Wheat question

[Abrayton]

Greetings. I have a question regarding which wheat to use for a hibiscus saison. I want to keep the recipe as simple as possible with 8 lbs Belgian pilsner and 1 lb of either white wheat malt or German wheat malt. I want to keep SRM as low as possible because I'm looking for the brilliant pink/red color of the hibiscus (not so much the flavor). Looking for recommendations as to which wheat would be better for this recipe or if it really matters.
Cheers

 

[triethylborane]

The husk imparts a slightly different hue. White wheat has a yellow straw color while the german wheat will give a slight reddish tone that you see in hefeweizens. There are some flavor differences, but with the quantity and probable yeast you most likely won't be able to detect it - I doubt I would.

Hibiscus saison sounds wonderful. So I suppose Id go with white wheat malt if you were looking for the most of that brilliant hibiscus red color to come through.

 

[hlmbrwng]

This past winter I brewed a hibiscus saison. Got 2nd place in a HB competition in the spiced beer category (since with the hibiscus it's not a classic style). Here is the malt bill...

5 gal batch
German Pilsner (2-row) 7 lbs
Vienna Malt 2 lbs
Wheat, Malted (Light) 1 lbs

Hibiscus was added @ 5 minutes. 2.12 oz (12 grams/gallon). Steeped until temperature of wort reached 160 F.

 

[Abrayton]

Looks delicious! I had a hibiscus saison at a local brewery that was deep pink/red and crystal clear. Taste was good too. I'm thinking only pilsner and wheat to keep SRM as low as possible and let the color shine in this one. Hopefully it taste great too!

 

[Gravity]

This past winter I brewed a hibiscus saison. Got 2nd place in a HB competition in the spiced beer category (since with the hibiscus it's not a classic style). Here is the malt bill...

5 gal batch
German Pilsner (2-row) 7 lbs
Vienna Malt 2 lbs
Wheat, Malted (Light) 1 lbs

Hibiscus was added @ 5 minutes. 2.12 oz (12 grams/gallon). Steeped until temperature of wort reached 160 F.

Looks so good, what hops did you use? Would you mind posting all of the recipe?

I did a grapefruit/Hibiscus IPA , the recipe is posted here somewhere and it had a deeper red color to it, and had great aroma and and flavor from both additions. I'd try it again for sure

 

[hlmbrwng]

Looks so good, what hops did you use? Would you mind posting all of the recipe?

Sure thing! I messed several targets on this one, but it ended up great. I am copying from where I have the recipe elsewhere (on a blog that isn't ready to be shown ;-) ). I can try to rewrite the recipe to take the mistakes and make them the actual recipe. I was still getting my system down at the time. I was having issues between what Beersmith was telling me and what I should actually expect from my system. I basically need to add about 5.5 degrees F to whatever temp the software says to heat my mash water. Also, this is before I made 5.75 gal batches to end up with 5 gal. Here I plan for 5 gal and only end up with 4.25 gal.

Target / Measure

Batch size: 5 / 4.25 gal
Target OG: 1.053 / 1.059
Final Gravity: 1.007 / 1.009
ABV: 6.0 / 6.54 %
Apparent attenuation: 84 %
Target IBU: 29
Estimated SRM: 4.3
(this does not account for color due to hibiscus)

Malt Bill
German Pilsner (2-row) 7 lbs
Vienna Malt 2 lbs
Wheat, Malted (Light) 1 lbs
Hop Schedule
East Kent Goldings 1.00 oz @ 60 min
East Kent Goldings 0.50 oz @ 15 min
Fuggle 0.50 oz @ 15 min
East Kent Goldings 0.50 oz dry hop for 5 days
Fuggle 0.50 oz dry hop for 5 days

Additional ingredients
Hibiscus (dried) 12 grams/gallon

Mash
Pre-heated mash tun with hot/steaming water
12.5 qt (3.125 gal) mash in
160.2 F -> target 149 F (actual aim was 148, but increased target slightly for loss of heat while transferring to mash tun)
Hit 148.5 F. Temperature dropped to about 143.5 F after the mash was complete.
75 minute mash
Collect first runnings (OG 1.086)

Batch Sparge
1.12 gal @ 168 F for 15 min
3.05 gal @ 168 F for 15 min

Water Treatment (mash and sparge water)
Calcium 56.8 ppm
Magnesium 7.3 ppm
Sodium 32.7 ppm
Sulfate 84.0 ppm
Chloride 54.8 ppm

Fermentation
Wyeast 3711 French Saison (liquid yeast - 100 billion cells) - pitched at 72 F

 

[hlmbrwng]

Detailed brew log

Boil: 20 minutes for hot break
Boil: 60 minute boil after


Hibiscus was added @ 5 minutes. 2.12 oz (12 grams/gallon)
Steeped until temperature of wort reached 160 F

* Forgot to add yeast nutrient and irish moss. Turns out it was fine.

Chilled with wort chiller to 72 F then transferred to carboy. Assuming there was some heat loss during transfer, although probably minimal since the wort was close to ambient temperature already.

Shook carboy for aeration of wort.

Pitched yeast into carboy. The nutrient pack within the yeast package was broken and the yeast was left out of fridge for about 3 hours before it was pitched. Pack had expanded--> healthy yeast

Efficiency was estimated to be about 75%.

Set fermentation temperature to 68 F. There is really no correct temperature for a saison. People have reported that a lower temperature (low 60s) will increase the dryness and pepperiness of the saison, while higher temperatures (high 70s and 80s) will increase ester production resulting in more of a fruity, bubblegum flavor. I'm not a fan of the latter, so I kept the temperature somewhere in between the max and min.

3/4/17: Sampled the saison. Gravity at 1.013. The saison is suppose to be highly attenuating and the low temperature mash should promote low final gravity, so the yeast is likely not finished yet.

appearance: grapefruit pink, a bit hazy

smell: tame smells of what one might expect from a (slightly) estery saison

taste: slight fruity esters, lemon @ finish, a bit peppery as well, kinda sweet (likely to change)

3/6/17: Increase fermentation temperature to 22 C (71.6 F)

3/7/17: Increase fermentation temperature to 22.5 C (72.5 F)

​The reason for the temperature increase was to increase the speed of fermentation. It had been 8 days since the yeast was pitched, so I imagine that the yeast won't produce many esters at this point.

3/11/17: Gravity 1.009. Transferred ~1 gallon to 1 gallon carboy for Sour Series 001. Racked onto mixed berries and dregs of 4 sour bottles were pitched. Transferred remaining ~3.5 gallons to 5 gallon keg. Flushed the keg with CO2.

3/14/17: Fermentation is likely complete. I have been releasing the built up pressure from the CO2 produced by the fermentation process. Very little gas is being released. Will dry hop soon, timing it so that the beer can be forced carbed when the IPA being fermented in the fridge can be removed.

3/15/17: Gravity still at 1.009. Dry-hopped with 0.5 oz each of East Kent Golding and Fuggle hops. Hops placed in nylon paint-strainer bag, tied off with string. Bag suspended in beer, with string secured by keg lid. Tastes good and can't wait for this one to be ready. Definitely has a pepper and lemon taste, although the pepper is not too strong. The hibiscus adds some dimension...but the beer tastes fairly clean. A bit of fruitiness as well, but not like what certain yeast strains will produce at higher fermentation temperatures. Not that dry. Some residual sweetness.

3/20/17: Removed hops. Hooked up CO2 to keg and set to about 27 PSI; I wanted it to be set somewhere under 30 PSI. Right now, the taste is a bit funny. First, the beer didn't end up being as dry as I had hoped. I was surprised, because 3711 in combination with a low-temp mash should produce a decently dry beer. Second, it has a soapy taste. Third, the hop flavors and aroma are competing a little bit with the saison flavor. We'll see...it's still a fairly young beer.

3/22/17: Turned PSI down to serving pressure.

3/25/17: The taste is getting better; all of the flavors are beginning to meld together. It is still too sweet by 2-3 gravity points, maybe more. I'm sure some people would prefer it the way it is now. There is a slight metallic taste as a late finish.

3/30/17: The beer tastes great! I just have to remember to be patient with the flavors. It looks like this one takes about a month before all flavors come together. I will definitely brew this one again, but might switch up the yeast and try something like the WLP670 farmhouse blend.

 

[Gravity]

So detailed.....great notes

Awesome

 

[Abrayton]

Ended up brewing this yesterday:
9lb Belgian pilsner
1lb white wheat
1/4oz sorachi ace (fwh)
1/4oz ekg (fwh)
3/8oz ekg (30 min)
1oz hibiscus (flameout)
3711 slurry
This is the first recipe I put together myself so hopefully it's drinkable! Will add hibiscus flowers and tea a few days before bottling for more color and flavor.

 

[hlmbrwng]

Please let us know how it turns out!

 

[Abrayton]

Update: transferred to secondary today with 2 cups of hibiscus tea. After transferring it looked like a dark merlot (first picture) and I thought I over did it on the color. Second picture is the sample I took after transferring. Very little red noticeable, however the flavor is really good. Bottling in a week and I will update after it's carbed.

 

[Abrayton]

Not the color I was going for but this is definitely a unique and delicious beer!

 

[RM-MN]

if you want lighter color yet, consider reducing the amount of Pilsner malt, increasing the white wheat malt, and replacing some of the malt with white rice. The high diastatic power of wheat malt can convert the starch of the white rice up to over 50% of the grain bill. I wouldn't want to go that high because you would lose the flavor of the barley and wheat.

 

[Abrayton]

I think I will leave the recipe alone. This has turned out to be one of my best brews to date. Definitely going into my Christmas gift six packs.