When does it get better than commercial?

[tlsmart1]

The beer you made will take at least 6 months to taste right. You really shouldn't use a 5 gallon carboy as a primary, especially for such a big beer. I would recommend an 8 gallon bucket. Why lose all of that beer and the way it is set up looks like an infection waiting to happen. I jokingly call any beer that has an infection Belgian.

Forrest

Thanks for the advice, but maybe you can illuminate me a little more. I've heard John Palmer say that two-stage fermentation is "old school" and he doesn't recommend it except when adding fruit additions or dry hops. Since I'm planning a month-long fermentation, I figured glass would be better. Do you have different advice? Also, please tell me why my setup is an infection waiting to happen. Thanks.

 

[vespa2t]

I would rack into a secondary for a beer like that after the primary fermentation is done. It needs to age, so you can either do that in the secondary, or in the bottles. Secondary is probably preferred, but ties up a valuable carboy for 6 months...and glass is the preferred for secondary definitely, although many (including myself) have used plastic carboys for secondary with success.

 

[khiddy]

I've heard John Palmer say that two-stage fermentation is "old school" and he doesn't recommend it except when adding fruit additions or dry hops. Since I'm planning a month-long fermentation, I figured glass would be better. Do you have different advice?

You should definitely use a two-stage primary-secondary fermentation plan for any beer that you will be bulk-aging for longer than a month or so. You don't want the beer to sit on the dead yeast from the primary fermentation for longer that 4 weeks (some here will say six or eight weeks, but I try to follow the 4 week limit so that I can get my primary bucket back into the pipeline), because you run the VERY REAL risk of autolysis (rupture of the dead yeast cells, releasing nasty flavors/aromas/toxins into your beer). That will happen, I have some proof in the form of dumped batches, though in reality no one can tell you precisely when autolysis will begin to be noticeable. Why run the risk?

Since you plan to bulk-age your trippel for several months, it's best to rack it from the primary into a secondary fermenter after the majority of fermentation is complete (within a few gravity points of your expected Final Gravity, which you can only know by using a hydrometer). Use glass for your secondary fermenter, since that provides the best protection against oxidization (though there is some proof that plastic Better Bottles have pretty good oxygen barrier protection, as well). You can use a 5-gallon carboy for secondary, since you won't have the huge krausen to deal with (though the beer may temporarily get vigorous fermentation right after you rack to the secondary, because you've roused the yeast in the process).

This is what Forrest meant when he said you should use a larger primary fermenter. Most of us use buckets in the 6.5-8.0 gallon size as primaries, since that tends to keep you from losing too much beer (and yeast) into the blowoff bucket. As a matter of fact, with an 8-gallon bucket, I never even use a blowoff tube, since I've not had a fermentation that has been that vigorous yet. We'll see if that remains true after my new stirplate arrives...

 

[Bdogg]

So basically my beer making history is that I made 3 different 'Baron's Beer' kits that came with premade wort, like a wine kit kind of. Then I made a stout from extracts and steeped grains, and now my first all grain batch (pale ale) is in the secondary right now.

The best stout I have ever had is the one I made and I had no real brewing experience. I found a recipe online and followed it as closely as possible and followed the instructions... attention to detail, and read about the process as much as I could before starting, and it turned out wonderfully. I'm not the only one who thinks so either, my friends and family all love it. The only thing I don't like about it is that it doesn't have much head retention. It fizzes away quickly which is a shame because it is really creamy and nice. So if I ever make that recipe again I will need to find a way to fix that but that's it. I think that taking care and paying attention to fine details, like temperatures, times, sanitation, and picking a good yeast can make a beer as good as or better than what you can buy at the store. Now hopefully my pale ale doesn't turn out like crap or I guess I'll have to eat my words a bit

 

[yuppiecruncher]

In response to :

I dumped a bottle of my first homebrew down the drain today when my wife suggested I open the bottle of Koenings Hoeven Quadrupel that was in the fridge. It was a good choice - my first batch doesn't come remotely close. My second batch is showing great fermentation, but I'm skeptical that I'll prefer it over good commercial beer. How long does it take until you think, "No thanks, I've got my own?"

Its not about getting "better" than commercial breweries. I love brewing for brewing. I don't do it to save money on beer, and I don't do it because I think I can improve a beer. I appreciate all the interpretations of the great imbibement known as beer. I do it because its fun, its challenging and feeds my creative as well as nerdy personality. I love beer because I love making it. My own beer sucked for a long time, but because I liked making it more than drinking it, my skill has increased and so has my beers taste. Brewing gives me an appreciation for the effort that goes into a Sierra Nevada Anniversary ale and gives me a vocabulary for my dislike of all things Yazoo. Its all in your personal tastes and wants. Until you realize that, you will never be "better" than commercial breweries.