When does it get better than commercial?

[mparmer]

I've got a long way to go to be a good brewer, but the interesting thing to me in the 9 or so batches (all different styles) I've brewed since June is how much I've learned about the craft and the different styles. Whether or not I ever get to the point of being as good as a commercial brewer, I really kind of doubt it but I do know this, the beer I'm already making is plenty good for my tastes and from what I have learned already, now sometimes when I do drink one of the styles/brands I used to think were so great, now I think, I'd rather have my own than this ...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

When you stop buying commercial.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I like buying commercial beers and trying new styles/combinations/etc. It's an easy way to keep a diverse selection in the fridge, and since I don't have the capability to do certain things (e.g. lagering) commercial beers are my access to those styles.

I like brewing clones of beers I really like. If I'm going to drink a lot of a certain type of commercial beer, I might as well brew it myself for cost and the enjoyment I get out of brewing.

I also like brewing non-clones. I don't know that my beers are as great as a lot of commercial beers, but they are tasty, I enjoy drinking them, I enjoy the hobby, and there's a sense of satisfaction in popping open a beer and knowing it's mine.

 

[tlsmart1]

What is this one?

This one's a tripel. You should see it now - it has overflowed the milk jug, and there is wort in the overflow pan. A spider was attracted to it and died in the wort. The hallway smells like (good) beer. The dog is lying outside the closet pawing at the door because of the bubbling and the smell. I pitched a starter of about 2.5 liters of White Labs Abbey Yeast. I did a full batch boil but screwed up by starting with too much water, so the original gravity was 1.074 rather than the expected 1.080-1.084.

I don't mean to give the impression that I'm disappointed with the process or the results. My first attempt was meant to be a learning process - but I do really love some of the commercial Abbey style ales!

 

[boo boo]

dont throw out anything! If you are trying to copy a quad, it takes months to condition. My quad that I made a year ago was absolutely disgusting when I bottled, but now a year later is awesome.
quote]

That's the thing about this hobbie/obsession. You like brews like Koningshoeven quadrupel and I think it tastes like bandaid crap.
At least the one I choked down did. I had three... the blond, tripple
and quadrupel and they all tasted of bandaid.

But yes it do take time to properly condition a brew, and brews
like this are meant to be aged before they come into their own.

 

[stageseven]

This one's a tripel. You should see it now - it has overflowed the milk jug, and there is wort in the overflow pan. A spider was attracted to it and died in the wort. The hallway smells like (good) beer. The dog is lying outside the closet pawing at the door because of the bubbling and the smell. I pitched a starter of about 2.5 liters of White Labs Abbey Yeast. I did a full batch boil but screwed up by starting with too much water, so the original gravity was 1.074 rather than the expected 1.080-1.084.

I don't mean to give the impression that I'm disappointed with the process or the results. My first attempt was meant to be a learning process - but I do really love some of the commercial Abbey style ales!

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'd think that a high gravity Belgian would be a really hard brew to get right, especially for a first beer. Did you use a kit or was this a recipe of your own fabrication?

 

[tlsmart1]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I'd think that a high gravity Belgian would be a really hard brew to get right, especially for a first beer. Did you use a kit or was this a recipe of your own fabrication?

It was a kit from Brewer's Best. I did brew a ESB first because I was tired of waiting for the back ordered kit to come in. I'm glad I did.

I didn't follow the kit recipe, exactly because 1) I thought full-batch boil would be better and 2) I didn't think the Nottingham yeast that was included would lend authenticity to the style. So I made a stir plate, ordered a tube of Abbey Yeast, made a 500ml starter which I stepped up to about 2.5L before pitching. Here it is about 20 hours after pitching; great fermentation, but look how much lower the beer level is in the carboy!

I went to Belgium this summer and only got interested in brewing after trying some great beers there and sampling more Belgian beer here at home. So it seemed only natural to attempt brewing my favorite styles. This was definitely another educational brew session, though.

 

[nothreat]

I brewed extract for years and was always "satisfied" with my beer. After I went AG last year and had 3 or 4 batches under my belt, I finally started brewing beers that I thought were great. I now will almost always go to my beer first. I do buy commercial beers to learn about them, but now I always think "I could probably make that". That is way cool.

 

[rico567]

What did Hennepin or Goose Island do to make a beer you can't dream of equaling or besting? There's only so much that goes into a brew. They're not sprinkiling pixie dust in there as a secret ingredient.

Malt, hops, yeast, and water. That's wht they use and that's what we use. Mill, mash, sparge, boil, add hops, cool, add yeast, ferment, carbonate. That's what they do and that's what we do.

This is the operative quote. As a homebrewer, I refuse to allow myself to be "psyched" by commercial (or any other) beer. I make good beer now, and I work on my process and techniques to make it better.

A few things to remember:

1. There's a big psychological component to taste & smell. Always remember that the brain is behind our senses. We went into a local pub the other night to hoist a few pints, and walking in the door were hit by a strong smell of sewage. It appears that local heavy rains caused the sewer to back up in the basement. Well, we decided to stay for a drink. We got our beers, and within 5 minutes, we were not noticing the sewage smell at all, just enjoying the brew. Then the guys down there cleaning up must have dumped some sort of disinfectant in, because the bar started to smell like Lysol. Again, the smell seemed to diminish over 5-10 minutes until it was unnoticeable. Brain at work.

2. Taste & smell differ from one person to another. In some cases this can be genetic. I have a former colleague who can't stand cilantro in food, says it tastes like soap. I, OTOH love cilantro. Ultimately, it comes down to "Do YOU like your beer?"

 

[Austinhomebrew]

The beer you made will take at least 6 months to taste right. You really shouldn't use a 5 gallon carboy as a primary, especially for such a big beer. I would recommend an 8 gallon bucket. Why lose all of that beer and the way it is set up looks like an infection waiting to happen. I jokingly call any beer that has an infection Belgian.

Forrest

 

[tlsmart1]

The beer you made will take at least 6 months to taste right. You really shouldn't use a 5 gallon carboy as a primary, especially for such a big beer. I would recommend an 8 gallon bucket. Why lose all of that beer and the way it is set up looks like an infection waiting to happen. I jokingly call any beer that has an infection Belgian.

Forrest

Thanks for the advice, but maybe you can illuminate me a little more. I've heard John Palmer say that two-stage fermentation is "old school" and he doesn't recommend it except when adding fruit additions or dry hops. Since I'm planning a month-long fermentation, I figured glass would be better. Do you have different advice? Also, please tell me why my setup is an infection waiting to happen. Thanks.

 

[vespa2t]

I would rack into a secondary for a beer like that after the primary fermentation is done. It needs to age, so you can either do that in the secondary, or in the bottles. Secondary is probably preferred, but ties up a valuable carboy for 6 months...and glass is the preferred for secondary definitely, although many (including myself) have used plastic carboys for secondary with success.

 

[khiddy]

I've heard John Palmer say that two-stage fermentation is "old school" and he doesn't recommend it except when adding fruit additions or dry hops. Since I'm planning a month-long fermentation, I figured glass would be better. Do you have different advice?

You should definitely use a two-stage primary-secondary fermentation plan for any beer that you will be bulk-aging for longer than a month or so. You don't want the beer to sit on the dead yeast from the primary fermentation for longer that 4 weeks (some here will say six or eight weeks, but I try to follow the 4 week limit so that I can get my primary bucket back into the pipeline), because you run the VERY REAL risk of autolysis (rupture of the dead yeast cells, releasing nasty flavors/aromas/toxins into your beer). That will happen, I have some proof in the form of dumped batches, though in reality no one can tell you precisely when autolysis will begin to be noticeable. Why run the risk?

Since you plan to bulk-age your trippel for several months, it's best to rack it from the primary into a secondary fermenter after the majority of fermentation is complete (within a few gravity points of your expected Final Gravity, which you can only know by using a hydrometer). Use glass for your secondary fermenter, since that provides the best protection against oxidization (though there is some proof that plastic Better Bottles have pretty good oxygen barrier protection, as well). You can use a 5-gallon carboy for secondary, since you won't have the huge krausen to deal with (though the beer may temporarily get vigorous fermentation right after you rack to the secondary, because you've roused the yeast in the process).

This is what Forrest meant when he said you should use a larger primary fermenter. Most of us use buckets in the 6.5-8.0 gallon size as primaries, since that tends to keep you from losing too much beer (and yeast) into the blowoff bucket. As a matter of fact, with an 8-gallon bucket, I never even use a blowoff tube, since I've not had a fermentation that has been that vigorous yet. We'll see if that remains true after my new stirplate arrives...

 

[Bdogg]

So basically my beer making history is that I made 3 different 'Baron's Beer' kits that came with premade wort, like a wine kit kind of. Then I made a stout from extracts and steeped grains, and now my first all grain batch (pale ale) is in the secondary right now.

The best stout I have ever had is the one I made and I had no real brewing experience. I found a recipe online and followed it as closely as possible and followed the instructions... attention to detail, and read about the process as much as I could before starting, and it turned out wonderfully. I'm not the only one who thinks so either, my friends and family all love it. The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't have much head retention. It fizzes away quickly which is a shame because it is really creamy and nice. So if I ever make that recipe again I will need to find a way to fix that but that's it. I think that taking care and paying attention to fine details, like temperatures, times, sanitation, and picking a good yeast can make a beer as good as or better than what you can buy at the store. Now hopefully my pale ale doesn't turn out like crap or I guess I'll have to eat my words a bit

 

[yuppiecruncher]

In response to :

I dumped a bottle of my first homebrew down the drain today when my wife suggested I open the bottle of Koenings Hoeven Quadrupel that was in the fridge. It was a good choice - my first batch doesn't come remotely close. My second batch is showing great fermentation, but I'm skeptical that I'll prefer it over good commercial beer. How long does it take until you think, "No thanks, I've got my own?"

Its not about getting "better" than commercial breweries. I love brewing for brewing. I don't do it to save money on beer, and I don't do it because I think I can improve a beer. I appreciate all the interpretations of the great imbibement known as beer. I do it because its fun, its challenging and feeds my creative as well as nerdy personality. I love beer because I love making it. My own beer sucked for a long time, but because I liked making it more than drinking it, my skill has increased and so has my beers taste. Brewing gives me an appreciation for the effort that goes into a Sierra Nevada Anniversary ale and gives me a vocabulary for my dislike of all things Yazoo. Its all in your personal tastes and wants. Until you realize that, you will never be "better" than commercial breweries.