What's the point of a mash out?

[Everhard]

Thanks y'all, basically re-affirm that I'll just continue on as I'm doing. Fly sparging is giving me a great efficiency, and frankly simpler in my books vs batch sparging. For myself that is! Not saying easier for everyone else.

E.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

So doing a mash out does help if you are trying to duplicate that stellar beer you made last year and want to repeat it as close as possible.

I know that beer that I made last year was stellar, but it's hard for me to remember exactly what it tasted like, because I've been drinking since then. And If I had bottled up some of it, it would have matured over the year, slightly changing it as well.

 

[jcav]

I know that beer that I made last year was stellar, but it's hard for me to remember exactly what it tasted like, because I've been drinking since then. And If I had bottled up some of it, it would have matured over the year, slightly changing it as well.

Yes and if you wanted to repeat it and you took good notes on your process that day, and did a mash out, you would probably duplicate that dandy beer!

John

 

[cmac62]

Yes and if you wanted to repeat it and you took good notes on your process that day, and did a mash out, you would probably duplicate that dandy beer!

John

Closer anyway.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

Yes and if you wanted to repeat it and you took good notes on your process that day, and did a mash out, you would probably duplicate that dandy beer!

John

Notes ?

I fly sparge and the mash out happens in the kettle as the wort gets transferred to the kettle and the flame is on.

I write a recipe with BeerSmith, then get out the grain, if for instance it says 18.2 pounds of base malt, I might get 18, might get 19 or wtf, 20 is close enough. When it come to hops, most of the time full ounces, or if there isn't much left to put up, wtf it all goes in, it will be good beer and I will be happy. I have several hydrometers and a refractometer, don't bother using any of them, if the recipe says the beer should be 7.3% abv, if it ends up being 6.9 or 8, it's still beer and I'll be happy and drink it. I'm just brewing for me and anyone that happens to come over. The Chief of Police has been by and sampled several as well, I'll share it with anyone that wants to try it and send them home with some if they want it. It's been years sine I brewed a beer that I wasn't happy with the outcome and brewed enough different beers that it doesn't matter. Now due to my present job role, I've only brewed twice in about the last two years, but still have a bunch of beer on-deck and in four solaras(two of which are oak barrels), and currently a Belgian Golden Strong in an oak barrel as well, that went into the barrel when I was home around Christmas.

Now there was one beer that I brewed a long time ago, that this guy came over to help and kept asking how we could make it bigger, it was a RIS that ended up somewhere near 18%. I would like to have another batch of that, but really don't have a clue as to how much grain was actually used, as we ended up doing a partygyle for the second & third beers from that grain, used multiple process on the big RIS (boiled down some of the first runnings separately into almost a syrup and added it back to the main boil) , and started with WLP-006 yeast and added several vials of WLP-099 several days into it (as soon as we could get it there since the original plan was for a "more normal" beer). And to add to the confusion, we were drinking during that brew as well. I do have a bottle or two of that beer left. The last few that I've opened, I've shared with special friends. I called that beer, "The Big Monster RIS".

All blasphemy, I know.

 

[Beer666]

Mashing out reliably gives me an extra 4 gravity points.

 

[jcav]

Notes ?

Haha, I know. Everyone brews differently and does what works for them. For me I use BeerSmith and follow my recipe but I also have a note book that I have next to my computer. I write stuff down during the brew day for each brew I do. I usually will write down what time I started heating strike water, what time I reached mash temp, What time the rest was over, then if I step mash what time I started ramping to that temp, and what time I reached the temp and started that step. What temp I mashed out at and how long.

Nothing crazy but simple short notes along the way. I particularly note what time I started to fly sparge and what time I ended with a full boil kettle. What time I pitched the yeast and at what temp. Just stuff along the way. Then when I want to make the same beer again I can see what I did last time and it does help a lot having the notes. If I do something differently that day I write that down in the notes and see if the beer is even better or not. I know it's just beer, but it's something I have always done and after 19 years brewing some habits are hard to break!

John

 

[Jayjay1976]

I've never done an all day mash, but the wort can't caramelize or myarde (spelling) at that temp, so I would guess there should not be any darkening of the mash/wort.

Maillard

 

[MicroMickey]

The purpose of the mash-out is oft times explained as “stopping all enzymic action”, “denaturing the enzymes” or “killing the enzymes.” It does this but the boil they’ll shortly endure should take care of the “killing” part. Raising the mash to a mash-out temp decreases the viscosity of the wort and makes it easier to extract the sugars into the kettle. Many homebrewers don’t mash-out for one reason or another. Unless you’ve mashed to provide a wort high in dextrins, the mash-out can be skipped. The mash-out can increase your efficiency but to a much lesser degree than your choice of lauter and sparge.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

Sounds tempting but I don't think I'd have the yarbles to let the pump run unattended all day.

I do a recirculated mash, and I don't like walking away for even short periods while the pump is running (fear of something coming loose and hot wort being pumped across my kitchen floor at high velocity, or something blocking a tube and the pump burning out).

I'm probably being overly cautious, that is true, but there's no way I could ever let the pump run on an all-day mash while I was at work or shopping. Nope.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

I go back and forth on the mash-out... IMO there's no downside other than the extra time it takes, and with a direct-fired mash tun (in my case, an Anvil Foundry) it's completely effortless to do.

Does it actually do anything important? Probably not, at least not the way I brew these days. (And I've always questioned if this is just another one of those things that homebrewers have long done "because the pros do it", but we don't really have to at this scale.)

I do a recirculated no-sparge / BIAB-ish mash, and even though a mash-out is only 15-20º higher than mash temp I figure it might make the wort drain out of the mash just a little bit easier... maybe. I dunno.

In the end, if I'm not pressed for time I usually do it, but if I'm trying to get through the session as quickly as possible I don't and I don't worry about it, either.

 

[cmac62]

Mashing out reliably gives me an extra 4 gravity points.

Interesting, had not heard this. I guess this is related to quote #3.

Maillard

Thanks Jay, damn spelling.

Raising the mash to a mash-out temp decreases the viscosity of the wort and makes it easier to extract the sugars into the kettle. Many homebrewers don’t mash-out for one reason or another. Unless you’ve mashed to provide a wort high in dextrins, the mash-out can be skipped. The mash-out can increase your efficiency but to a much lesser degree than your choice of lauter and sparge.

Thanks Mickey, I don't recall if I've heard that the mash out thins the mash and makes the sparge more effective.

Edit: This is my first thread that made it to 2 pages. Woo hoo. LOL

 

[Transamguy77]

I personally have not seen the benefits of a mash out, I understand the science behind it and I have done several brews with and without and I don’t notice a difference.

Now as long as I have brewed AG I always did a sparge, a dunk sparge with BIAB and Fly sparge with my 3 tier set up and tried batch sparging once. I get the best results with a fly sparge and I actually find it easier. I also sparge with 190+ temp water and I know people will say “you’ll extract tannins!” Well I don’t and even though the water in my HLT is that hot my grain bed is not. After sparging a keggle mash tun with water that hot I’m lucky if my last runnings for a 10 gallon batch are 170, the amount of dilution keeps the water from getting that much hotter.

I feel that there are a lot of systems and a lot of different ways to brew out there so just because 1 person has something happen one way doesn’t mean you’ll have the same results on your system doing it your way.

 

[cmac62]

I personally have not seen the benefits of a mash out, I understand the science behind it and I have done several brews with and without and I don’t notice a difference.

Me either. especially if you put the heat to the BK once you get 2-3 gals in there.

 

[day_trippr]

One would have to do the analysis to see if there was any "difference" batch to batch mash-out or not, sensory appreciation notwithstanding.

Anyway, at a quart per minute it takes roughly 8 minutes to "get 2 gals in there".
It will be another 48 minutes before the last quart of the run-off hits the boil kettle for a 14 gallon pre-boil volume.
That's almost as long as the mash duration, and many folks seem to think the mash duration is important...

Cheers!

 

[Transamguy77]

I think this is going to be one of those practices that have different effects with different people and different systems but for me i don't see a difference.