When should I move batch to secondary?

[Cliff Morris]

just Started my first batch after close to a 10 year break, so I’ll consider myself brand new to brewing. I bought what I think is a decent starter kit that came with a primary and secondary carboy. As of right now the beer is bubbling strong headed into the second day in the primary. What is the ideal time to move it to the secondary? I’ve read quite a bit on it but would welcome any advise.

 

[histo320]

Most people here along with myself advise against using a secondary unless you are doing a big beer that need to be aged.

By using a secondary you are allowing oxygen into the beer which will create oxidation.

It was common practice 10 years ago but not much any more as the trend has changed.

Depending on the beer and yeast fermentation can be complete in 7-10 days but most wait at least 2 weeks and many way 4 before bottling or kegging.

Take a hydrometer sample and if it doesn't change after 3 days it is complete.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Here's what to do with a 5 gallon secondary:

Fill with pale 1.050 wort bittered with 0.5 oz Hallertau. Pitch Wyeast Belgian Lambic Blend. Fit with a silicone airlock. Put it somewhere dark. Forget about it for 9-12 months.


Welcome to HBT!

 

[Cliff Morris]

Here's what to do with a 5 gallon secondary:

Fill with pale 1.050 wort bittered with 0.5 oz Hallertau. Pitch Wyeast Belgian Lambic Blend. Fit with a silicone airlock. Put it somewhere dark. Forget about it for 9-12 months.


Welcome to HBT!

Gonna be totally honest with you, I got the silicone airlock and forget about it part . I guessing your talking about brewing an IPA up???? Sorry, reallllllly new here

 

[Soulshine2]

just Started my first batch after close to a 10 year break, so I’ll consider myself brand new to brewing. I bought what I think is a decent starter kit that came with a primary and secondary carboy. As of right now the beer is bubbling strong headed into the second day in the primary. What is the ideal time to move it to the secondary? I’ve read quite a bit on it but would welcome any advise.

I dont secondary on a beer on its own ,not necessary. BUT, if you're doing a fruit or other flavoring additions ,then I secondary. Personally ,Ive only secondaried twice.
Follow what histo320 said.

 

[Pkrd]

Pretty sure your kit actually came with two primaries.

 

[myndflyte]

Gonna be totally honest with you, I got the silicone airlock and forget about it part . I guessing your talking about brewing an IPA up???? Sorry, reallllllly new here

He's talking about brewing something that takes a year to age. But as others have said, unless you're doing something that requires a secondary (bulk aging, adding oak or fruit, etc) you don't need to use a secondary.

 

[mongoose33]

No need for a secondary; all it will do it give your beer additional opportunity to be oxidized.

The only times for a secondary are if you're aging long term, or perhaps adding fruit or coffee or some other additional flavor.

When I started brewing I got a kit with, you guessed it, a primary and a secondary (Northern Brewer). After reading HBT for a while, I decided to try it without. REVELATION!

I just brewed a Kolsch; 12 days in primary, and kegged it. No secondary.

BTW, welcome back!

 

[mongoose33]

just Started my first batch after close to a 10 year break, so I’ll consider myself brand new to brewing. I bought what I think is a decent starter kit that came with a primary and secondary carboy. As of right now the beer is bubbling strong headed into the second day in the primary. What is the ideal time to move it to the secondary? I’ve read quite a bit on it but would welcome any advise.

What the heck, might as well add something.

What are you doing for fermentation temperature control, if anything? Ask experienced brewers and 90 percent (maybe 100) will tell you one of the biggest, if not the biggest, leaps forward in their beer was ferm temperature control.

Yeast is exothermic, meaning it produces heat while working. That can raise the temp of fermenting wort 5-10 degrees above ambient temp. Most yeast (there are exceptions, farmhouse, saison, Kviek) will express off-flavors if you ferment them too warm, so maintaining the right temp is crucial to excellent beer.

You can do this on the cheap with a swamp cooler (fermenter in pan of water, t-shirt draped over top to wick up water from pan and evaporate it, cooling the fermenter). In my experience, this will get you about 5 degrees of cooling. If you're brewing an ale, a common temp is mid-60s.

You can add frozen water bottles to the pan of water too, from time to time.

Or you can get a ferm chamber (fancy name for refrigerator or freezer), add an Inkbird 308 controller, a seedling heat mat, and be able to control fermentation precisely.

Here are some pics; swamp cooler, my small ferm chamber, larger one, Inkbirds doing their work.

 

[RM-MN]

just Started my first batch after close to a 10 year break, so I’ll consider myself brand new to brewing. I bought what I think is a decent starter kit that came with a primary and secondary carboy. As of right now the beer is bubbling strong headed into the second day in the primary. What is the ideal time to move it to the secondary? I’ve read quite a bit on it but would welcome any advise.

That isn't a primary and secondary, it is a beer fermenter and a mead fermenter. Put the mead in the smaller carboy as it doesn't need the big headspace of a beer since it doesn't raise a big krausen.

 

[Cliff Morris]

First of all, thanks for all the great responses, I can already tell this is going to be a great resource.

The recipe I’m using is a blueberry wheat ale. Knowing what I know now, I would need to use the secondary before I add the fruit flavor, but what I thought was a secondary is actually a second primary. I’m assuming that this other primary will work as a secondary? And any good advise to keeping contamination to a minimum, or should I skip the blueberry and keep it just wheat?

As far as temperature control goes, I have found I was not totally prepared for an ale at this point. I don’t have a great source of keeping the temperature down, I did find the trick with the shirt so I have been able to keep the temp down around 72-74 degrees, which I’m not happy with but add a notch to the learning category and do better next round.

 

[histo320]

Whenever you use fruit you risk contamination which is why I have always used extract when adding flavor.

The decision is 100% up to you and that is what makes this hobby so much fun. You will get differing opinions on almost every thing on this site and the decision is ultimately up to you.

As for temperature control, that is something that comes with time. I like to keep mine in the mid 60s and have had a ton of success with my swamp cooler. Holding steady at 62F for 12 days now.

 

[El Nino]

My secondary is a 12 oz or 22 oz bottle

 

[RPh_Guy]

The recipe I’m using is a blueberry wheat ale. Knowing what I know now, I would need to use the secondary before I add the fruit flavor

Is it just a flavoring? You can add that when packaging, along with your priming sugar (assuming you bottle).

 

[TheHopfather]

The recipe I’m using is a blueberry wheat ale. Knowing what I know now, I would need to use the secondary before I add the fruit flavor, but what I thought was a secondary is actually a second primary. I’m assuming that this other primary will work as a secondary? And any good advise to keeping contamination to a minimum, or should I skip the blueberry and keep it just wheat?

Are you adding real blueberries or are you adding blueberry flavoring? If you are just adding flavoring just go ahead and do it in the primary or at bottling time. If it is real fruit you should pasteurize the fruit, then add the fruit to the empty, sanitized secondary and rack the beer on top of that.

Normally a primary fermentor will be 6 gal or larger to accommodate the head space needed when the yeast get going. A secondary will be a 5 gal fermentor with minimal head space when the beer is racked into it. Oxygen is bad for beer, the reduced head space of a secondary will have less oxygen compared to a larger primary.

 

[deadwolfbones]

First of all, thanks for all the great responses, I can already tell this is going to be a great resource.

The recipe I’m using is a blueberry wheat ale. Knowing what I know now, I would need to use the secondary before I add the fruit flavor, but what I thought was a secondary is actually a second primary. I’m assuming that this other primary will work as a secondary? And any good advise to keeping contamination to a minimum, or should I skip the blueberry and keep it just wheat?

The previous commenters are just being cheeky. The kit probably does describe the second fermetner as a "secondary," but the common wisdom nowadays is that a secondary fermentation in a different vessel is usually unnecessary and only serves to introduce harmful oxygen to your already-fermented beer. (The exceptions are when you add whole fruit/puree and other whole flavoring agents like oak, cacao nibs, coffee, etc.) If your blueberry wheat recipe came with fruit extract instead of whole fruit/puree, you're fine to add it right to the primary fermentation.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Is it just a flavoring? You can add that when packaging, along with your priming sugar (assuming you bottle).

This.
No need to secondary unless you are actually adding real fruit, and even then you could just add it on top in the primary bucket.
Back in the day we were told to be scared of leaving beer in the primary more than 2 weeks.

Turns out that's nonsense. You should be good for at least 4 weeks on the lees with no issues.

Then again, back in the day we were told HSA was a myth too.

Welcome back to brewing. A lot has changed while you were gone.

 

[Cliff Morris]

Again, thanks for the awesome advise. I am using a blueberry extract that came with the kit so no blueberries(or beer) will be hurt in the process . I will keep it in the primary the entire time thanks to yalls responses.

I did read that it’s a good idea to add the flavoring the day before bottling as to not risk over carbonating, is this correct or should it be day of?

 

[deadwolfbones]

The flavoring should be just a vodka-based extract, so there shouldn't be much fermentable sugar in it if any. I wouldn't bother adding it the day-before, but it also wouldn't hurt.

 

[Bubbles2]

Secondary is really a primary just shorter... if it's a fiver. So make some wine with it.

 

[snarf7]

The previous commenters are just being cheeky. The kit probably does describe the second fermetner as a "secondary," but the common wisdom nowadays is that a secondary fermentation in a different vessel is usually unnecessary and only serves to introduce harmful oxygen to your already-fermented beer. (The exceptions are when you add whole fruit/puree and other whole flavoring agents like oak, cacao nibs, coffee, etc.) If your blueberry wheat recipe came with fruit extract instead of whole fruit/puree, you're fine to add it right to the primary fermentation.

This, but it's really up to you, I'm sure it will be fine added directly to the primary or if you prefer to transfer to secondary as the kit suggests that should work fine too. Shoot for adding it just at the end of fermentation so there is still some activity to push any excess oxygen out as it wraps up fermentation. Usually when I dry hop I'm adding them at 7-9 day range based on how much activity I'm seeing in the airlock, then another 3-5 days and it's done and ready to rack up.

While it's important to minimize oxygen exposure in your beer, it's really become one of the things people love to obsess over on these forums, to the point of just being downright silly. Not once have I ever had off flavors due to oxygenation and that's including early on in my brewing experience when I had not yet perfected timing and transfers and how to dry hop properly etc.

 

[RPh_Guy]

This, but it's really up to you, I'm sure it will be fine added directly to the primary or if you prefer to transfer to secondary as the kit suggests that should work fine too. Shoot for adding it just at the end of fermentation so there is still some activity to push any excess oxygen out as it wraps up fermentation. Usually when I dry hop I'm adding them at 7-9 day range based on how much activity I'm seeing in the airlock, then another 3-5 days and it's done and ready to rack up.

The flavoring can and should be added at the time of packaging, so there's no additional oxygen exposure.

While it's important to minimize oxygen exposure in your beer, it's really become one of the things people love to obsess over on these forums, to the point of just being downright silly. Not once have I ever had off flavors due to oxygenation and that's including early on in my brewing experience when I had not yet perfected timing and transfers and how to dry hop properly etc.

Some people don't seem to taste oxidation flavors or notice its deleterious effects. I'm jealous.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

I secondary for each brew. I've never had oxidation problems caused by transferring from primary to secondary. I'm then able to repitch the yeast (if desired) and the secondary storage is easier to handle (having split up the 10 gallon batch into two 5 gallon SS fermenters). I can cold crash the 5 gallon fermenters, I can add something to one of the 5 gallons (fruit, flavoring, etc), but not the other, etc, etc, etc, etc.

Oxidation is real and can happen if one is sloppy about the transfer. However, the same applies to brewing in general. Be careless, be sloppy and bad things may happen.

A blanket "No need to secondary" is, IMO, perhaps another brewing fable that's repeated often enough to become truth?

 

[passedpawn]

This is the Beginner's Beer Brewing forum. Wrong place for another debate on low oxygen brewing. I'm going to wrap up that conversation by saying that it's always an advantage to reduce oxidation after fermentation - don't splash wort, minimize exposure by skipping secondary etc, be quick when exposing. The resulting effects from O2 exposure are always going to argued because they are subjective. That argument isn't right for this beginner's area.

Do a search on this forum for LODO (low disolved oxygen) methods for more info. There's even a forum dedicated for it here: LoDo Discussion and Techniques

 

[balrog]

Again, thanks for the awesome advise. I am using a blueberry extract that came with the kit so no blueberries(or beer) will be hurt in the process . I will keep it in the primary the entire time thanks to yalls responses.

I did read that it’s a good idea to add the flavoring the day before bottling as to not risk over carbonating, is this correct or should it be day of?

I would simply add flavor with priming sugar to bottling bucket, rack from primary to that, bottle and wait the ensuing unimaginably impossible to resist it for an entirety of 2-3 weeks at 72°F.

I have not added extracts, but zested orange peel in a little vodka, strained not shaken or stirred, and no new fermentation resulted.

 

[shortyz]

after i saw the broken carboy thread i threw them all out!

 

[Immocles]

[QUOTE="mongoose33, post: 8638710, member: 218809"


Or you can get a ferm chamber (fancy name for refrigerator or freezer), add an Inkbird 308 controller, a seedling heat mat, and be able to control fermentation precisely.

Here are some pics; swamp cooler, my small ferm chamber, larger one, Inkbirds doing their work.

View attachment 635969 View attachment 635970 View attachment 635972 View attachment 635973 View attachment 635974 View attachment 635977 View attachment 635978[/QUOTE]

Ha! I was just looking through old threads for the guy with the camouflage fridge the other day.
Your bmb seems to fit nicely in that small fridge, is it unmodified? What’s the size on that little guy? I’m looking for a similar size for a 3g fermonster that would still fit a full sized bubbler in a pinch

 

[mongoose33]

Or you can get a ferm chamber (fancy name for refrigerator or freezer), add an Inkbird 308 controller, a seedling heat mat, and be able to control fermentation precisely.

Here are some pics; swamp cooler, my small ferm chamber, larger one, Inkbirds doing their work.

View attachment 635969 View attachment 635970 View attachment 635972 View attachment 635973 View attachment 635974 View attachment 635977 View attachment 635978

Ha! I was just looking through old threads for the guy with the camouflage fridge the other day.
Your bmb seems to fit nicely in that small fridge, is it unmodified? What’s the size on that little guy? I’m looking for a similar size for a 3g fermonster that would still fit a full sized bubbler in a pinch

It is, I believe, 4.4 cu feet. When you go looking, take your larger fermenter with you.

Couple of things specific to this fridge: I didn't bend down the freezer compartment as some do. If you can get it to go, it's great--more headroom for an airlock or whatever. But if you kink or break a line, the fridge is toast.

So, the stopper/rigid tubing thing. The stopper has a small piece of rigid plastic tubing in it (cut from a bottling wand--it's the perfect diameter), and attached is a piece of tubing that terminates in a jar, to act as airlock.

There's room to terminate that in a jar w/ star-san inside the refrigerator, but I didn't want to run the cords past the gaskets. So, I drilled a couple half-inch holes (I think, can't remember for sure) in the front top of the refrigerator, where there are no heating coils. Put rubber grommets there, and passed the cords through one, and the tubing through the other. That way, no cords past the gasket, and I can terminate the airlock tubing in a jar outside the refrigerator. I like watching the bubbles.



You can get the rubber grommets at your local home store; they're cheap.

Second is the plastic on the door; if I put a couple thin scraps of wood under the front of the fermenter and move it to the left all the way, it just barely fits between the plastic stuff on the door. I got lucky, as the center piece is not centered. Often people will just cut that plastic stuff off, and cover the inside of the door with cardboard, duct tape, whatever works. I figured that's what I'd do, but again, I got lucky.

 

[Immocles]

Excellent. I believe I was looking at a very similar one last weekend. The plastic center piece was also off center in that one. I figured I’d have to modify an airlock, or use a tube. I have the perfect place for one to fit under the stairs, but I was afraid the door would stay open and need an extension built out of it. Thanks for the info, and the pics.