Whirlpool during chilling, beer is very cloud

[troyp42]

Hi brewers, I used to use a plate chiller and before transfer would do a whirlpool with a spoon. The wort would be nice and clear with a decent trub cone in the middle.

Now I use an Immersion chiller. At the end of boil my worth is reasonably clear with clumps of trub floating in amongst the clear wort. However once I start the pump to whirlpool these clumps of trub start to break up and mix into the wort. By the time Ive chilled down to correct temps the wort is cloudy and all the trub has mixed into the wort.

What am I doing wrong here?

 

[Soulshine2]

Hi brewers, I used to use a plate chiller and before transfer would do a whirlpool with a spoon. The wort would be nice and clear with a decent trub cone in the middle.

Now I use an Immersion chiller. At the end of boil my worth is reasonably clear with clumps of trub floating in amongst the clear wort. However once I start the pump to whirlpool these clumps of trub start to break up and mix into the wort. By the time Ive chilled down to correct temps the wort is cloudy and all the trub has mixed into the wort.

What am I doing wrong here?

youre probably trying to rush it. I dont whirlpool it too hard ,just to get the trub to center up. I dont touch the chiller . The bottom of it acts like a trub trap...a little. start my cleanup while it settles out, then go back and slowly let it run to the fermenter. it will settle out as it ferments anyway so dont worry too much .

 

[troyp42]

youre probably trying to rush it. I dont whirlpool it too hard ,just to get the trub to center up. I dont touch the chiller . The bottom of it acts like a trub trap...a little. start my cleanup while it settles out, then go back and slowly let it run to the fermenter. it will settle out as it ferments anyway so dont worry too much .

Ok so I should use a tap on the whirlpool outlet to throttle the pump a bit and slow it down? And after chilling leave it for 10 mins to settle?

I stuffed up and already pitched my yeast or I suppose I could have dumped the trub from my conical in 4 hours or so then pitch the yeast.

 

[eric19312]

Maybe I’m wrong but I think you can dump that trub tomorrow without losing your yeast. I thought that was pretty standard technique for removal of cold break for plate/CF chilling anyway.

I’m also IC and I always pull the IC then run the whirlpool pump for a minute or so then let the batch rest 10-60 min depending on what’s going on. It’s 16 gallon batch and once chilled really takes time to settle. My Spike kettle has a two level bottom and the cone sits in lower level while I pull wort from upper level. It’s good enough for me after a short rest but I’m not too picky about getting some trub into the fermentor.

 

[sicktght311]

It’s pretty much common practice to let the wort settle after you whirlpool. Shut off your pumps, cover the kettle, and leave it for half hour. Everything should settle out nicely

 

[cswant88]

Ok so I should use a tap on the whirlpool outlet to throttle the pump a bit and slow it down? And after chilling leave it for 10 mins to settle?

I stuffed up and already pitched my yeast or I suppose I could have dumped the trub from my conical in 4 hours or so then pitch the yeast.

You should throttle right after the pump if you’re gonna do it. Don’t ever restrict flow into the pump.

 

[troyp42]

Thanks guys. Yes I will throttle after the pump. I might attach a valve on the outlet of the pump with a quick disconnect. I didnt wait after whirlpool and transferred straight away but next time will wait 30 minutes.

So if I dump now wont my yeast be sitting down the bottom and come out with the trub?

 

[Smellyglove]

You're not doing anything wrong. Just let it settle after you've chilled it, and taken the immersion chiller out of the wort, and put the lid on. I use about 1-2 hours for settling, because I'm picky about my wort.

 

[Dland]

Related to this thread, sort of.

I've been wondering at what temp range I need to stay away from to avoid too much DMS.

Recently have been trying move things along by dropping wort temp from boiling to 170F or so, for a lower temp post whirlpool hop step. Using immersion chiller for this, it drops down the first 30-40F quickly.

Today I brewed and dropped it down to 170, removed immersion chiller coil, whirlpooled, then gravity transferred to hop back (cleaned out MT w leaf hops in spider). It took some time, as we know, for the hot break trub to settle after whirlpool.

After hop step, I run though plate cooler and pump into fermentor in cellar.

Anyone have a handy chart on DMS production vs temps and cooling rate?

I'll know in time how it comes out, but am interested if anyone knows actual perimeters of DMS production.

 

[Saunassa]

I cool down and pull my IC but since I don't have a pump I just stir with a spoon for 5-10 minutes. All depends on if my boy asks if he can help. He knows the smile means he gets to stir. Around and around it goes and then I let it settle for 15-30 minutes while I start clean up.
Leaves majority of trub behind in kettle and that's all I am trying to do.

 

[Smellyglove]

Related to this thread, sort of.

I've been wondering at what temp range I need to stay away from to avoid too much DMS.

Recently have been trying move things along by dropping wort temp from boiling to 170F or so, for a lower temp post whirlpool hop step. Using immersion chiller for this, it drops down the first 30-40F quickly.

Today I brewed and dropped it down to 170, removed immersion chiller coil, whirlpooled, then gravity transferred to hop back (cleaned out MT w leaf hops in spider). It took some time, as we know, for the hot break trub to settle after whirlpool.

After hop step, I run though plate cooler and pump into fermentor in cellar.

Anyone have a handy chart on DMS production vs temps and cooling rate?

I'll know in time how it comes out, but am interested if anyone knows actual perimeters of DMS production.

It's not "that easy". You'll probably be fine anyway. You need to look into the whole process from SMM to DMS. You can't get rid of DMS if it's not been converted to DMS from SMM. This happens at higher temperatures. So if you haven't converted "enough" SMM to DMS before and during the boil, you theoretically might create DMS in the hopstand, but as I said, you'll probably be fine unless you did something to save a lot of time. I do nothing finicky and keep a WP for about 25 minutes at 60C for all hoppy beers I make. Never noticed DMS with this procedure. But I've also tried to actually get DMS, and I've gotten it, so I know how it tastes and feels like.

 

[couchsending]

SMM basically stops converting to DMS at 80-85C.

Highly recommend this for a one stop shop in everything DMS, it’s rather informative.

http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Dimethyl_Sulfide#cite_note-Anness-4

 

[postalbunny]

like other have said... whirlpool fast, but when you're ready to run off let it settle for a second. Some say 15-30min, but really within minutes everything will settle out. I usually whirlpool while chilling at full speed, then when i'm ready to run off i kill it for a few minutes (literally 1-3 minutes) while i drag my fermenter over and then either restrict to quarter throttle or keep the pump off and let it gravity drain out.

 

[Vale71]

Anyone have a handy chart on DMS production vs temps and cooling rate?

I'll know in time how it comes out, but am interested if anyone knows actual perimeters of DMS production.

Here you go (it's a bit more complex than a simple chart though):

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jib.156

 

[Dland]

Pretty much confirms other info posted on this thread; it is not a bad idea to speed drop temp from boiling to around 175F.

Better for the post whirlpool hop effect I'm looking for, and the DMS precursor's formation will be slowed a lot if brought down to that temp.

Just want to make sure one's sanitation is good, as wort temps getting closer to non sanitizing temperatures.