Whirlfloc used, why cloudy?

[OkanaganMike]

First some background
1. I've brewed 4ea 5gal batches all grain via BIAB method.
2. My first batch I buggered and forgot the Whirlfloc tablet but the other 3 I made sure to use a half tablet powdered and put in the at the last 15 mins of boil.
2 A. Used 1/2 tablet after reading here a tablet is strength enough for 10 gal batch and some guys use 1/2.
3. At the end of the boil, I let it settle for 10mins and run it through a 30 plate chiller.
4. Takes about 5-10mins to drain keggle and drop temp to 65-70F .

What am I doing wrong? Using the full whirlfloc tablet vs. 1/2 is the first obvious thing I'll try next time.

 

[moreb33rplz]

I'm no expert, but time, cold/hot break, yeast strain, temperature, dry hops, and I'm sure lots of other stuff will have an impact on clarity.

 

[dave5155]

Do you keg or bottle. What style of beer is it? How long has the beer been sitting? the first pours out of a keg are most always cloudy. Try not to shake or move the keg once it has set for awhile. The beer will run clear soon. If you bottle, is it clear prior to refrigeration? The issue is chill haze if so.

 

[Yooper]

Wort and beer clarity are affected by many things. Whirlfloc works to coagulate proteins so they drop out so generally you won't have a protein haze in a beer that has used whirlfloc or Irish moss (except for wheat beers)

But there are other hazes that are common. For example, a starch haze. If there were conversion issues in the mashtun, a starch haze will happen and be permanent.

Beers that have wheat in them, particularly as a large percentage of the ingredients, have more protein (see whirlfloc, above ) and won't be crystal clear generally. It's not that they are murky- they are not. But they may have a haze that won't clear ever.

Yeast that is non-flocculant may also create a haze.

Pectins from fruit may create a pectin haze.

So you can see that in order to fix a cloudy beer, you have to know the cause of the haze/cloudiness. Whirlfloc helps to get a good cold break, due to the nature of coagulating the proteins, but you can get a clear beer without whirlfloc as well.

For some beers that won't clear, many brewers will use finings like gelatin or other finings. I don't, but I do use some finings in my wines at times.

 

[OkanaganMike]

Guess I need more history here, sorry guys. I hit a button and it sent it too soon. (big clumsy fingers)

3 week ferment at 65-68F

Bottle condition 3 weeks one 4 weeks other @ 68F

Bottled 2 batches. First one I forgot to add the tablet, (Nut Brown very dark)I cold crashed a few days before bottling. I'll add you can't really tell with this one that it is cloudy or not.

Other Bottled batch is a Steam ale clone - Safale 05

Yesterday I bottled below and both were cloudy...
Moose Drool (again very dark but was cloudy) Safale 04
Cream Ale - Safale 05

No dry hop stage.

Do you think these will clarify in time in the bottle? They taste AWESOME! Just not as pretty as could be.

 

[OkanaganMike]

Didn't use any adjuncts like wheat or fruit. Don't know much about what starch issues are. I'll google it but will tell you on average the OG and FG were a point or 2 off to where the recipe said.

 

[MrHopScotch]

IME us-05 is a really slow flocculator; they may just need more time in the fridge. The beers where I've used that as a bottling yeast can take a couple weeks in the fridge to get really clear.

 

[Yooper]

IME us-05 is a really slow flocculator; they may just need more time in the fridge. The beers where I've used that as a bottling yeast can take a couple weeks in the fridge to get really clear.

That's my experience too- I rarely use S05 anymore because it takes FOREVER to clear out of the beer. Since I make a ton of beers that are best 'fresh', like IPA, it's just not satisfactory for me.

S04 drops like a rock usually, so if that beer is cloudy then it's not a yeast haze.

 

[OkanaganMike]

IME us-05 is a really slow flocculator; they may just need more time in the fridge. The beers where I've used that as a bottling yeast can take a couple weeks in the fridge to get really clear.

3 WEEKS IN THE FRIDGE?! The only thing that lasts that long in there are vegetables.

 

[EJay]

3 WEEKS IN THE FRIDGE?! The only thing that lasts that long in there are vegetables.

Mike - I do BIAB and get decent clarity with US05:

• Kettle: Whirlfloc (same rate as you)
• Fermenter: Cold crash, then gelatin, then a couple more days in fridge
• Rack carefully to bottling bucket
• Bottle: 3ish weeks room temperature conditioning, followed by fridge time. Is usually pretty clear before it even goes into fridge though.
• Glass: I'm careful when I pour to leave the last 1/2 ounce or so in the bottle. I don't usually get he nice 'stuck-to-the-bottom' yeast that some gets, it tends to be a little chunky, which I think is either a characteristic of US05 or a byproduct of either the whirlflock or gelatin.

In the only competition I entered, judges gave me max points for clarity, head, and color. They hated everything else

 

[Yooper]

Mike - I do BIAB and get decent clarity with US05:

• Kettle: Whirlfloc (same rate as you)
• Fermenter: Cold crash, then gelatin, then a couple more days in fridge
• Rack carefully to bottling bucket
• Bottle: 3ish weeks room temperature conditioning, followed by fridge time. Is usually pretty clear before it even goes into fridge though.
• Glass: I'm careful when I pour to leave the last 1/2 ounce or so in the bottle. I don't usually get he nice 'stuck-to-the-bottom' yeast that some gets, it tends to be a little chunky, which I think is either a characteristic of US05 or a byproduct of either the whirlflock or gelatin.

In the only competition I entered, judges gave me max points for clarity, head, and color. They hated everything else

Yeah, my hoppy beers (well, actually most of my beers.......) are gone by three weeks after they are packaged, not going into the fridge, so maybe I just don't have the patience to use S05 without filtering or fining.

 

[OkanaganMike]

Mike - I do BIAB and get decent clarity with US05:

• Kettle: Whirlfloc (same rate as you)
• Fermenter: Cold crash, then gelatin, then a couple more days in fridge
• Rack carefully to bottling bucket
• Bottle: 3ish weeks room temperature conditioning, followed by fridge time. Is usually pretty clear before it even goes into fridge though.
• Glass: I'm careful when I pour to leave the last 1/2 ounce or so in the bottle. I don't usually get he nice 'stuck-to-the-bottom' yeast that some gets, it tends to be a little chunky, which I think is either a characteristic of US05 or a byproduct of either the whirlflock or gelatin.

In the only competition I entered, judges gave me max points for clarity, head, and color. They hated everything else

Hmmmm. This is great, I'm learning a lot here. I thought cold crashing was typically in place of using whirlfloc, isinglasss etc. So after you use 1/2 whirlfloc, how long before you cold crash and add gelatin? How much and for how long? Those are 2 steps I'm not doing but would consider to make it clear for presentation. Personally, it doesn't matter for my enjoyment, but none of my buddies do this and hold home brew in a class of yeasty, muddy, off flavoured swill. I love the flavor of the 2 I've tried and can tell you its far from their thoughts. I just want it to be all it can be when I'm presenting my craft.

 

[olotti]

Yeah, my hoppy beers (well, actually most of my beers.......) are gone by three weeks after they are packaged, not going into the fridge, so maybe I just don't have the patience to use S05 without filtering or fining.

In your experience Does wlp001 have the same slow floccing issue that us-05 has even with a starter. And since you don't use 05 due to this issue what yeast do u prefer instead for your IPAs and apa's. Just curious.

 

[EJay]

Hmmmm. This is great, I'm learning a lot here. I thought cold crashing was typically in place of using whirlfloc, isinglasss etc. So after you use 1/2 whirlfloc, how long before you cold crash and add gelatin? How much and for how long? Those are 2 steps I'm not doing but would consider to make it clear for presentation. Personally, it doesn't matter for my enjoyment, but none of my buddies do this and hold home brew in a class of yeasty, muddy, off flavoured swill. I love the flavor of the 2 I've tried and can tell you its far from their thoughts. I just want it to be all it can be when I'm presenting my craft.

Whilrfloc is in the kettle. After fermentation, I cold crash for a day or two, then add gelatin.

I follow the instructions here. I let it work a day or two then I bottle.

 

[Yooper]

In your experience Does wlp001 have the same slow floccing issue that us-05 has even with a starter. And since you don't use 05 due to this issue what yeast do u prefer instead for your IPAs and apa's. Just curious.

WLP001 seems to be much better at clearing up sooner. I also don't mind it fermented cool, but I dislike S05 fermented under 65 degrees. I will use WLP001 a lot, it's my preferred American strain, and I really like a platinum (limited time ) strain right now by Wyeast called Wyeast 1217 that is described as:

"This strain is ideally suited to the production of west-coast style American craft beers, especially pale, IPA, red, and specialties. Thorough attenuation, temp tolerance, and good flocculation make this an easy strain to work with. Flavor is balanced neutral with mild ester formation at warmer temps, allowing hops, character malts, and flavorings to show through."

I also like Wyeast 1335, which is an English strain but it finishes drier and without a ton of esters.

I recently have been using Omega's OLY-004, which is said to be related to or like the Chico strains, and that worked well but still not as flocculant as I'd like.

 

[olotti]

WLP001 seems to be much better at clearing up sooner. I also don't mind it fermented cool, but I dislike S05 fermented under 65 degrees. I will use WLP001 a lot, it's my preferred American strain, and I really like a platinum (limited time ) strain right now by Wyeast called Wyeast 1217 that is described as:

"This strain is ideally suited to the production of west-coast style American craft beers, especially pale, IPA, red, and specialties. Thorough attenuation, temp tolerance, and good flocculation make this an easy strain to work with. Flavor is balanced neutral with mild ester formation at warmer temps, allowing hops, character malts, and flavorings to show through."

I also like Wyeast 1335, which is an English strain but it finishes drier and without a ton of esters.

I recently have been using Omega's OLY-004, which is said to be related to or like the Chico strains, and that worked well but still not as flocculant as I'd like.

Thanks for the reply. I've been using my washed 001 a lot lately and have been real happy with it. It seems to take off even at lower 60s pitching temps and I like the fact since I don't have a ferm chamber I can just let it do its thing And I always seem to get great attenuation. Doesn't have the slow lag time either like 05. I'm gonna see if I can't find some of that 1217, that sounds like a good one.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the reply. I've been using my washed 001 a lot lately and have been real happy with it. It seems to take off even at lower 60s pitching temps and I like the fact since I don't have a ferm chamber I can just let it do its thing And I always seem to get great attenuation. Doesn't have the slow lag time either like 05. I'm gonna see if I can't find some of that 1217, that sounds like a good one.

The 1217 was last quarter's special strain, so unfortunately if you find some now it'd be ancient. But maybe it will be re-released since I love it! I have a few jars of it that I harvested, so I'll be using it later this week when I brew.

I know 'everybody' says that WLP001, Wyeast 1056, and S05 are the same strain but I don't believe that. I mean, yes, it may have started out as the same Chico strain initially, or a variant of it, but I do notice differences, particularly between S05 and WLP0001.

For dry yeast, I like BRY-97 more than S05 in American style beers, but I don't love either one.

I drink my beers fairly young, and insist on clarity, so S05 is usually disappointing for me.

A couple of other things about clarity I thought about- one is for a all-grain brewers, enough calcium for the yeast to flocculate helps. While you don't want to overdo the calcium, I've noticed that a level of 80-90ppm really helps with clarity in the final beer. Of course, mash conversion and mash pH play a crucial role, and the proper kettle pH means a better hot and cold break, for clearer beer in the end also.