When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

[Minky]

So, I tried to re-read this entire thread to find this answer but here's my question! If primary is for fermentation and secondary is for clarification (essentially, NOT fermentation) then if I used a cool/cold fermentation can I leave the secondary fermenters in a different temperature environment, just so they can clarify? Or would this change in temps cause some problem that I'm not seeing? I have a fridge that I've got my primary's in and I'd like to use it for continual primarys rather than having to use it for the same batches in secondary. If that makes sense? Thanks in advance for your thoughts/help! :fro:

Hi August,
Your "cool/cold fermentation" suggests that you are brewing a lager, in which case you should maintain the cold temperature for several weeks after fermentation has finished (lager means cold storage) while the beer ages and clarifies. Even some ale styles, such as Kolsch, are traditionally lagered.

You weren't too specific about the nature of your "different temperature environment" but conditioning an ale at a little higher temperature should be OK. Some people purposely bottle condition in the mid-70's to speed up the bottle fermentation. Once fermentation is complete, temperature becomes less critical.

When I brew an ale, I prefer to leave it in the primary for at least a week after fermentation has completed, then I transfer to a secondary and condition it at around 32F deg. for another week or so. The colder the temperature, the quicker it clarifies.

 

[maida7]

I. . .guess? I'm trying to clear fridge space for new fermentations. What you suggested is not a clear answer to my question. I was wondering if I complete fermentation, can the fermenter (primary or secondary) then be taken out of a temperature controlled environment without causing off-flavours or some other unforeseen (on my part) problem? I've heard of folks skipping secondary, this is not how I was taught to brew.

OK let me be more direct. The answer is yes But there are some limitations and considerations. First tell me what types of beer your making and what is the temps of the controlled environment and what is the temps of the uncontrolled space. Are these ales or lagers? What strain(s) of yeast?

 

[AugustDerleth]

Thank you for your responses. My apologies for not being clear. I am housing a 1 gallon lager, and about 7 gallons of mead in a controlled fridge. The temperature on the lager side is about 50 degrees F and the mead side is holding at about 62 degrees. What I'm wanting to know, is once the fermentation is completed can I then rack these into secondary fermenters and place them in my basement where the temperatures fluctuate but are probably anywhere from 70-76F without causing problems. This way I can store my secondaries while creating new primaries without having to wait months for the first batches to clarify. The mead has D-47 in it which I know produces horrible flavours at high temps, but I guess that's my point...since ferm is "over" is this still a problem? Thank you very much, and maida my apologies if I came across rude. I was having one hell of a night last night.

 

[maida7]

I'm not a mead maker but I assume the mead would be fine conditioning at 70-76F following fermentation for a short period before botteling.

The lager should be well lagered. Following fermentaion you should move it off the yeast and drop the temp to 32F and hold it there for 2 weeks to a month for it to condition. Many people use a serving fridge for lagering.

 

[AugustDerleth]

I'm not a mead maker but I assume the mead would be fine conditioning at 70-76F following fermentation for a short period before botteling.

I suppose this could be an issue. Can you define "short period" for me? I primarily make meads, and based on what I've experienced, they can sit in secondaries for months and months. Anyone else a mead-maker that has experience with what I'm trying to do? I appreciate your input, Maida. :fro:

 

[PartyBible]

I secondary only when adding goodies to the mix, e.g. whiskey barrel stout. I am going to a 1' only method from now on.

 

[AugustDerleth]

The answer is in the FAQ sticky
This is just a quick overview.




If you are not sure and want an easy rule of thumb for a normal beer then a lot of brewers are happy to stick follow the 1-2-3 rule. 1 week to ferment - 2 weeks clearing/conditioning - 3 weeks to bottle condition.


Hope that helps.

Thank you for this!

 

[DSpinoza]

so i have three batches in primary and they will by this weekend (March 5) have been in there about six weeks (maybe seven). One (allgrain IPA) had twelve pounds of grain instead of "traditional" (so I was told) 10 pounds. That one is slowing. I have a Cooper LME Real ale that I added two extra pounds (one sugar and one Amber DME) to at the reccommendation of the Cooper kit instructions. This one is still fermenting strong. The last is a Munton's nut brown ale LME kit that I added 3 pounds of DME to (1 more than recommended by the directions) all of the kits said they anticipated around 5 to 6 percent alcohol. I'm wondering why they are taking so long. They run at a consistent 65 degrees and everywhere I look people say fermentation should take 2 weeks ( maybe 3). I even had a wheat beer (my first brew attempt) finish in 2 weeks. WHAT'S THE DEUCE? are they just highly alcoholic? too cold? I wouldn't expect that it's because they're still in the primary with the yeast because yeast propagates anyways? AAAAAAHHHHHH I just want to try my beers.

 

[maida7]

so i have three batches in primary and they will by this weekend (March 5) have been in there about six weeks (maybe seven). One (allgrain IPA) had twelve pounds of grain instead of "traditional" (so I was told) 10 pounds. That one is slowing. I have a Cooper LME Real ale that I added two extra pounds (one sugar and one Amber DME) to at the reccommendation of the Cooper kit instructions. This one is still fermenting strong. The last is a Munton's nut brown ale LME kit that I added 3 pounds of DME to (1 more than recommended by the directions) all of the kits said they anticipated around 5 to 6 percent alcohol. I'm wondering why they are taking so long. They run at a consistent 65 degrees and everywhere I look people say fermentation should take 2 weeks ( maybe 3). I even had a wheat beer (my first brew attempt) finish in 2 weeks. WHAT'S THE DEUCE? are they just highly alcoholic? too cold? I wouldn't expect that it's because they're still in the primary with the yeast because yeast propagates anyways? AAAAAAHHHHHH I just want to try my beers.

What makes you say they aren't finished? If they aren't finished the you have a real problem. Have you taken a gravity reading? Has the yeast dropped down to the bottom leaving the beer clear?

For ales my fermentations are usually finished in just a few days. 3-4 days for the ferment then I raise the temp for a few days to clean things up. Then I wait a few more days for the yeast to settle to the bottom. Then I transfer to a keg. The key is in the fermentation. Pitch the proper amounts of healthy yeast, Oxygenate your wort and properly manage the temps. If you do all that you can turn around your batches in 14 days or less, never need a secondary and brew the best beer possible.

 

[Firebelly]

Hello this is my first post/ first batch of all time. I have read this whole thread as well as the fermentation thread, but I haven't seen anything about my specific question so here goes. I'm brewing a 5 gallon Irish Stout, and I seem to have accidentally killed my first packet of yeast by rehydrating it at too high a temperature, then panicking and putting into the fridge to cool it down. Go ahead and laugh now. After 50 hours with zero activity I pitched a new dry packet as advised by LHBS and fermentation took right off. I'm worried about that first dead packet creating off-flavors or aromas. Is this likely? Would a secondary help this situation? Thanks in advance and sorry for long first post.

 

[bob1852]

Nah, your dead yeast is just that. Dead. In fact, dead yeast is often used as nutrient, so you'll be okay.

 

[Inconceivable]

Can please someone explain what it is i'm looking for in hydrometer readings?
The reading was 1.046 when i started the primary fermentation. I've read a 1000 times that I need to take reading to determine when to go to secondary but no one has ever mentioned what the reading should be.
Thoughts?

 

[DirtBagRob]

You can go to secondary as soon as fermentation is complete. Fermentation is complete once you have the same hydrometer reading for a couple days in a row. The final reading depends on the type of beer, how many fermentable sugars, etc. A guess for a FG for a beer with an OG of 1.046, it will probably finish between 1.000 and 1.010. Just a guess though. If the reading is the same for two days, you're good to go.

 

[Inconceivable]

thanks Rob.

The instructions on the ale kit i'm using say that when the reading is the same for 2-3 days then the SECONDARY ferment is done, not the first.

I guess I'll just follow the 1-2-3 rule and be safe.

 

[Firebelly]

If you wait until you have matching hydrometer readings over a few day span, then transfer to secondary and allow beer to age/clarify there, is there any possibility of priming sugar not working? How long does the yeast stay viable throughout all this aging?

 

[AugustDerleth]

The reading was 1.046 when i started the primary fermentation. I've read a 1000 times that I need to take reading to determine when to go to secondary but no one has ever mentioned what the reading should be.
Thoughts?

The final gravity will be different for every type of beer out there, and even the same beer in different batches will have a slightly different gravity from each other. There is no blanket answer for what your final gravity reading should be. It depends on what style beer you are making, what yeast you are using, and what your OG was, etc etc. You take readings initially (pre-yeast; OG) and then take another reading a week or two after pitching, if your gravity readings have no change for 2-3 days you can pretty much safely rack to secondary, or you can leave it in primary until you hit your FG, then bottle. Secondary is usually used to clarify, or add other flavours/hops/fruits, but for beginners it does make a nice safety net in case your gravity is low but fermentation had not actually ceased.

With no further details, if your gravity was 1.046, fermentation should be basically done between 1.010 and 1.011 or so, which would give you an approximate ABV of 4.5-4.6%

 

[dirtyjerz]

All the answers to this question are in the first 2 pages. This is a huge circle jerk! LOL

 

[bjl110]

I am as new as you can get. Thought of brewing a bunch, but neverstarted blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I have not bought any equipment yet and am still doing research on the kit I want. I plan on making many beers with added flavors (i.e. coffee, bourbon soaked oak chips, fruit puree, etc), so should I go ahead and pony up for the secondary? Have you guys had good results with using those kind of ingredients in just a primary? Most of the recipes I've seen put this kind of thing in the secondary, so do you just add it to the primary and wait longer? How about if I start making IPAs?

Thanks!

PS - I looked in the first six pages to see if this question was in the thread, but am way too lazy to go through all 35.

 

[reim0027]

I would pony up. If you want to add those flavors, you'll need a secondary.

 

[cyclonite]

I would pony up. If you want to add those flavors, you'll need a secondary.

Agreed, if you are doing flavor additions, you will want a secondary. Personally, this is the only reason that I secondary (other than just needing to free up a primary). I even dry hop in the primary (with a hop bag).

 

[SmashmouthBeerBrewing]

We just did our 4th beer, our first porter, last week but our kit/recipe didn't mention fermentation times or methods at all which is a first for us. We looked through a few recipe books for other porters, and here, but we'd like to remove rookie speculation if we can.

Most porter recipes we've seen call for a week or two of primary, and no secondary, but a few do want it. All our recipe says about this is the original and final gravities, no fermentation times at all.

Do porters benefit from secondary at all, or should we just wait for final SG and go straight to straining/bottling once we hit the mark?

Do porters require extra/less time in the bottle before they're ready to roll? We made a Dead Guy clone that took twice as long to carbonate in the bottle as the recipe said it should, that's why I ask.

 

[beerkrump]

Brew, three weeks primary, three weeks in the bottle, chill, drink. Repeat as needed.

 

[maida7]

We just did our 4th beer, our first porter, last week but our kit/recipe didn't mention fermentation times or methods at all which is a first for us. We looked through a few recipe books for other porters, and here, but we'd like to remove rookie speculation if we can.

Most porter recipes we've seen call for a week or two of primary, and no secondary, but a few do want it. All our recipe says about this is the original and final gravities, no fermentation times at all.

Do porters benefit from secondary at all, or should we just wait for final SG and go straight to straining/bottling once we hit the mark?

Do porters require extra/less time in the bottle before they're ready to roll? We made a Dead Guy clone that took twice as long to carbonate in the bottle as the recipe said it should, that's why I ask.

No need to secondary. Just let the fermentation finish in the primary and go straight to bottles.

Straining? Why would you do that? Sounds like it would introduce oxygen and that would be very bad at this point in the process.

Bottle carbonation is effected by many variables. temp is a big factor. But a porter will take no more or less time to carb then the average ale.

 

[SmashmouthBeerBrewing]

Straining? Why would you do that? Sounds like it would introduce oxygen and that would be very bad at this point in the process.

When we've done ales, we move the batch from the plastic bucket (primary) to a glass carboy for secondary, but run it through a filter/strainer to catch the huge chunks of hops. We do try and keep the aeration down as much as possible. The book we started learning from said to do it when you change containers.

Should we not strain it until it's bottling time? (wrong topic for the thread, sorry)

 

[smagee]

I typically strain batches when siphoning into the bottling bucket/keg. Never had any oxidation problems. How are you straining? Wrapping a hop bag around the siphon-end (bottom) of the racking cane, or filter at the outflow? The former has never given me any issues at all, except perhaps for crystal-clear beer .

 

[SmashmouthBeerBrewing]

I typically strain batches when siphoning into the bottling bucket/keg. Never had any oxidation problems. How are you straining? Wrapping a hop bag around the siphon-end (bottom) of the racking cane, or filter at the outflow? The former has never given me any issues at all, except perhaps for crystal-clear beer .

No, not a bag. We got our initial gear in a kit and it came with a funnel that has a little screen at the bottom to catch big chunks of crap. We've been using that going from primary to secondary fermenters, and before bottling. But we keep it a hair away from where it's going to reduce aeration and we really don't get much bubbling at all.

Personally I think the trouble we had with carbonation in our Dead Guy was from the priming sugar mix going into the wort too warm and we might have killed off some yeast, and the extra time we needed was the yeast trying to get a foothold again.

But like I said, true rookies right here.

 

[maida7]

No, not a bag. We got our initial gear in a kit and it came with a funnel that has a little screen at the bottom to catch big chunks of crap. We've been using that going from primary to secondary fermenters, and before bottling. But we keep it a hair away from where it's going to reduce aeration and we really don't get much bubbling at all.

Personally I think the trouble we had with carbonation in our Dead Guy was from the priming sugar mix going into the wort too warm and we might have killed off some yeast, and the extra time we needed was the yeast trying to get a foothold again.

But like I said, true rookies right here.

Don't do that. Passing it thru a funnel and strainer is gonna do way more harm then good. Just wait for all the yeast to settle to the bottom of the fermenter then carefully siphon the clear beer out without disturbing the yeast, hops and trub at the bottom.

Also, don't use a secondary. If your pitching the proper amounts of healthy yeast, oxygenating your wort and managing your fermentation temps. You should have no reason to use a secondary.

Lastly, there are many reasons why your dead guy did not carb fast but I doubt it has to do with the temp of the priming solution. Assuming you used the proper amount of priming sugar, yeast health post fermentation and the temp you store the bottles are the bigger factors at play.

 

[SmashmouthBeerBrewing]

Well good to know about the strainer.

But are you saying no secondary in general, or just for porters/stouts? Pretty sure you mean the latter, but just being safe

 

[maida7]

Well good to know about the strainer.

But are you saying no secondary in general, or just for porters/stouts? Pretty sure you mean the latter, but just being safe

No secondary ever. Well maybe use a secondary with fruit or sours and maybe for lagers but never for standard ale fermentation.

Secondary is something that homebrewers used in years past when they did not know how to properly ferment beer. Today's homebrewers have liquid yeast, are making starters and pitching at the proper rates. The secret to great beer is in the ferment. If you do the fermentation correctly there should be no reason for the secondary.

 

[SmashmouthBeerBrewing]

No secondary ever. Well maybe use a secondary with fruit or sours and maybe for lagers but never for standard ale fermentation.

Secondary is something that homebrewers used in years past when they did not know how to properly ferment beer. Today's homebrewers have liquid yeast, are making starters and pitching at the proper rates. The secret to great beer is in the ferment. If you do the fermentation correctly there should be no reason for the secondary.

Interesting...