirlpool for just to get the trub in the center and how long to wait before pumping out?
2. How long if you're doing hop additions?
3. I was thinking of pumping through the end of the boil to sanitize the pump and tubing. How long does it take to do that? Is that advised? If not, what's the best way to sanitize my pump? Can you just dip it in the starsan? I have a steelhead 2.0.

Thanks for the suggestions. Just gearing up and getting back in the game

 

[Upthewazzu]

1.) about 5-10 minutes will suffice
2.) If I'm doing a hopstand/whirlpool, I only WP for the amount of time set forth in the recipe
3.) You'll get some cavitation as the boiling wort traverses through the pump. At least I do with my Chugger.

I should mention that I use a copper wort chiller instead of a plate chiller. I found that it was just much simpler that way (I use to do the plate chiller thing but it was too much work, IMO).

 

[day_trippr]

It's more about allowing the trub to settle out than a lengthy recirculation. 5 minutes to spin the wort up is enough, but allowing a good 20 minutes for everything to drop is beneficial.

I recirculate nearing the end of the boil and then continuously during FO & WP hopping through chilling. I have to throttle the pump down while the wort is boiling to around 1/4-1/2 its peak rate to keep from cavitating the pump head. When I hit my target temperature I shut off the pump for 20 minutes, then fill my carboys, leaving behind whatever has coned up in the middle...

Cheers!

 

[Upthewazzu]

It's more about allowing the trub to settle out than a lengthy recirculation. 5 minutes to spin the wort up is enough, but allowing a good 20 minutes for everything to drop is beneficial.

This is a good point, I also let my wort sit for another 5-10 minutes before I put it into the fermentor. I usually clean up during that time.

 

[cmybeer]

continuously during FO & WP hopping through chilling. I have to throttle the pump down while the wort is boiling to around 1/4-1/2 its peak rate to keep from cavitating the pump head

Ok, so maybe I've been out of the game for too long but what does FO and WP stand for? Also, your the second person to mention cavitating?

Thanks for the input though guys.

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok, so maybe I've been out of the game for too long but what does FO and WP stand for? Also, your the second person to mention cavitating?

Thanks for the input though guys.

FO - Flameout
WP - Whirlpool (this includes hop stands or hop steeps)

A pump cavitates when it's being starved from its liquid supply.

 

[IslandLizard]

After trying various kettle filters over the years, I've resorted to bag all hops during the boil. I use large 10x20", heavy duty, fine mesh nylon hop bags I bought at the brew store. The mesh is around 75-100 micron, I gather.

I add a handful of glass marbles to weigh them down and keep them roomy, so there is plenty of wort circulation. In addition, every 3-5 minutes or so I lift them up, out of the wort, using my brew spoon or a wooden paddle to let them mostly drain. That way the wort inside is being refreshed. I also "massage" the bags with that spoon or paddle from time to time. I get excellent hop extraction and never a plugged up plate chiller or cavitating pump anymore. I can whirlpool or recirculate all day long at maximum speed. Brewing has become a real joy again since I started bagging those hops.

I do keep a fairly coarse filter over my kettle's exit port for all security. It doesn't restrict flow while it lets break and fine hop dust, that makes it out of the bags, through. But no larger pieces if they happen to get in there. Such as a few hop leaves or a stray hop flower. Even the Irish Moss flakes stay behind.

That rest period after chilling is essential to let all the trub sink to the bottom, leaving clear wort on top.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

It's more about allowing the trub to settle out than a lengthy recirculation. 5 minutes to spin the wort up is enough, but allowing a good 20 minutes for everything to drop is beneficial.

I recirculate nearing the end of the boil and then continuously during FO & WP hopping through chilling. I have to throttle the pump down while the wort is boiling to around 1/4-1/2 its peak rate to keep from cavitating the pump head. When I hit my target temperature I shut off the pump for 20 minutes, then fill my carboys, leaving behind whatever has coned up in the middle...

Cheers!

Boy, I could have written this. Matches my experience/process exactly.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

After trying various kettle filters over the years, I've resorted to bag all hops during the boil. I use large 10x20", heavy duty, fine mesh nylon hop bags I bought at the brew store. The mesh is around 75-100 micron, I gather.

I add a handful of glass marbles to weigh them down and keep them roomy, so there is plenty of wort circulation. In addition, every 3-5 minutes or so I lift them up, out of the wort, using my brew spoon or a wooden paddle to let them mostly drain. That way the wort inside is being refreshed. I also "massage" the bags with that spoon or paddle from time to time. I get excellent hop extraction and never a plugged up plate chiller or cavitating pump anymore. I can whirlpool or recirculate all day long at maximum speed. Brewing has become a real joy again since I started bagging those hops.

I do keep a fairly coarse filter over my kettle's exit port for all security. It doesn't restrict flow while it lets break and fine hop dust, that makes it out of the bags, through. But no larger pieces if they happen to get in there. Such as a few hop leaves or a stray hop flower. Even the Irish Moss flakes stay behind.

That rest period after chilling is essential to let all the trub sink to the bottom, leaving clear wort on top.

I've never had issues with hop matter loose in my boil. I brew a lot of NEIPAs with 10 oz of hop pellets in the kettle of a 5 gallon batch. I can run my pump full bore with no clogging or issues. My pump does cavitate during the boil, but that's because of the boil, not the hops. As soon as I turn off the flame, I can pump full speed. I actually prefer to get some hop matter into my fermenter as it acts a little like a day 0 dry hop...get that biotransformation going from the very beginning.

That being said, I use an immersion chiller because I've seen what grows inside tubing that can't really be dried. Even with extensive cleaning and a flush with sanitizer, I've seen mold grow in hoses. No way I'm using a plate chiller or counterflow chiller. Maybe if I brewed more regularly, but with once a month, that's too much time for crap to grow in those things.

If you're process works for you and you're happy, that's great. I just wouldn't want people to think they had to use a hop bag to prevent cavitation.

 

[IslandLizard]

If you're process works for you and you're happy, that's great. I just wouldn't want people to think they had to use a hop bag to prevent cavitation.

I never intended to give that impression.

The only reason I contain hops is to keep them from going into the plate chiller. When I used kettle filters over the exit port, no matter how large the filters were, they started to clog with hop pulp quickly, reducing the flow to a trickle causing severe pump cavitation. Recirculation, whirlpooling, and chilling became about impossible.

When I resorted to bagging the kettle hops, it solved all those problems. I never noticed any less hop utilization or lack of hop flavor. If anything, they may have gotten better due to better recirculation and whirlpooling, and definitely more predictable and repeatable from batch to batch. I can now chill a 6 gallon batch down from 210F to 180F in 1-2 minutes, from 180 to 160 in under 2 minutes.

 

[Upthewazzu]

One of the reasons (among others) that I stopped using the plate chiller is because of the need to bag hops.

With an immersion chiller, you can just throw 'em all in without worrying.

There are many right answers, in this case.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I never intended to give that impression.

The only reason I contain hops is to keep them from going into the plate chiller. When I used kettle filters over the exit port, no matter how large the filters were, they started to clog with hop pulp quickly, reducing the flow to a trickle causing severe pump cavitation. Recirculation, whirlpooling, and chilling became about impossible.

When I resorted to bagging the kettle hops, it solved all those problems. I never noticed any less hop utilization or lack of hop flavor. If anything, they may have gotten better due to better recirculation and whirlpooling, and definitely more predictable and repeatable from batch to batch. I can now chill a 6 gallon batch down from 210F to 180F in 1-2 minutes, from 180 to 160 in under 2 minutes.

Excellent

 

[cabron99]

Excellent discussion!!

pao