wheres the error in my brewday?

[rockdemon]

Bottled the pale ale and it seemed fine.
Bottled the dubbel and it tasted nothing at all, really weird.

When I skipped my sparging routine i got really bad efficiency. went from around 80% to below 70%. So Ill go back to my old sparging routine.
I was really hoping for more esters, i didnt aerate as much as i usually do just to see if it would give me more esters but it doenst seem so.

 

[rockdemon]

10 days ago i brewed an ipa(us-05) and a belgian tripel(white labs abbey ale). This time I had campden powder that i used in the brewing water before i started heating it up for mashing.
I did the same routine on both, after 8 days the ipa had gone from 1062-1010(perfect). And the tripel from 1070-1005(also perfect). The ipa tasted awesome but that damn tripel tasted like crap. It was a lot of sulphur smell so hopefully the whole beer will become tastier next time ill try. Ill wait until week 3 before i taste it again but i have very low expectations. The only difference in how Ive handled the two brews is that i have controlled the temperature on the tripel(62f-77f over the course of 6 days) while the ipa has just been stading in the room(62f-72f on its own)

 

[ThomasPaine]

It doesn't really seem like you had temp controlled. The abbey ale yeast isn't meant to ferment over 72 degrees.

 

[rockdemon]

It doesn't really seem like you had temp controlled. The abbey ale yeast isn't meant to ferment over 72 degrees.

Most of the recipes Ive seen has something like ths very popular recipe of a westvleteren 12 clone:
Ramp fermentation temp (evenly over time) from 63 - 80F over 7 days
Or these from Candisyrup.com:

Chill to 64F. Pitch yeast. Pure O2 via 0.5
micron diffusion for 90 seconds. Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days.
-St. Feullien clone

Ramp primary from 64F to 76F through 7 days - abt 12 clone.


Ramp primary 7 days from 64F to 76F until reaching
terminal gravity. -La trappe tripel clone

Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days. -westmalle tripel clone

So it seems to me that its quite a normal way of doing it with the wlp530...

And according to all that Ive read a higher temp(although it sholdnt get too high of course) will increase esters and give better attenuation

 

[ballsy]

10 days ago i brewed an ipa(us-05) and a belgian tripel(white labs abbey ale). This time I had campden powder that i used in the brewing water before i started heating it up for mashing.
I did the same routine on both, after 8 days the ipa had gone from 1062-1010(perfect). And the tripel from 1070-1005(also perfect). The ipa tasted awesome but that damn tripel tasted like crap. It was a lot of sulphur smell so hopefully the whole beer will become tastier next time ill try. Ill wait until week 3 before i taste it again but i have very low expectations. The only difference in how Ive handled the two brews is that i have controlled the temperature on the tripel(62f-77f over the course of 6 days) while the ipa has just been stading in the room(62f-72f on its own)

I would have thought chloramines too....hopefully campden helps it. My confusion lies in how you are brewing fast turn around beers (pales, IPAs) at same time as big beers which require months of condition before they are ready to drink (stouts, Belgian tripels....), and comparing the tastes of the two at the same time. That tripel you are tasting shouldn't be analyzed until at least 90 days out to give it any fair chance.

 

[rockdemon]

I would have thought chloramines too....hopefully campden helps it. My confusion lies in how you are brewing fast turn around beers (pales, IPAs) at same time as big beers which require months of condition before they are ready to drink (stouts, Belgian tripels....), and comparing the tastes of the two at the same time. That tripel you are tasting shouldn't be analyzed until at least 90 days out to give it any fair chance.

well its because i was going to check the gravity of the IPA, and since i had the equipment out and sanitized i wanted to check how the tripel was doing at the same time. I was very curious becaue ive had failure after failure with almost every belgian attempt ive made. My succeful stouts has tasted great after 1-2 weeks into fermentation. Of course I havent bottled them then but Ive tasted the gravity sample.

Ive had probably 9-10 really bad batches of different belgian beers. I dont mean bad as in "New Belgium Abbey bad" i mean bad as in "I have to pour this crap out". And thats what Ive done.

And the beers that has been great or at least ok has been ok already after a week or two into fermentation...

 

[ballsy]

well its because i was going to check the gravity of the IPA, and since i had the equipment out and sanitized i wanted to check how the tripel was doing at the same time. I was very curious becaue ive had failure after failure with almost every belgian attempt ive made. My succeful stouts has tasted great after 1-2 weeks into fermentation. Of course I havent bottled them then but Ive tasted the gravity sample.

Ive had probably 9-10 really bad batches of different belgian beers. I dont mean bad as in "New Belgium Abbey bad" i mean bad as in "I have to pour this crap out". And thats what Ive done.

And the beers that has been great or at least ok has been ok already after a week or two into fermentation...

I understand, I remember reading that you have given some of these months and months...and still they remained nasty. For these recent ones, where you are changing your process to narrow down the source of your problem I only urge you to give those adequate time prior to making a final impression...

 

[rockdemon]

I understand, I remember reading that you have given some of these months and months...and still they remained nasty. For these recent ones, where you are changing your process to narrow down the source of your problem I only urge you to give those adequate time prior to making a final impression...

Yeah, as long as i dont get that nasty*ss band-aid chloramine flavor I will definitely bottle and age. A tripel i made 14 months ago tasted only like band-aid and some bittering hops but now it actually tasted like belgian band-aid so that was impressive. I could actually drink like half a bottle of it after I had a couple of beers first.

And about aging. A guy here made a tripel that he thought was a failure( no off flavors but just really dull), he put all the bottles in the basement and forgot about them, a year later he tried one, noticed that it was great and won a national championship with it...

 

[303Dan]

Ive had probably 9-10 really bad batches of different belgian beers. I dont mean bad as in "New Belgium Abbey bad" i mean bad as in "I have to pour this crap out". And thats what Ive done.

Sorry, don't want to derail your thread, but this caught me off guard. Are we calling New Belgium Abbey a bad beer these days? I mean you're talking about the most award winning beer from one of the most respected craft breweries in the US. I think it's won like 4 World Beer Cup medals and 8 Great American Beer Fest medals or something like that?

That being said, they did change the recipe in 2015 and I think they ruined it. Not surprising, I really don't like much of anything New Belgium has done different or new in the last 5 years or so. I don't like how they've changed. But the original Abbey is a fine beer, IMO.

Anyway, carry on. Just surprised to see that beer referred to in such a negative light.

Dan

 

[ThomasPaine]

Most of the recipes Ive seen has something like ths very popular recipe of a westvleteren 12 clone:

Ramp fermentation temp (evenly over time) from 63 - 80F over 7 days

Or these from Candisyrup.com:



Chill to 64F. Pitch yeast. Pure O2 via 0.5

micron diffusion for 90 seconds. Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days.

-St. Feullien clone



Ramp primary from 64F to 76F through 7 days - abt 12 clone.





Ramp primary 7 days from 64F to 76F until reaching

terminal gravity. -La trappe tripel clone



Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days. -westmalle tripel clone



So it seems to me that its quite a normal way of doing it with the wlp530...



And according to all that Ive read a higher temp(although it sholdnt get too high of course) will increase esters and give better attenuation

Ok, sorry. I didn't understand that you were manually adjusting the temp. Just thought it was fluctuating between those temps. I would say that at 6 days, your fermentation is still going and the co2 hasn't had a chance to carry the sulfur smell out.

 

[The_Bishop]

How much metabisulfite are you adding? You only need a pinch; too much is not 'better' and will give you sulfur bombs.

 

[rockdemon]

Sorry, don't want to derail your thread, but this caught me off guard. Are we calling New Belgium Abbey a bad beer these days? I mean you're talking about the most award winning beer from one of the most respected craft breweries in the US. I think it's won like 4 World Beer Cup medals and 8 Great American Beer Fest medals or something like that?

That being said, they did change the recipe in 2015 and I think they ruined it. Not surprising, I really don't like much of anything New Belgium has done different or new in the last 5 years or so. I don't like how they've changed. But the original Abbey is a fine beer, IMO.

Anyway, carry on. Just surprised to see that beer referred to in such a negative light.

Dan

Ive never tried the earlier version of the beer. First time it got imported to sweden was last year i think. And as i usually consume belgian beer exclusively(sometimes I like an american lager for ex. bbq dishes or burgers) I was surprised that the N B Abbey tasted nothing like a belgian beer to me. In its defense I had at the time just gotten home from a brewery trip to belgium and had 6 cases of different fresh belgian beers, so I probably had my standard very high.

When it comes to the World Cup awards Ive never really understood how that works. Some of the really horrible, cheapest beer we have here(that pretty much only drunks buy) has won medals there and when it comes to specific styles its strange to me that not the same beer wins every time.
Im checking the winners from 2014 and to me its very confusing. I havent tried the beers that has won but from my experience the best belgian beers are belgian. Maybe the jury doesnt like belgian beer to begin with? I have no idea...

Category 57: Belgian-Style Blonde Ale or Pale Ale, 46 Entries
Gold: Blonde Fatale, Peace Tree Brewing Co., Knoxville, IA
Silver: St. Stusan Belgian Style Pale Ale, Galaxy Brewing Co., Binghamton, NY
Bronze: Jean-Claude Van Blond, Wit’s End Brewing Co., Denver, CO

Category 59: Belgian-Style Flanders Oud Bruin or Oud Red Ale, 28 Entries
Silver: Oude Tart, The Bruery, Anaheim, CA
Bronze: Shadows of Their Eyes, The Rare Barrel, Berkeley, CA

Category 60: Belgian-Style Dubbel, 35 Entries
Gold: Wäls Dubbel, Wäls Cervejaria, Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Silver: Gerardus Wittems Kloosterbier Dubbel, Gulpener Bierbrouwerij, Gulpen, Netherlands
Bronze: Brother David’s Double, Anderson Valley Brewing Co., Boonville, CA

Category 61: Belgian-Style Tripel, 59 Entries
Gold: Candi Belgian Tripel, Dominion Brewing Co., Dover, DE
Silver: Steamworks Blitzen, Steamworks Brewing Co., Burnaby, Canada
Bronze: Delirium Tremens, Brouwerij Huyghe, Melle, Belgium

Category 62: Belgian-Style Pale Strong Ale, 41 Entries
Gold: Devil’s Thumb, Rock Bottom - Orland Park, Orland Park, IL
Silver: Deceit, Funkwerks, Fort Collins, CO
Bronze: Thor’s Hammer, Bastone Brewery, Royal Oak, MI

Category 63: Belgian-Style Dark Strong Ale, 44 Entries
Gold: Hertog Jan Grand Prestige, Hertog Jan Brouwerij, Arcen, Netherlands
Silver: 3rd Anniversary, Airways Brewing Co., Kent, WA
Bronze: 4 Swords Belgian Style Quad, Deep Ellum Brewing Co., Dallas, TX

Category 64: Other Belgian-Style Ale, 55 Entries
Gold: Cerasus, Logsdon Organic Farm Brewery, Hood River, OR
Silver: Wäls Quadruppel, Wäls Cervejaria, Belo Horizonte, Brazil
Bronze: Golden Sabbath, Big Island Brewhaus, Kamuela

If you would for ex look at http://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/style/142/ its strange that not Hertog Jan Grand Prestige, Hertog Jan Brouwerij, Arcen, Netherlands isnt even there if its the best quad in the world?
Or for ex that the beer that defines a saison and is the best saison in the world is not Saison Dupont but "Saison, Aspen Brewing Co., Aspen, CO"
Im reading about how the whole competition works and looking at the different winners and im utterly confused about the whole thing...

 

[rockdemon]

How much metabisulfite are you adding? You only need a pinch; too much is not 'better' and will give you sulfur bombs.

I think i used between 1 and 2 grams. It said 2 grams for 5 gal batch and i made a 3.something batch

 

[The_Bishop]

You only need a tenth a gram in the worst case scenario for chloramine removal. Use the scientific 'small pinch' and you're good.

 

[rockdemon]

You only need a tenth a gram in the worst case scenario for chloramine removal. Use the scientific 'small pinch' and you're good.

oooh, thanks alot! next time i go with the small pinch instead! Probably the 1-2 grams is when you use it against wild yeast... thanks!

 

[303Dan]

Ive never tried the earlier version of the beer. First time it got imported to sweden was last year i think. And as i usually consume belgian beer exclusively(sometimes I like an american lager for ex. bbq dishes or burgers) I was surprised that the N B Abbey tasted nothing like a belgian beer to me. In its defense I had at the time just gotten home from a brewery trip to belgium and had 6 cases of different fresh belgian beers, so I probably had my standard very high.

When it comes to the World Cup awards Ive never really understood how that works. Some of the really horrible, cheapest beer we have here(that pretty much only drunks buy) has won medals there and when it comes to specific styles its strange to me that not the same beer wins every time.
Im checking the winners from 2014 and to me its very confusing. I havent tried the beers that has won but from my experience the best belgian beers are belgian. Maybe the jury doesnt like belgian beer to begin with? I have no idea...

..................

If you would for ex look at http://www.beeradvocate.com/lists/style/142/ its strange that not Hertog Jan Grand Prestige, Hertog Jan Brouwerij, Arcen, Netherlands isnt even there if its the best quad in the world?
Or for ex that the beer that defines a saison and is the best saison in the world is not Saison Dupont but "Saison, Aspen Brewing Co., Aspen, CO"
Im reading about how the whole competition works and looking at the different winners and im utterly confused about the whole thing...

Well, first off, if what you tried was the new/updated recipe (i.e. - Sept 2015 or later), then I am less surprised by your impression of the beer. As I said, I dislike what they did to it.

By the way, I'm not trying to say that New Belgium Abbey is better than, or even on par with, the greatest examples of the style brewed in Belgium. I'm just saying that calling it a bad beer is pure hyperbole.

As to the WBC and GABF, I don't believe they are the end-all-be-all of judging the quality of a beer. In fact, for the WBC, I'm pretty sure the brewery actually has to pay for their beer to be judged and obviously a lot of competition is not accounted for for that reason. And if a beer wins a medal once, I think you can easily chalk it up to a fluke. But when a beer wins medals on 12 different occasions against hundreds of other beers with, presumably, some pretty good palates doing the judging, I think you can conclude that it's a pretty good beer overall and a good representation of the style.

I give even less weight to beeradvocate ratings, by the way. Look at their top 100 beers in the world list. I think about 90 of them are some form of an IPA (a good portion of which are made within a couple hundred miles of where beeradvocate is headquartered) and the other 10 are Imperial Stouts. Makes it hard to take seriously. That being said, beeradvocate ratings are pretty darn favorable for New Belgium Abbey.

Anyway, I'm going off on a rant now and I honestly didn't want to hijack your thread. I'll stand down.

 

[rockdemon]

Ok so I got rid of chloramine with campden but I still have a problem with flavor and aroma. i dont get the spicy belgian flavor/aroma but instead i get a very yeasty taste. Right now im brewing a belgian blonde as a test to see if this does the trick. No sugar, just pilsner and carapils and then im gonna keep the fermentation temperature much lower than my other belgian attempts. Im gonna keep it at 64F the first two days and then let it slowly rise to about 70-71F...