What's with the BIAB fan boys?

[static]

I get it. There is more than one way to all grain and BiaB isn't the only way or the "best" way. I keg and bottle too.

I love my 2 tier setup I built with my brew buddy. But I'll be moving soon and leaving that behind so I'll go BiaB until i can put together another stand. The point is that there are many ways to get to the same result when it comes to beer. And just because the way i do it is different doesn't mean its wrong or bad. Just don't go all gaga over your process and discount someone else.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

@ReverseApacheMaster - you mentioned fancy tools. What's so fancy about a rubbermaid cooler and a length of vinyl hosing? Unless I'm forgetting something I don't see what else requires one to do traditional AG, that's what I'm using. I know you're probably talking about the more complex brew stand setups and such, HERMS, RIMS, etc but that isn't necessary to do AG the traditional way.

A lot of the argument I see against traditional AG is equipment but outside of a cooler with a spigot and some vinyl tubing to drain with I honestly don't know what extra gear all the fuss is about. And I think every household has regular pots lying around to use to heat the strike and sparge water. I use one pot for heating of water.

Rev.

Yeah I was speaking generally about the equipment from cooler to more elaborate set ups. A cooler isn't a "fancy tool" but it does require some modification. Not a lot but more than sticking grain in a bag and dropping it in hot water.

 

[Rev2010]

We know Revvy, but this is an open discussion forum and topics almost never stay perfectly on point. When someone mentions fancy tools for AG I just feel the need to ask what fancy tools we're referring to and I think it's on topic because I think maybe that belief is partly what's behind some of the responses the OP is referring to.


Rev.

 

[usfmikeb]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a vocal group of BIABers on this site, as it makes sense for a large number of people that visit this site. Anyone who has spent any time on this board will tell you that there are a large number of novice brewers that post on this site, all you have to do is look for the basic questions on process (it's been 24 hours and my airlock isn't bubbling, is my beer ruined?). Because of the large number of novice brewers, there are a lot of questions on how to make "the jump" to all grain. Given that a lot of brewers don't stick with the hobby in the long run, it makes the most sense for BIAB to be a very attractive option, in order to allow novice brewers to go all grain without a larger investment.

 

[RM-MN]

You guys aren't getting what the OP and I are saying....you're all now defending BIAB or arguing point/counterpoint and turning the OP's observation into something different. You don't need to defend why you BIAB or any other method. We're not talking ABOUT THE METHOD....

We're talking about how some folks present "the method" in other threads.....

I think I heard my name being spoken......:cross:

 

[aubiecat]

I already told the OP that when I come upon them in the future I'll post them here, so folks can see. You who BIAB probably don't even notice them or notice when they seem inappropriate. You don't see other types of AG brewers say "buy a cooler." or "build a Zap a Pap" And you rarely see these days on here someone other than a zealot say "go ag" but you do quite often see someone say something like "Biab it." Even if the Op is actually a simple question about an extract batch.

Excellent. If I run across any I will do the same. I will like wise post those quotes from other types AG brewers that "you don't see".
I can attest to the fact that there are smart asses from every type of brewing technique.
I am not one of them and I don't care what style people use just as long as they make the beer they like and enjoy doing it. I don't like people that act like their way is the only way as much as I hate beer snobs.

 

[aubiecat]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was a vocal group of BIABers on this site, as it makes sense for a large number of people that visit this site. Anyone who has spent any time on this board will tell you that there are a large number of novice brewers that post on this site, all you have to do is look for the basic questions on process (it's been 24 hours and my airlock isn't bubbling, is my beer ruined?). Because of the large number of novice brewers, there are a lot of questions on how to make "the jump" to all grain. Given that a lot of brewers don't stick with the hobby in the long run, it makes the most sense for BIAB to be a very attractive option, in order to allow novice brewers to go all grain without a larger investment.

I thought most novice brewers were extract brewers. I didn't know most novices were starting out with the BIAB technique.
Is that like saying people with signatures the size of the Wall Street Journal documenting every beer they have ever brewed have L.A.M.S.?

 

[wherestheyeast]

As others have said I think it's part excitement, part defense of process and part informational.

I'm a new brewer and 'discovered' BIAB on this forum (possibly in one of those fanboy threads mentioned).

I got really excited about after studying the process and wanted to share what I 'discovered' with any homebrewer who would listen - including the folks at the two LHBS nearby. Their response ranged from complete ignorance of the method to dismissing it & pointing out numerous 'shortcomings' of the process (that through my research seamed to contradict).

Even Brad Smith (of Brewsmith fame) seems to be a 'fanboy,' evidenced by his excellent BIAB presentation at this years conference in Seattle.

I like to try different methods, (I think this homebrewing thing is a blast!) and may pick up a cooler of some sort to convert, but is it as simple as adding a braided hose & valve? To brew with the cooler method don't you need three pcs of equipment (boil kettle, cooler and a second kettle for spare water?) or can you do it as simply as adding the cooler?

 

[gizmodog51]

i went BIAB only due to economical issues.
i had priced traditional 3 vessel systems and no matter how I cut corners it wouldn't work for me $ wise.
i think all brewers should work together to help each other in the art & hobby regardless of what method folks embrace.
like when I ride my motorcycle ...i wave at everyone on two motored wheels,
it's about riding not what you ride........
let the barley do the talking, git yer brew on!!!:rockin:

GD51

 

[bottlebomber]

I've noticed the same. I hate to make this analogy, but it reminds me a lot of the DOS boys back in the late 80's early 90's. They took great pride in being able to make their systems do what they wanted, and definitely carried an attitude of elitism and snobbery, which was ironic because their computers all sucked. I'm not saying your systems suck. I mean having a motorized pulley system bolted to the garage ceiling is a pretty serious investment. But it definitely doesn't give license for any kind of attitude, especially when I'm making beer at 80% efficiency with one 10 gallon kettle and a water cooler.

 

[passedpawn]

What's wrong with zealousness or fanboyism? I dont' BIAB, but get me talking about homebrewing and I'll be overzealous. I'm a boor at a party for sure.

Since when do we criticize our own members for being overzealous? Geez.

 

[kaconga]

What's wrong with zealousness or fanboyism? I dont' BIAB, but get me talking about homebrewing and I'll be overzealous. I'm a boor at a party for sure.

Since when do we criticize our own members for being overzealous? Geez.

There is a difference between being passionate about something and being dismissive about anything that you are not passionate about.

 

[passedpawn]

There is a difference between being passionate about something and being dismissive about anything that you are not passionate about.

Much ado about nothing. Or, maybe I'm really good at not stepping in the doo.

 

[aubiecat]

I've noticed the same. I hate to make this analogy, but it reminds me a lot of the DOS boys back in the late 80's early 90's. They took great pride in being able to make their systems do what they wanted, and definitely carried an attitude of elitism and snobbery, which was ironic because their computers all sucked. I'm not saying your systems suck. I mean having a motorized pulley system bolted to the garage ceiling is a pretty serious investment. But it definitely doesn't give license for any kind of attitude, especially when I'm making beer at 80% efficiency with one 10 gallon kettle and a water cooler.

Do you have a link so we can call them out?
Any who has some kind attitude over beer brewing is a bit of a ****** don't you think?

 

[bottlebomber]

Do you have a link so we can call them out?
Any who has some kind attitude over beer brewing is a bit of a ****** don't you think?

Nah, I could never instigate something like that. Although I'll have to say, the BIAB attitude being discussed could be a knee jerk reaction to the attitude the "real" AG brewers give them. I know I've told people that IMHO BIAB sucks before lol. I tried it twice, and had an absolute nightmare with it. For me a cooler mashtun is easier and better on all accounts. That's me though. And passedpawn is right, as usual. We need to stick together as brew bros. Why, just a week ago a guy was having trouble hitting his FG, and I told him his problems would go away if he starting AG brewing. How douchey was that?

 

[Krovitz]

There are fan boys for every aspect of homebrewing. BIAB zealots, All grain snobs, hop heads, maltsters, keggers, the thermapen salesmen!... Sometimes they're a little douchey but personally I have learned a **** load from all of them. People just get really passionate about their technique, system, gadget; you just have to filter out the hammer over the head.

 

[mb82]

Although I'll have to say, the BIAB attitude being discussed could be a knee jerk reaction to the attitude the "real" AG brewers give them.

For me personally this is what I see. BIAB people somewhat defending their technique from people who look down on it saying it does not work, it is highly inefficient, it is too difficult to lift some weight up. And trying to bolster their ranks in order to prove to those people who talk down to them that it does work. I admit I probably am one of those people who is the reason this thread was started. I will back off when it comes to trying to bolster the ranks.

 

[friday]

I don't look down on Brew in bag folks at all, but why do it at all?

I've done a brew in bag and it's ok. How hard is it to pick up a 5 dollar ice chest second hand and build a braid?

I've done both, I'll spend the extra 10 dollars and one hour of time to build it.

 

[modernlifeisANDY]

I don't look down on Brew in bag folks at all, but why do it at all?

I've done a brew in bag and it's ok. How hard is it to pick up a 5 dollar ice chest second hand and build a braid?

I've done both, I'll spend the extra 10 dollars and one hour of time to build it.

That's not the point though. I actually started as an AG 3-vessel brewer. I have my own cooler MT, a March pump, and a full system for making some great beer. That said, I like the convenience of BIAB. It's easier on the clean-up, and I don't find it difficult to maintain my mash temperatures. I use a keggle with a custom-made bag, and it is a super easy brew day - that's important when you have a 1-year-old. Add to that the fact that my beer quality hasn't suffered and you have a pretty compelling process.

 

[Xpertskir]

What's wrong with zealousness or fanboyism? I dont' BIAB, but get me talking about homebrewing and I'll be overzealous. I'm a boor at a party for sure.

Sad but true about all of us I'm sure.

At party..

Friend "Hey man this beer is great!"

Me "yeah it's ok, It has a, b, c off flavors and I wish the brewer would have done x, y, z"

Friend :confused look, sips beer, moves on to next conversation:

 

[TopherM]

I've certainly seen more than a handful of traditional brewers call BIAB an "intermediate" brewing method, which usually illicits the BIAB defenders to speak up! I've never seen a BIAB brewer put down traditional brewing on any grounds besides the expense and space of the extra vessels and slightly longer brewday.

Point being, I've never seen a BIAB brewer call traditional brewing inferior on anything but the facts, but I've seen PLENTY of traditional brewers call BIAB inferior based on misinformation.

 

[usfmikeb]

I thought most novice brewers were extract brewers. I didn't know most novices were starting out with the BIAB technique.
Is that like saying people with signatures the size of the Wall Street Journal documenting every beer they have ever brewed have L.A.M.S.?

You've misread my post. Most novice brewers do extract, and want to jump to AG. They start asking questions, and BIAB is a natural recommendation.

 

[usfmikeb]

There is a difference between being passionate about something and being dismissive about anything that you are not passionate about.

Now you're describing 3 vessel AG brewers, who routinely dismiss anyone who do anything different than they do. Extract and BIAB brewers might have a chip on their shoulder that's created by people on this site that dismiss their method because they do it in a "more traditional" manner.

 

[usfmikeb]

I've certainly seen more than a handful of traditional brewers call BIAB an "intermediate" brewing method, which usually illicits the BIAB defenders to speak up! I've never seen a BIAB brewer put down traditional brewing on any grounds besides the expense and space of the extra vessels and slightly longer brewday.

Point being, I've never seen a BIAB brewer call traditional brewing inferior on anything but the facts, but I've seen PLENTY of traditional brewers call BIAB inferior based on misinformation.

Agreed. I only see BIAB brewers recommending their method to people as an alternative to buying a much larger system. makes complete sense to me.

 

[unionrdr]

I did my 1st PM pale ale yesterday from a midwest kit. I figured that would be easier than trying to get the right amounts of what grains from scratch. Plus it came with a large grain bag,so I went for it. My new electric stove burners heat up faster & more evenly than the stock ones did. But harder to maintain temps than the old ones.
Worked out well,but I can def see where sparging may not be as good with biab vs traditional methods. But it's cheaper & easier to get started with mashing. Still added a couple hours to my brew day. But I have to say,the wort smells...cleaner. Hop aromas stand out a bit more defined in my experience with it. Now if the blow off would just start...

 

[aubiecat]

Nah, I could never instigate something like that. Although I'll have to say, the BIAB attitude being discussed could be a knee jerk reaction to the attitude the "real" AG brewers give them. I know I've told people that IMHO BIAB sucks before lol. I tried it twice, and had an absolute nightmare with it. For me a cooler mashtun is easier and better on all accounts. That's me though. And passedpawn is right, as usual. We need to stick together as brew bros. Why, just a week ago a guy was having trouble hitting his FG, and I told him his problems would go away if he starting AG brewing. How douchey was that?

It's sometimes hard to tell the writer intent when reading their words in a forum.
I know you were being somewhat sarcastic when you said "real" brewers but the next guy might see it as an insult.
Giving a fellow brewer helpful information isn't being douchey if done in a non condescending way.

I personally dismiss any "advice" from the "my way or the highway people". I put people on ignore that talk down to others because their advice is useless. Pissing contests and troll threads are useless in a place where people are trying to get help and/or help others.

99.99% of the people are great and I love this site because I have learned a lifetime of knowledge in a short time.

 

[MMJfan]

I've certainly seen more than a handful of traditional brewers call BIAB an "intermediate" brewing method, which usually illicits the BIAB defenders to speak up! I've never seen a BIAB brewer put down traditional brewing on any grounds besides the expense and space of the extra vessels and slightly longer brewday.

Point being, I've never seen a BIAB brewer call traditional brewing inferior on anything but the facts, but I've seen PLENTY of traditional brewers call BIAB inferior based on misinformation.

Great point. I can't count how many times I've read comments from seemingly pretentious AG brewers questioning how good the beer you can make doing extract or BIAB brewing. Because some AG brewer didn't get good results trying BIAB somehow means that no one has great results?

My thing is, I could care less how you brew beer. I choose to do mostly extract due to time constraints and discovering BIAB has given me a way to expand into AG brewing while not expending the time and money traditional AG brewing requires. All that should matter is whether or not you are happy with whatever method of homebrewing you choose to use. If you are an AG brewer, and are happy with AG brewing, why feel the need to disparage or discredit other methods? And the same can be said for BIAB and extract brewers.

In the end, it shouldn't matter what method of homebrewing you choose. What matters is if you are enjoying that method and if you are making good beer...

 

[usfmikeb]

In the end, it shouldn't matter what method of homebrewing you choose. What matters is if you are enjoying that method and if you are making good beer...

Fully agree!

 

[aubiecat]

Great point. I can't count how many times I've read comments from seemingly pretentious AG brewers questioning how good the beer you can make doing extract or BIAB brewing. Because some AG brewer didn't get good results trying BIAB somehow means that no one has great results?

My thing is, I could care less how you brew beer. I choose to do mostly extract due to time constraints and discovering BIAB has given me a way to expand into AG brewing while not expending the time and money traditional AG brewing requires. All that should matter is whether or not you are happy with whatever method of homebrewing you choose to use. If you are an AG brewer, and are happy with AG brewing, why feel the need to disparage or discredit other methods? And the same can be said for BIAB and extract brewers.

In the end, it shouldn't matter what method of homebrewing you choose. What matters is if you are enjoying that method and if you are making good beer...

You, sir, get a gold star. nestar:

 

[Skelator]

There are lots of ways to skin the brewing cat and most of them are represented on here.

It seems like most of the people on here are pretty open minded about different ways to do things, except the BIAB crowd. Ok now that I think about it maybe there is a general lack of open minded-ness but the BIAB crowd seems to be the most vocal. Why is it that in any thread someone posts asking about their process the answer from this crowd is always "you should be BIAB"?

I'm sure its been said, but you can replace 'BIAB crowd' with 'AG crowd' and you'll still be right. i think it comes down to personal preference and perhaps some people doing BIAB have found quick success so they're subconsciously thinking they know it all... and want to pass their new knowledge to anyone who'll listen. Maybe they've long been the ones on here without a lot of information or knowledge to share and we're jealous of those AG brewers who know more and now have something to contribute?

Either way, BIAB is great just like AG is great. Personally, BIAB is a great way to practice and get some things dialed in BEFORE that leap to traditional AG. Learn how to mash consistently, sparge, and find what recipes work before you spend tons of cash going traditional (as in buying burners, propane, big kettles/keggles, sculpture, temp control, and whatever else traditional brewers use).