wheres the error in my brewday?

[rockdemon]

Im failing over and over again and im trying to pinpoint where im doing wrong. Some beers have turned out great but for some reason ive failed everytime im trying to make a belgian beer.
Im gonna try to explain my routine the best i can by using a simple recipe for a half batch(10L):

I start with filling my fermentor bucket with water and starsan and dump the stuff im going to use post boil in it to make everytime sanitized.

I measure the malt, hops, irish moss and yeast nutrition.

I warm 10L water to 72C and then put my biab bag in there and then gently stirr the malt in it. i check the mashtemp and then put the lid on and wait for 80-90 minutes. then pour the mash to another bucket and use 6L of 75C water that i pour through the biab in my brewpan to get a higher OG. guess its sparging.

I sqeeze all the liquid from the biab and add the other 10L of liquid to the pan to get about 14 L of liquid. I bring it to a boil with the lid on and then follow the hops/moss/nutrition schedule.

When the boiling is finished I put the pan in a big bath of cold water which i change a couple of times until the beer is at the right temperature.

Then i use double colianders on top of each other, one http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/stainless-steel-colander-22255836.jpg and one pasta coliander and then i pour the beer through that into the fermentation bucket. This is my way of both getting rid of all the boiled hops and airating the wort at the same time. I then add my yeast and put the lid on and a airlock with some cheap gin in it.

by smelling the airlock i can first only sense hops, then yeast but after a couple of days, maybe four, it doenst smell nice anymore.

The beer often has about the same off flavor/aroma. I cant really explain it, its a harsh unpleasant taste. Ive poured out 7 or 8 batches because theyve been literally undrinkable. Ive tried waiting 6-7 month before pouring out the bottles. Ive even had 1 year old bottles that still tasted horrible.

Ive made 2 stouts that have been wonderful and my cascade pale ale is always good. I just dont understand what happens to my belgians. Ive tried super complicated 5-6 malt based recipes, ive tried spices, abbey yeast, saison yeasts, you name it...

Edit: I just got the idea that it could be that i cant get the colianders completely clean? Its the same colianders as i use in the kitchen and maybe just washing them and star saning them isnt enough, that there is still some bacteria hiding in the metallic coliander. could that be the issue?

 

[JonM]

What's your water like?

 

[rockdemon]

What's your water like?

Its supposed to be what we call soft water. ph around 8.5 and dH around 4-6. i use http://www.morebeer.com/products/52-ph-stabilizer-1-lb.html in the mash ever since i got a batch that tasted abit sour.

 

[Gavin C]

I measure the malt, hops, irish moss and yeast nutrition.

I warm 10L water to 72C and then put my biab bag in there and then gently stirr the malt in it. i check the mashtemp and then put the lid on and wait for 80-90 minutes. then pour the mash to another bucket and use 6L of 75C water that i pour through the biab in my brewpan to get a higher OG. guess its sparging.

I sqeeze all the liquid from the biab and add the other 10L of liquid to the pan to get about 14 L of liquid. I bring it to a boil with the lid on and then follow the hops/moss/nutrition schedule.

Then i use double colianders on top of each other, one http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/stainless-steel-colander-22255836.jpg and one pasta coliander and then i pour the beer through that into the fermentation bucket. This is my way of both getting rid of all the boiled hops and airating the wort at the same time. I then add my yeast and put the lid on and a airlock with some cheap gin in it.

The beer often has about the same off flavor/aroma. I cant really explain it, its a harsh unpleasant taste. Ive poured out 7 or 8 batches because theyve been literally undrinkable. Ive tried waiting 6-7 month before pouring out the bottles. Ive even had 1 year old bottles that still tasted horrible.

Ive made 2 stouts that have been wonderful and my cascade pale ale is always good. I just dont understand what happens to my belgians. Ive tried super complicated 5-6 malt based recipes, ive tried spices, abbey yeast, saison yeasts, you name it...

Edit: I just got the idea that it could be that i cant get the colianders completely clean? Its the same colianders as i use in the kitchen and maybe just washing them and star saning them isnt enough, that there is still some bacteria hiding in the metallic coliander. could that be the issue?

I presume you're boiling with the lid off.

More than enough yeast nutrient in the malt. Yeast nutrient is really not needed in the boil. Used it a couple of times myself before seeing the pointless nature of the product. (I do use a pinch in starters)

Harsh flavors can often equate with astringency. Water being too hard is often a cause in lighter beers but less of a problem in darker beers.

Your mash process sounds needlessly complicated. Not sure wht you're describing exactly.

Lose the collanders, sounds like a bad idea on the cool side of things.

Undrinkable batches could mean infection from any number of sources after the boil up to and including bottling/kegging.

I see no mention of yeast management or fermentation profiles. These are critically important for tasty beers.

I would not be using my FV bucket for sanitizing things. What all are you sanitizing? Bucket, lid and airlock and your collanders which I would ditch. What else is there?

These are just some things that stick out or are omitted. Hope you get things sorted out.

 

[JonM]

Ah. Well, I hate to break it to you but that 5.2 stabilizer doesn't work.

My best guess is that the stouts and the pale ale (which I'm guessing has a good helping of crystal malt) have enough dark grains to add acidity to even out the water's high-ish pH. Belgians, because they're probably mostly if not all light grains, leave you with too high a mash pH.

Try this - esp the part about adding saurmalz and calcium chloride.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

Also are you controlling fermentation temperature?

 

[Gavin C]

Ah. Well, I hate to break it to you but that 5.2 stabilizer doesn't work.

+1

Not only does it not work but it means you are adding lost of extra Na+ ions in this "magic" powder that renders all other water chemistry products obselete.

Complete junk. Toss it.

I've been there, done that. It's mentioned as one of the common pitfalls in this thread. Another good read.

 

[m00ps]

I also agree you are most likely not managing your yeast properly

Belgian beers are ALL about yeast flavors. You need a proper pitch rate and fermentation handling to keep the yeast happy. That being said, most Belgian strains barely require fermentation temperature control, but Im guessing it has a lot to do with the amount and health of yeast you are pitching

 

[cooper]

I agree with everything above as well.

Something else to consider is cleaning your ball valve every few batches (if you're using one) as it can get quite gunky in there and cause off flavors.

The main thing that I would do is to get a pH meter and test the pH level of your water (and that's needs to include your sparge water as well) before you add the grain in and get it down to a room temperature pH of 5.5 with either Lactic or Phosphoric acid. Then add your grains and continue on with your regular process.

I would also stop using the colanders as the rest of the gunk will settle out just fine in the fermenter, no problem.

 

[Gavin C]

I agree with everything above as well.

Something else to consider is cleaning your ball valve every few batches (if you're using one) as it can get quite gunky in there and cause off flavors.

The main thing that I would do is to get a pH meter and test the pH level of your water (and that's needs to include your sparge water as well) before you add the grain in and get it down to a room temperature pH of 5.5 with either Lactic or Phosphoric acid. Then add your grains and continue on with your regular process.

I would also stop using the colanders as the rest of the gunk will settle out just fine in the fermenter, no problem.

Knowing the pH of the water will tell you almost nothing of use. Water pH and suitability for brewing are not linked. A known pH in addition to knowing the various mineral content is useful as it is needed to calculate other variable like residual alkalinity and total hardness.

It's like being lost in the desert and knowing there is a stream 5 miles away but not knowing in what direction it lies. Knowing the full picture will be hugely beneficial. Just knowing the first part can lead you to make a serious error.

Mash pH is important. No one's going to disaggree with that but just knowing the pH of the water used is no use whatsoever.

 

[rockdemon]

I presume you're boiling with the lid off.

More than enough yeast nutrient in the malt. Yeast nutrient is really not needed in the boil. Used it a couple of times myself before seeing the pointless nature of the product. (I do use a pinch in starters)

Harsh flavors can often equate with astringency. Water being too hard is often a cause in lighter beers but less of a problem in darker beers.

Your mash process sounds needlessly complicated. Not sure wht you're describing exactly.

Lose the collanders, sounds like a bad idea on the cool side of things.

Undrinkable batches could mean infection from any number of sources after the boil up to and including bottling/kegging.

I see no mention of yeast management or fermentation profiles. These are critically important for tasty beers.

I would not be using my FV bucket for sanitizing things. What all are you sanitizing? Bucket, lid and airlock and your collanders which I would ditch. What else is there?

These are just some things that stick out or are omitted. Hope you get things sorted out.

ok, no nutrients in the boil from now on.

When it comes to mashing. I used to add boiling water at the end to get to the mash out temp i wanted but then i read somewhere that boiling water and grains could lead to off-flavors so so now im mashing out separately with 75 degree water.

when it comes to yeast i´ve tried overpitching,underpitching and normal pitching. both with liquid and dry yeast. Ive also harvested commercial yeast. In my pale ale and stouts i keep temp down during fermentation. somewhere around 20C. with the belgians ive tried around 20C and let some go up to 26-28C.
Sometimes ive done 1 week primary and then secondary. well, ive tried a bunch of different times, with and without secondary fermentation.

Its never happened that the beer tastes good in the fermenter and then crap in the bottle. It always tastes like crap in the fermenter. Its quite common that when i open the fermenter on bottling day theres a glue-ish smell to it.

The things i put in starsan are the things you say.

Im having a real hard time to believe that its the water thats the problem. Ive tried beers from other homebrewers here that hasnt done anything to the water and its still good. If my beers where a little bit of, then sure, but theyre undrinkable.

Ill skip the colianders on my next brew day ill airate by using my home made paddle instead, and ill skip the nutrients in the boil aswell if theyre unneccessary.


the worst beer i ever made was completely clear, and when i poured it in a glass the carbonation was more like from a soda. fizzing and no head. It looked more like some kind of soda than a beer. really strange

 

[rockdemon]

Ah. Well, I hate to break it to you but that 5.2 stabilizer doesn't work.

My best guess is that the stouts and the pale ale (which I'm guessing has a good helping of crystal malt) have enough dark grains to add acidity to even out the water's high-ish pH. Belgians, because they're probably mostly if not all light grains, leave you with too high a mash pH.

Try this - esp the part about adding saurmalz and calcium chloride.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460

Also are you controlling fermentation temperature?

Ive tried the multigrain westvleteren clone and it turned out really bad aswell and it has:
13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 74.71 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.53 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2.77 %
0.33 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.83 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.38 %
0.19 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.05 %

and my pale ale is pilsner, munich and carapils/or wheat for better head.



What is a good grain/water ratio?

 

[cooper]

Getting the pH of the water to a reasonable level prior to mashing is important as you can make small adjustments 10 - 15 minutes into the mash to get your mash pH adjusted where you want. It's also important if you're sparging to have the pH adjusted below 6 to keep from extracting tannins while you're sparging.

I agree that it is very important to send off a sample of your water so you have all of the mineral content and can make other adjustments to account for high alkalinity but to say water pH isn't important is also setting yourself up for disappointment too.

 

[Gavin C]

This is what I would recommend.

I would make an extract batch +/- steeping grains and use distilled or RO water. A simple recipe such as a brow/pale/amber/red ale

Get a new FV. A bucket is fine.

Ferment it all in the bucket. Package as normal.


Then

Do it again with another extract recipe +/- steeping grains using your tap water

Get another FV so you can have a couple going.

Ferment them cool at about 17C (Beer temps not ambient temps)


On the tap water and the glue-ish smell. Chlorine/chloramine in the watr can be linked to a band-aid flavor. Chloramines are easily removed fom your tap water with Campden tablets. (Use 1/4) for your batch. Chlorine owing to its volatility will evaporate off. Just prep the water the night before brew day and leave the lid off the pot.

If both brews are fine it would point to an error in your mashing process and/or yeast management.

If the beers are not fine it would point to your sanitation regimen being flawed with infected batches being the culprit.

.

 

[jddevinn]

I second the water profile suggestion. Send a sample out and correct to the style.

Belgains are all about yest. Are all your Belgians "big beers"? Is the only aeration you are doing pouring through the strainers? The yeast need lots of O2 to start strong (and get the flavor profile you want). Aerate well, or even better blast with oxygen and a diffusing stone. With "bigger" beers I give a second blast of O2 after about 12 hours.

 

[TheMadKing]

The fact that your off flavors aren't presenting themselves until about 4 day hints that your yeast is either producing the flavor from compounds in your water, it is fermenting at a drastically wrong temperature, or your yeast handling before pitching is a problem.

Do you make yeast starters? If so, what is your process there?

Can you try to describe the flavor a bit more? Is it a chemicals/burnt rubber/olive juice, or more like bandages/superglue?

Also, is the flavor totally undetectable in all darker beers?

And does it only occur with Belgian yeasts? (As in, have you made a lighter colored beer with a non-belgian yeast and still had the issue?)

 

[dwhite60]

Not meaning to insult your intelligence.

How many different Belgian style beers have you consumed?
It could be what you're getting is just the normal taste profile for
a Belgian beer. They can be pretty funky both in flavor and aroma.
Stout possibly, but I can't imagine the level of odor/flavor you describe
not coming through in the pale ale.

I'm just asking the question. No harm intended.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[rockdemon]

Not meaning to insult your intelligence.

How many different Belgian style beers have you consumed?
It could be what you're getting is just the normal taste profile for
a Belgian beer. They can be pretty funky both in flavor and aroma.
Stout possibly, but I can't imagine the level of odor/flavor you describe
not coming through in the pale ale.

I'm just asking the question. No harm intended.

All the Best,
D. White

Dont worry im not offended. Im a huge belgian beer freak, its pretty much the only beer i buy. im also a vip member at swedens biggest belgian bar(+800 diff kinds) and i get 12 big bottles of exclusive beers directly from belgium 4 times a year and ive visited a bunch of breweries in belgium. so i know what i want so to speak...

 

[rockdemon]

The fact that your off flavors aren't presenting themselves until about 4 day hints that your yeast is either producing the flavor from compounds in your water, it is fermenting at a drastically wrong temperature, or your yeast handling before pitching is a problem.

Do you make yeast starters? If so, what is your process there?

Can you try to describe the flavor a bit more? Is it a chemicals/burnt rubber/olive juice, or more like bandages/superglue?

Also, is the flavor totally undetectable in all darker beers?

And does it only occur with Belgian yeasts? (As in, have you made a lighter colored beer with a non-belgian yeast and still had the issue?)

Ive done yeast starters and ive tried pitching directly, ive tried the different ways of handling dry yeasts aswell.

the yeast starters Ive made smells goo and healthy yeast so its not detectable there, although ive never had a yeast starter going on the stirrplate for more than 3-4 days max.

the weird thing is that ive only gotten it in belgian beers, for a while i thought that it had something to do with sugar/candi syrup so i made beers without that but still the same.

The odour and taste is there in my dubbels and belgian dark strong aswell.

My american pale ale never gets those off flavors. I have no idea why, maybe the hops takes over somehow.

I think ill have to open one of the worst beers ive made and try to destinguish the smell when i get home. i believe its a bit of that band aid/ glue smell.

 

[rockdemon]

I second the water profile suggestion. Send a sample out and correct to the style.

Belgains are all about yest. Are all your Belgians "big beers"? Is the only aeration you are doing pouring through the strainers? The yeast need lots of O2 to start strong (and get the flavor profile you want). Aerate well, or even better blast with oxygen and a diffusing stone. With "bigger" beers I give a second blast of O2 after about 12 hours.

This is supposedly my water profile: sorry its in swedish but might be understandable anyways:
http://www.stockholmvatten.se/globa...t/kval-dekl-nor-2014-med-logga-2015-03-23.pdf

On my next brewday (wednesday next week) Ill do some adjustments, and i will also use bleach i my fermenter bucket for a couple of days before and then really try to get all that bleach out. Im gonna be extra sanitary in everyway i can think of and i will use a camden pill in my mash water and not use the strainers/colianders. Ill also try to keep the temp down at 18-20C for the first few days of fermentation.

 

[JonM]

That's some pretty darn soft water. Looks good.

Are there chloramines/chlorine in your water? I couldn't tell. If so, that can lead to a nasty off-flavor.

 

[TheMadKing]

If you are ONLY getting the flavor when using Belgian yeasts that's very interesting indeed.

Maybe your supplier of Belgian yeasts has bad stock and you could try a different supplier?

Another experiment would be to exactly replicate one of your Belgian beer recipes and pitch a non Belgian yeast and see what happens.

It's entirely possible that Belgian yeast flavors just don't agree with you. I personally don't like them at all. I've never had a Belgian beer that I liked.

 

[geoffm33]

You are starting the boil with 14L for a 10L batch? I wonder if part of the issue is that it's watered down (unless you are burning off 40ish % in the boil). Are your gravity readings normal for what you are going for?

Can you post a grain bill with gravity readings from one of the batches?

 

[Gavin C]

You are starting the boil with 14L for a 10L batch? I wonder if part of the issue is that it's watered down (unless you are burning off 40ish % in the boil). Are your gravity readings normal for what you are going for?

Can you post a grain bill with gravity readings from one of the batches?

That's roughly a gallon boil off. Nothing odd about that.

 

[kombat]

Ive tried the multigrain westvleteren clone and it turned out really bad aswell and it has:
13.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 74.71 %
1.00 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 5.53 %
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 2.77 %
0.33 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 1.83 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.38 %
0.19 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.05 %

In your OP, you mention you're brewing half-size batches, 10L.

Is this an un-scaled 21L recipe, or is this the actual recipe you're using for a 10L batch? Because if it's the latter, I think I've figured out what your problem is - you're ending up with an outrageous ABV, and what you're tasting is harsh, boozy alcohol.

 

[geoffm33]

That's roughly a gallon boil off. Nothing odd about that.

Gotcha.

 

[Gavin C]

In your OP, you mention you're brewing half-size batches, 10L.

Is this an un-scaled 21L recipe, or is this the actual recipe you're using for a 10L batch? Because if it's the latter, I think I've figured out what your problem is - you're ending up with an outrageous ABV, and what you're tasting is harsh, boozy alcohol.

Could it be that simple? :smack:

 

[dwhite60]

Dont worry im not offended. Im a huge belgian beer freak, its pretty much the only beer i buy. im also a vip member at swedens biggest belgian bar(+800 diff kinds) and i get 12 big bottles of exclusive beers directly from belgium 4 times a year and ive visited a bunch of breweries in belgium. so i know what i want so to speak...

Now you've got me jealous.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[dwhite60]

Could it be that simple? :smack:

Sometimes the simple answer is the correct answer.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[rockdemon]

In your OP, you mention you're brewing half-size batches, 10L.

Is this an un-scaled 21L recipe, or is this the actual recipe you're using for a 10L batch? Because if it's the latter, I think I've figured out what your problem is - you're ending up with an outrageous ABV, and what you're tasting is harsh, boozy alcohol.

haha, sorry guys its not that simple, thats from the original 21L recipe here on homebrewtalk....
would have been great if it'd been that simple

 

[rockdemon]

I brewed 2 beers yesterday, my dubbel and my pale ale. Ive set up a bath with a aquarium heater for the dubbel. its right now at 20C and i will raise the temp 1 degree everyday until it reaches 26C. Im doing the fermentation schedule from CSIs westvleteren clone. Its going to be very interresting if all the changes Ive made will produce a great beer.
1- i skipped the sparging. just did BIAB for 90 min.
2- i had bleach in my fermentationbucket for a couple of days and then rinsed it very carefully and then had starsan solution in it for 2-3 hours.
3- I chilled the wort to 18C.
4- i didnt use a colander. i just poured the beer to the bucket from a distant to aerate it. (Ive read that you get more phenols with less aeration but less attenation, which is fine at this point)
5- im paying close attention to fermentation temperature. especially keeping it from going crazy the first 24H. and then ill steadily increase temp.
6- Im skipping the secondary just to be more careful about infection and stuff. Ill check gravity in about 3 weeks.

 

[rockdemon]

Bottled the pale ale and it seemed fine.
Bottled the dubbel and it tasted nothing at all, really weird.

When I skipped my sparging routine i got really bad efficiency. went from around 80% to below 70%. So Ill go back to my old sparging routine.
I was really hoping for more esters, i didnt aerate as much as i usually do just to see if it would give me more esters but it doenst seem so.

 

[rockdemon]

10 days ago i brewed an ipa(us-05) and a belgian tripel(white labs abbey ale). This time I had campden powder that i used in the brewing water before i started heating it up for mashing.
I did the same routine on both, after 8 days the ipa had gone from 1062-1010(perfect). And the tripel from 1070-1005(also perfect). The ipa tasted awesome but that damn tripel tasted like crap. It was a lot of sulphur smell so hopefully the whole beer will become tastier next time ill try. Ill wait until week 3 before i taste it again but i have very low expectations. The only difference in how Ive handled the two brews is that i have controlled the temperature on the tripel(62f-77f over the course of 6 days) while the ipa has just been stading in the room(62f-72f on its own)

 

[ThomasPaine]

It doesn't really seem like you had temp controlled. The abbey ale yeast isn't meant to ferment over 72 degrees.

 

[rockdemon]

It doesn't really seem like you had temp controlled. The abbey ale yeast isn't meant to ferment over 72 degrees.

Most of the recipes Ive seen has something like ths very popular recipe of a westvleteren 12 clone:
Ramp fermentation temp (evenly over time) from 63 - 80F over 7 days
Or these from Candisyrup.com:

Chill to 64F. Pitch yeast. Pure O2 via 0.5
micron diffusion for 90 seconds. Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days.
-St. Feullien clone

Ramp primary from 64F to 76F through 7 days - abt 12 clone.


Ramp primary 7 days from 64F to 76F until reaching
terminal gravity. -La trappe tripel clone

Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days. -westmalle tripel clone

So it seems to me that its quite a normal way of doing it with the wlp530...

And according to all that Ive read a higher temp(although it sholdnt get too high of course) will increase esters and give better attenuation

 

[ballsy]

10 days ago i brewed an ipa(us-05) and a belgian tripel(white labs abbey ale). This time I had campden powder that i used in the brewing water before i started heating it up for mashing.
I did the same routine on both, after 8 days the ipa had gone from 1062-1010(perfect). And the tripel from 1070-1005(also perfect). The ipa tasted awesome but that damn tripel tasted like crap. It was a lot of sulphur smell so hopefully the whole beer will become tastier next time ill try. Ill wait until week 3 before i taste it again but i have very low expectations. The only difference in how Ive handled the two brews is that i have controlled the temperature on the tripel(62f-77f over the course of 6 days) while the ipa has just been stading in the room(62f-72f on its own)

I would have thought chloramines too....hopefully campden helps it. My confusion lies in how you are brewing fast turn around beers (pales, IPAs) at same time as big beers which require months of condition before they are ready to drink (stouts, Belgian tripels....), and comparing the tastes of the two at the same time. That tripel you are tasting shouldn't be analyzed until at least 90 days out to give it any fair chance.

 

[rockdemon]

I would have thought chloramines too....hopefully campden helps it. My confusion lies in how you are brewing fast turn around beers (pales, IPAs) at same time as big beers which require months of condition before they are ready to drink (stouts, Belgian tripels....), and comparing the tastes of the two at the same time. That tripel you are tasting shouldn't be analyzed until at least 90 days out to give it any fair chance.

well its because i was going to check the gravity of the IPA, and since i had the equipment out and sanitized i wanted to check how the tripel was doing at the same time. I was very curious becaue ive had failure after failure with almost every belgian attempt ive made. My succeful stouts has tasted great after 1-2 weeks into fermentation. Of course I havent bottled them then but Ive tasted the gravity sample.

Ive had probably 9-10 really bad batches of different belgian beers. I dont mean bad as in "New Belgium Abbey bad" i mean bad as in "I have to pour this crap out". And thats what Ive done.

And the beers that has been great or at least ok has been ok already after a week or two into fermentation...

 

[ballsy]

well its because i was going to check the gravity of the IPA, and since i had the equipment out and sanitized i wanted to check how the tripel was doing at the same time. I was very curious becaue ive had failure after failure with almost every belgian attempt ive made. My succeful stouts has tasted great after 1-2 weeks into fermentation. Of course I havent bottled them then but Ive tasted the gravity sample.

Ive had probably 9-10 really bad batches of different belgian beers. I dont mean bad as in "New Belgium Abbey bad" i mean bad as in "I have to pour this crap out". And thats what Ive done.

And the beers that has been great or at least ok has been ok already after a week or two into fermentation...

I understand, I remember reading that you have given some of these months and months...and still they remained nasty. For these recent ones, where you are changing your process to narrow down the source of your problem I only urge you to give those adequate time prior to making a final impression...

 

[rockdemon]

I understand, I remember reading that you have given some of these months and months...and still they remained nasty. For these recent ones, where you are changing your process to narrow down the source of your problem I only urge you to give those adequate time prior to making a final impression...

Yeah, as long as i dont get that nasty*ss band-aid chloramine flavor I will definitely bottle and age. A tripel i made 14 months ago tasted only like band-aid and some bittering hops but now it actually tasted like belgian band-aid so that was impressive. I could actually drink like half a bottle of it after I had a couple of beers first.

And about aging. A guy here made a tripel that he thought was a failure( no off flavors but just really dull), he put all the bottles in the basement and forgot about them, a year later he tried one, noticed that it was great and won a national championship with it...

 

[303Dan]

Ive had probably 9-10 really bad batches of different belgian beers. I dont mean bad as in "New Belgium Abbey bad" i mean bad as in "I have to pour this crap out". And thats what Ive done.

Sorry, don't want to derail your thread, but this caught me off guard. Are we calling New Belgium Abbey a bad beer these days? I mean you're talking about the most award winning beer from one of the most respected craft breweries in the US. I think it's won like 4 World Beer Cup medals and 8 Great American Beer Fest medals or something like that?

That being said, they did change the recipe in 2015 and I think they ruined it. Not surprising, I really don't like much of anything New Belgium has done different or new in the last 5 years or so. I don't like how they've changed. But the original Abbey is a fine beer, IMO.

Anyway, carry on. Just surprised to see that beer referred to in such a negative light.

Dan

 

[ThomasPaine]

Most of the recipes Ive seen has something like ths very popular recipe of a westvleteren 12 clone:

Ramp fermentation temp (evenly over time) from 63 - 80F over 7 days

Or these from Candisyrup.com:



Chill to 64F. Pitch yeast. Pure O2 via 0.5

micron diffusion for 90 seconds. Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days.

-St. Feullien clone



Ramp primary from 64F to 76F through 7 days - abt 12 clone.





Ramp primary 7 days from 64F to 76F until reaching

terminal gravity. -La trappe tripel clone



Ramp primary up to 76F over 6 days. -westmalle tripel clone



So it seems to me that its quite a normal way of doing it with the wlp530...



And according to all that Ive read a higher temp(although it sholdnt get too high of course) will increase esters and give better attenuation

Ok, sorry. I didn't understand that you were manually adjusting the temp. Just thought it was fluctuating between those temps. I would say that at 6 days, your fermentation is still going and the co2 hasn't had a chance to carry the sulfur smell out.