When to rack my Belgian?

[jlatenight]

My Second 5ga batch, a Belgian Tripel (extract kit), has been in primary for 3 weeks. I'm at the high end of the expected FG, 1.020. It's still merky, but no activity in the airlock.

I warmed-up the room a little more to 67 to see if I could boost the yeast activity to get the FG a little lower. Would you leave it in primary much longer? Any benefit to this style being in primary past FG?

My plan is to rack to a corney and stow it in my Beermeister @ about 40deg until I finish my current brew which will prob be at least 3 weeks or more (it's just me drinking it). Should I initially pressurize it to like 12 while it sits untapped, or just seal it and let it naturally pressurize on it's own until I'm ready to tap/pressurize it?

My first brew, currently on-tap, is not as clear as I had hoped. It's still green and might clear-up over time, but to ensure my Belgian is clearer I wanted to add some gelitin. Would I do that when I rack to the corney?

Thanks guys!

 

[solbes]

I'd leave it one more week, some belgian strains slowly munch through those last sugars. See if you can warm it to 70 or higher. Belgians like a little heat late in the fermenation. 1.020 is a little high for a tripel, minue usually get to 1.01 or below.

You certainly can keg it, and it'll be okay. Here's my advice (worth approximately two cents). Tripels taste so so for the first 3 months. Plenty of hot alcohol flavors and a bit harsh overall. At 3 months the alcohol and harshness start to be reduced dramatically. At 6 months the yeast flavors start to come in. And at 9 and 12 months the complexity really comes through. My first is still improving at month 11. I've also learned that with 3787 yeast, putting a bottle (or keg) in the fridge for 3-4 weeks can dramatically improve the taste, even on aged bottles.

So I would consider bottling and aging this batch. I think you'd be happier with it in the end. But I completely understand if you keg it and drink it as it's batch #2 for you with a limited pipeline. You could always brew up a wheat, bitter, or low gravity Irish red for a quick turnaround, say 3 weeks?

As to using gelatin, it works really well if the beer is already cold. Give it about 3 or 4 days to work and most of the yeast will drop out. No need to add gelatin to the tripel if it's going to be aged, it'll clear really brite on it's own.

 

[sockmerchant]

If its doesn't drop much I would consider adding champagne yeast, or a clean lager yeast. Triples should finish quite dry

 

[jlatenight]

This is great information solbes...just what I was looking for.

I'd leave it one more week, some belgian strains slowly munch through those last sugars. See if you can warm it to 70 or higher. Belgians like a little heat late in the fermenation. 1.020 is a little high for a tripel, minue usually get to 1.01 or below.

I used Nottingham yeast...came with the kit. Does that make a difference? I'm basically following your advice anyway. It's currently at 68 and it was 64 the past 3 weeks. I'll keep it like that for another week and see if the gravity falls at all. What if I were to agitate it to get more yeast into suspension?

So I would consider bottling and aging this batch. I think you'd be happier with it in the end.

I think I'm going to do just that: my next beer is going to be Schlenkerla's House Amber , so I'll make that and bypass the Belgian. I don't think I'm going to bother bottling, so when I rack the Belgian to a keg in a week, should I store it cold (40deg in my Beermeister) or room temp? Should I pressurize it while it ages in the keg?

As to using gelatin, it works really well if the beer is already cold. Give it about 3 or 4 days to work and most of the yeast will drop out. No need to add gelatin to the tripel if it's going to be aged, it'll clear really brite on it's own.

So basically any amber-type beer no matter how cloudy will clear up given enough time without agitation?
Again, thanks for such a great reply!!

 

[sockmerchant]

Nottingham wont be very belgian.... but hey it'll probably taste good

 

[Calder]

Notty at 67 F should be done. Not sure what the problem is, but I'm sure someone will tell you it's the 1.020 extract curse (personally I don't believe in it, and it's usually due to inexperience).

How well did you aerate at the start? You need to aerate well to get the yeast off to a good start, otherwise it can finish high. Too late to aerate now.

Notty will not give you any Belgian flavors. Makes a decent beer though.

If the FG is not moving, you are done.

If it is murky, I would suggest using some gelatin. Put half a teaspoon of gelatin in half ozs of room temp water and leave for 30 minutes. Heat 4 ozs of water in microwave to boiling. Use jug or cup and cover with clingfilm (will sanitize the container). When water has cooled to 170/180, add the cold water with the gelatin in and mix well. Add to beer and leave for a week. I like to rack onto the gelatin to ensure it is mixed, but I believe adding it straight to the fermenter works fine. Unflavored gelatin from the cooking/desert section of the supermarket is fine.

If its doesn't drop much I would consider adding champagne yeast, or a clean lager yeast. Triples should finish quite dry

His primary yeast will have consumed the simple sugars, leaving only complex sugars. Champagne yeast will not do anything to the complex sugars.

He has a lot of alcohol, adding any more yeast now would need a big starter, or the use of a fresh cake . This is his second batch, I don't think he is ready for either of those.

 

[jlatenight]

Thanks Calder, maybe there wasn't enough oxygen? I didn't aerate with 02, just shook it up a bunch. The first few days of the ferment went crazy, had to switch to a blow-off. Honestly, I'm going to go check my hydrometer for accuracy. Should be right at 1.000 at 60f, right?

Interesting: my first batch ended high too (belgian is second). I used tap water for both, could my water be the prob? I'm planning on using Spring water next time.

EDIT: I just tested my hydrometer and it's right on 1.000 at 60f in distilled water. So that ain't it.

 

[Profchaos]

I actually used the same kit that you did and my batch finished at exactly 1.020 as well. Had the exact same quick and vigorous fermentation and then nothing for a few weeks. So I just racked and bottled it.

I've been bottle conditioning for a month and still not completely carbed and it still has a green flavor to it. So I cant say how the finished product should turn out quite yet.

 

[jlatenight]

Thanks Profchaos....was it the Brewer's Best kit? You use Notty too? Maybe it's not my rookie skills! Maybe Nottingham can't crunch through that much sugar before the alcohol levels get to them and they peeter out?

 

[solbes]

First of all, with big beers (> 1.065 or so), you should make sure you pitch enough yeast. You need them to be strong to finish the job.

For a true Tripel you should use a liquid yeast strain that's Belgian. Its the yeast that makes Belgians unique. Both Wyeast and White Labs have great strains. I really like WY 3787, it makes a great tripel, patersbier, and even dubbel. The only think I don't like is it can have some explosive foaming (blew the lid on 2 batches!). Blow off tubes are a must.

I think you could age this one however you want. Maybe aging in a keg for a couple of months at room temp? Then put it in the fridge for 3 weeks or so before drinking? I would at least purge the Oxygen out with CO2 and set the seals at 30 psi. Then you can either disconnect gas or carb it up. Shouldn't really affect aging. I think it'll still turn out great. I admire you for taking on a cool brew on #2.

 

[sockmerchant]

His primary yeast will have consumed the simple sugars, leaving only complex sugars. Champagne yeast will not do anything to the complex sugars.

QUOTE]

I'm not exactly sure about his process, which is why suggested that OR lager yeast. Lager yeast being great at breaking down complex sugars.

 

[Profchaos]

Thanks Profchaos....was it the Brewer's Best kit? You use Notty too? Maybe it's not my rookie skills! Maybe Nottingham can't crunch through that much sugar before the alcohol levels get to them and they peeter out?

Yep the same Brewer's Best Kit and I did also use Notty. I was thinking the same, Notty probably cant handle getting a tripel to much lower.

Maybe it would have fared better with a starter. I don't know, it was one of my first batches as well and wasn't quite ready to jump into using a starter yet.

 

[solbes]

Usually with dry yeast you just pitch another packet if needed. They are packaged with the energy reserves at peak, so you actually don't want to make a starter in most cases.

I always make a starter for liquid yeast, unless the gravity is less than 1.045. Big beers like tripels either get the full 4 quart starter, or I sometimes wash and repitch part of a yeast cake from the batch racked right before brewing.

 

[jlatenight]

OP here, question: I'm planning on brewing this weekend and I want to resuse the yeast from my Belgian which I'll be racking to a keg. Has this Nottingham yeast been too stressed sitting at the bottom of this beer for 3 weeks? I plan to wash the yeast so I can clean my carboy and repitch. I'm wondering how much of the washed yeast I should pitch?

 

[Calder]

OP here, question: I'm planning on brewing this weekend and I want to resuse the yeast from my Belgian which I'll be racking to a keg. Has this Nottingham yeast been too stressed sitting at the bottom of this beer for 3 weeks? I plan to wash the yeast so I can clean my carboy and repitch. I'm wondering how much of the washed yeast I should pitch?

Provided the beer doesn't have an infection, you can re-use the yeast. And use it over and over and over again ........ most people advise against re-using 5 times for various reasons).

Most people will tell you to check out Mr. Malty for the correct pitching amount. I don't think Mr.Malty is very good for re-pitching slurry. My general guideline is to use about a quarter of the cake for a subsequent beer of similar OG.

If you are going to use the slurry within a few days, you can store it in sanitized mason jars (in the fridge). You can wash the yeast if you like, but it is not necessary. You can make a starter if you like, but it is not necessary.

 

[jlatenight]

If you are going to use the slurry within a few days, you can store it in sanitized mason jars (in the fridge). You can wash the yeast if you like, but it is not necessary. You can make a starter if you like, but it is not necessary.

I'm brewing on Saturday, and I like to have a revised plan so things go smoothly....so on Thurs I'm planning on doing this (based on Bernie Brewer's guide):
1. rack belgian to keg
2. boil some water to wash the yeast with
3. pour boiled+cooled water in, wait 20min for the heavy trub to settle, siphen off the top layer into a sterile container and put in fridge
4. clean my carboy to get it ready for the new batch
5. make a yeast starter with about 1/4 of the washed yeast
6. Then on Sat, brew away and pitch my starter
7. jar the rest in the fridge in 3 jars for later use

It's probably overkill, like you say I could skip the washing and starter, but it's good practice since I'm doing this all for the first time. What do you think? Solid plan?

 

[solbes]

I think you can skip the starter all together. If the yeast comes from a primary with beer that was just racked off, it is very viable indeed. Try to grab the yeast on the top as it will have the most active cells and least trub/dead yeast. Washing it is a good idea if you have time. The washed yeast should be plenty viable for a week or so. I usually get activity within 2-4 hours of repitched yeast.

 

[jlatenight]

I think you can skip the starter all together. If the yeast comes from a primary with beer that was just racked off, it is very viable indeed. Try to grab the yeast on the top as it will have the most active cells and least trub/dead yeast. Washing it is a good idea if you have time. The washed yeast should be plenty viable for a week or so. I usually get activity within 2-4 hours of repitched yeast.

Yeah, I think I'm going to skip the starter, but I am going to wash for the learning experience. I hope I pitch the right amount...Thanks again Solbes

 

[Calder]

I'm brewing on Saturday, and I like to have a revised plan so things go smoothly....so on Thurs I'm planning on doing this (based on Bernie Brewer's guide):
1. rack belgian to keg
2. boil some water to wash the yeast with
3. pour boiled+cooled water in, wait 20min for the heavy trub to settle, siphen off the top layer into a sterile container and put in fridge
4. clean my carboy to get it ready for the new batch
5. make a yeast starter with about 1/4 of the washed yeast
6. Then on Sat, brew away and pitch my starter
7. jar the rest in the fridge in 3 jars for later use

What I do, and never had a problem.

1. Rack off all the beer getting as much out as possible.
2. Do not add water to the cake left in the fermenter.
3. Swirl fermenter well to get all the cake as a mix of slurry (there is plenty of liquid in sludge at the bottom of the fermenter.
4. Pour evenly into 4 sanitized pint mason jars.
5. Store in fridge.

For many beers I have just straight pitched the slurry from one jar, and never had a problem (pour off liquid and pitch the solids). I would use this without any concern for up to a month after harvesting the yeast.

What I have been doing recently is; on the day I brew I pour the pint of slurry into a sanitized gallon container (again, pour off the liquid and just use the solids). Fill with water from the tap (I trust my water - never been an issue). Swirl it around. When it's time to pitch the yeast, I pour the liquid into the fermenter leaving the settled trub behind. I will happily use this method for up to 2 months after harvesting.

Very little work

 

[jlatenight]

Interesting note to my first post. I just found the sheet of paper I wrote my OG on and it was a whopping 1.099!! Should have been 1.086 at the most. So the abv calculates to 10.4%....whoa. I'm fairly certain I measured the OG correctly....I remember reading it like 5 times, and it was after I topped-off to 5gal and mixed it up...I take back everything I said about Notty not being able to cut the mustard.

I guess I should have added more water huh.