When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

[malkore]

Yes transferring to the secondary has some risks. Anytime you move the beer around you introduce oxygen. Oxidation will give your beer a cardboard like flavor. Also, you run the risk of infecting the beer. Both risks of infection and oxidation can be minimized with the proper techniques but why risk it? What the benefits? Let the beer settle out in the primary and there is really no need to transfer to a secondary. IMHO the risks out weight the benefits.

Bah. by this reasoning, making homebrew vs. buying beer at the store isn't worth the risk since it might not turn out.

If you transfer properly, there is no risk. If you can't rack to secondary without oxidizing the beer, you'll never get it into the bottle or keg without oxidizing.

I agree...all beers do not require a secondary, and some styles will suffer from it.

For me, I get MUCH clearer beers with a 2 week secondary, vs. a long primary going straight to bottle.

 

[Yooper]

When I bottled, I almost always did a secondary. I felt that I had much less sediment in my bottles, and didn't bottle the beer until it was clear. The beer was aged, too, since it was in the secondary and I couldn't touch it!

When I started kegging, I started leaving my beers in the primary for 3-4 weeks, and then kegging it.

Aside from the sediment issue, I don't notice a bit of difference in my beer. As long as I age it, that is! Since I keg it, it's all to easy to drink it too early! In a bottled beer, you're forced to wait until the beer is conditioned, since it needs time to carb up. To keep myself from hitting them too early, I've contemplated going back to using a secondary. Not because the beer needs it, but because it keeps me out of it longer.

The choice is yours- I don't know of any specific benefits to most ales. But I don't know of any specific hindrances, either!

 

[kappclark]

To keep myself from hitting them too early, I've contemplated going back to using a secondary. Not because the beer needs it, but because it keeps me out of it longer.

QUOTE]

YES! I am drinking more homebrew, and earlier, ever since I started kegging. I usually go 3-4 weeks in primary, then straight to keg. I know it is still a bit green,, but in a few days, I begin to sample.. then sample some more...

Bottles lasted longer, I am sure

 

[Poolplayer]

I brewed a NB Cream Ale. Transferred to secondary and bottled. The beer came out a lot more amber colored and has an off aroma but the taste is still alright. I just add a lemon wedge to it and it keeps me drinking it Is this off aroma relative to not allowing it to ferment properly by being in a primary primarily? There seemed to be brain matter in the first stages of fermentation about 3-4 inches below the top of the Krausen.

 

[Yooper]

I brewed a NB Cream Ale. Transferred to secondary and bottled. The beer came out a lot more amber colored and has an off aroma but the taste is still alright. I just add a lemon wedge to it and it keeps me drinking it Is this off aroma relative to not allowing it to ferment properly by being in a primary primarily? There seemed to be brain matter in the first stages of fermentation about 3-4 inches below the top of the Krausen.

No, using a secondary vs a primary only doesn't change the flavor or aroma of the beer. There is another issue here that causes the off aroma.

 

[bierbrauer]

I always use a secondary unless it is a low alcohol session bitter or similar style. In fact sometimes I transfer the beer to a secondary and then into another vessel right at bottling time. I avoid any splashing whatsoever and there is enough CO2 built up in the beer that any oxygen is pushed out of the carboy before it is closed up again, and the oxygen that remains there I’m not worried about. That said I am also going from all grain all the time and I haven’t had a batch that didn’t taste fantastic. Generally the bigger the beer the more resistant it will be to spoilage of any kind... although I think heavy oxygenation will spoil any beer no matter what the strength of alcohol and hops.

 

[Poolplayer]

I get the feeling I either covered the wort causing the "cooked corn" scent or I stirred it during the cool down phase causing hot side aeration. I moved the bottles to my bedroom closet where I keep it a little warmer and the odor has dissipated after three days of conditioning there. Whatever it was it's beer now

 

[Poolplayer]

I'm going to experiment with a double batch. I will transfer one to secondary and leave one in the primary until bottling day to see if there are inherent differences in the overall quality of the beers.

 

[maida7]

I get the feeling I either covered the wort causing the "cooked corn" scent or I stirred it during the cool down phase causing hot side aeration. I moved the bottles to my bedroom closet where I keep it a little warmer and the odor has dissipated after three days of conditioning there. Whatever it was it's beer now

Hot side aeration is a myth. Don't believe the hype.

 

[maida7]

I'm going to experiment with a double batch. I will transfer one to secondary and leave one in the primary until bottling day to see if there are inherent differences in the overall quality of the beers.

If you leave them both in the fermenters for the same amount of time, I doubt you will see any significant difference.

 

[MVKTR2]

I say even if you secondary there is no need to rush your bier from primary to secondary. I don't move any bier before the yeast have had time to clean up after themselves. I've heard Palmer and others allude to the fact that the yeast help to eat up several 'off-flavor' components. We've beat autolysis to death on here, suffice to say you aint got to worry about that in regard to 5.5 gallon batches unless you're leaving the bier on the original yeast cake for 6+ weeks.

I've found that I get plenty clear beer when I bottle directly from the primary at 24-30 days if I've used irish moss or whirlfloc tablets. If I don't use those 'in boil' clarifiers I get 'cloudier' bier. So if you want clear bier use irish moss/whirlfloc or use a secondary. Then again that's just my experience. With a current batch I'm planning on chilling it in the water bath, using frozen bottles much like fermentation, for 4-7 days before bottling. I used whirlfloc in this batch, but I want to see if this 'chilling' makes a difference... sort of a ghetto approach to cold crashing.

No matter what you can only mess up if you move it too soon!

Schlante,
Phillip

 

[smizak]

I say even if you secondary there is no need to rush your bier from primary to secondary. I don't move any bier before the yeast have had time to clean up after themselves. I've heard Palmer and others allude to the fact that the yeast help to eat up several 'off-flavor' components. We've beat autolysis to death on here, suffice to say you aint got to worry about that in regard to 5.5 gallon batches unless you're leaving the bier on the original yeast cake for 6+ weeks.

I've found that I get plenty clear beer when I bottle directly from the primary at 24-30 days if I've used irish moss or whirlfloc tablets. If I don't use those 'in boil' clarifiers I get 'cloudier' bier. So if you want clear bier use irish moss/whirlfloc or use a secondary. Then again that's just my experience. With a current batch I'm planning on chilling it in the water bath, using frozen bottles much like fermentation, for 4-7 days before bottling. I used whirlfloc in this batch, but I want to see if this 'chilling' makes a difference... sort of a ghetto approach to cold crashing.

No matter what you can only mess up if you move it too soon!

Schlante,
Phillip

I'm gonna start "ghetto" cold crashing the same way, or at least until it gets cold enough in the garage to do it. I've also noticed that highly flocculent yeast will get my beer clearer much faster than say US-05, which hangs out FOREVER, as well.

 

[Bioguy1975]

Granted I am a noob myself, but I have one primary and three secondaries, the plan being, that I can get a solid rotation going of fermentation, clarification, and bottling. So, mostly logistics. That being said, I am tremendously surprised by the amount of clarity I got on my first batch of beer by letting it sit in secondary for 3 weeks, as well as the sediment that settled out. Of course, I haven't tasted anything yet.

 

[Munch671]

As Orfy has stated, it takes experience to know what works and what doesn't for the beer you are brewing, and if you are comfortable with using a secondary, then by all means use it.

With that said, I am so experienced I don't even use a primary anymore.

 

[Minky]

With that said, I am so experienced I don't even use a primary anymore.

Yeah, to hell with these crazy external fermentations. Just pitch your yeast and drink it down. Think of the time you'll save!! ;-)

 

[triangulum33]

I've done a few easy brews with no secondary that turned out good. Next is a big Belgian that is more $ and I really want to nail, so I'm gonna follow NorthernBrewer's instructions and rack to secondary.

 

[MrTink76]

Wow ... I read the entire thread, every post. I feel ... bug-eyed. What I got from all these posts:

1) Forget the bubble thing. Use a sanitized turkey baster or wine thief to extract some beer. Use a hydrometer and take readings 2 or three days in a row and look for any change. If it's stable, it's done fermenting. Also: Don't dump the sampled beer, taste it!

2) Don't worry too much about removing the lid to take the hydrometer readings because CO2 is denser than O2. Don't worry too much about bacterial contamination as long as everything is properly sanitized and try not to drool or sneeze into your fermenter.

3) You can leave the beer 7-10 days or 3-4 weeks in the primary if you want, whatever works for you. As long as the fermentation is done, the rest is all just clarification.

4) Beer will clarify in the primary just as much as in a secondary so don't worry about it too much. If you want a super clear beer and are careful when racking to secondary, go for it.

Does that about sum it up? :rockin:

 

[bierbrauer]

I use a secondary in most cases but that is because I usually harvest and reuse my yeasties after a batch so it makes sense for me to harvest the yeast and wash it rather then have it sitting in my primary for a month.

 

[rickstar1970]

Same as bierbrauer. Use secondary since I reuse the yeast every two weeks. (good for about 4 batches) I also will make the same style of beer, just different variations, thus the reason i reuse yeast. I find it to be the most efficient for me. Brew, Bottle or Keg, Transfer to Secondary all at the same time. I guess I use a 2-2-2 pattern. I just dont want to let the yeast sit for four weeks. Especially if you are dumping on top of the last batch. Theres so much yeast it will bubble in a couple of hours and finish within 3 to 5 days.

 

[kwaidonjin]

I am learning so much, this is a crash course in homebrewing.... I got the bug, got it bad...............................

 

[DBake]

Can you use a bucket as a secondary?

 

[Erythro73]

I wouldn't suggest it.

1) You need to minimize the headspace. The yeast won't produce CO2 anymore, and you want to minimize the amount of oxygen in the vessel. Buckets are usually made with too much headspace for a normal batch. You're better off taking a glass carboy with the proper volume for your batch.

2) If you want to secondary for a long time, you're still better off with carboys. Plastic buckets are permeable to oxygen while glass carboys aren't.

 

[DBake]

...You're better off taking a glass carboy with the proper volume for your batch.

5 gallon batch to a 5 gallon carboy?

 

[Erythro73]

5 gallon batch to a 5 gallon carboy?

Well, the smaller the headspace, the better it is, when we're talking about secondary.

 

[AugustDerleth]

del'd

 

[paraordnance]

Hi all, noob here with first brew but I read a lot before begin. I use The Brewhouse Pilsner beer kit and two-stage equipment kit. My primary fermenter is 10 gal food-grade plastic bucket with loosely closing lid and I'm worried to leave there for too long (more than week) due to contamination, I cannot attach airlock and I don't need blowout hose since the bucket is 4 gal bigger than my recipie. I cannot imagine how you guys can do with 6 gal glass carboy alone since the fermentation in first 24 hours is so vigorous it filled almost 3/4 of my 10 gal pail!! I would like to just use my 6 gal carboy in future without racking to secondary but I affraid it will overfill like crazy. Is it safe to ferment my beer in container that is not airtight?

 

[sportscrazed2]

I'm brewing my first batch tommorow or saturday. i plan to just leave it in primary for 3 weeks then bottle.

 

[AugustDerleth]

So, I tried to re-read this entire thread to find this answer but here's my question! If primary is for fermentation and secondary is for clarification (essentially, NOT fermentation) then if I used a cool/cold fermentation can I leave the secondary fermenters in a different temperature environment, just so they can clarify? Or would this change in temps cause some problem that I'm not seeing? I have a fridge that I've got my primary's in and I'd like to use it for continual primarys rather than having to use it for the same batches in secondary. If that makes sense? Thanks in advance for your thoughts/help! :fro:

 

[maida7]

So, I tried to re-read this entire thread to find this answer but here's my question! If primary is for fermentation and secondary is for clarification (essentially, NOT fermentation) then if I used a cool/cold fermentation can I leave the secondary fermenters in a different temperature environment, just so they can clarify? Or would this change in temps cause some problem that I'm not seeing? I have a fridge that I've got my primary's in and I'd like to use it for continual primarys rather than having to use it for the same batches in secondary. If that makes sense? Thanks in advance for your thoughts/help! :fro:

Just make sure you finish the ferment in the primary and there is no need for a secondary. You can skip it. Problem solved.

 

[AugustDerleth]

Just make sure you finish the ferment in the primary and there is no need for a secondary. You can skip it. Problem solved.

I. . .guess? I'm trying to clear fridge space for new fermentations. What you suggested is not a clear answer to my question. I was wondering if I complete fermentation, can the fermenter (primary or secondary) then be taken out of a temperature controlled environment without causing off-flavours or some other unforeseen (on my part) problem? I've heard of folks skipping secondary, this is not how I was taught to brew.