What's the current buzz on Ellagic Acid (and Ellagitannins) as an antioxidant for beer brewing?

[Silver_Is_Money]

Ellagic Acid, often referred to as one of the super antioxidants, is found to naturally reside within certain fruits, and interestingly enough, in Whisky that has been aged in Oak barrels. It is readily available in powder form. Discussions are seen for it on another beer brewing forum. Has anyone on this forum given it a go yet, and if so, what results did you achieve?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/jib.70
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellagic_acid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellagitannin
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jf8012713

 

[JAReeves]

Sounds fascinating. The possibility adds dimensions to the IPA's that were barrel-aged a year before being transported across oceans.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It at least potentially may become an alternative to Brewtan B. ???

 

[Vale71]

Sounds fascinating. The possibility adds dimensions to the IPA's that were barrel-aged a year before being transported across oceans.

Not really. Before stainless steel replaced wood beer barrels were lined with pitch in order to avoid direct contact between beer and wood and to reduce oxygen ingress, unlike spirits and wines which were aged in direct contact with the wood.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Quercetin is a potential superoxide scavenger and antioxidant that might be of interest to a qualified professional researcher in this arena.

 

[JAReeves]

Not really. Before stainless steel replaced wood beer barrels were lined with pitch in order to avoid direct contact between beer and wood and to reduce oxygen ingress, unlike spirits and wines which were aged in direct contact with the wood.

I have been thinking about this and I wonder why no one mentions the pitch flavor when they talk about beer-specifically IPA's sent to India. It is a distinct flavor when one considers wines that are aged/fermented in pitched wood barrels like Retsina.

 

[Vale71]

That's because pitch made from tar imparts no flavor at all.

 

[DHOMD]

Whatever formulation you get, I would mix into a growler for a week and do a blind taste test with + without Ellagic acid.

At the end of the day, all that matters is the taste. So 1st thing to check is does it impart any 'flavors'

 

[madscientist451]

Ellagic Acid, often referred to as one of the super antioxidants, is found to naturally reside within certain fruits, and interestingly enough, in Whisky that has been aged in Oak barrels. It is readily available in powder form. Discussions are seen for it on another beer brewing forum.

Thanks for posting, I've never heard of it.
Just yesterday, I listened to a podcast about adding sulfites when kegging, like you would do when you bottle wine.
.3 grams for 5 gallons was the recommended amount. The results of their trial were somewhat inconclusive.
Are the discussions on the other forum providing amounts and if it works better than sulfite?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thanks for posting, I've never heard of it.
Just yesterday, I listened to a podcast about adding sulfites when kegging, like you would do when you bottle wine.
.3 grams for 5 gallons was the recommended amount. The results of their trial were somewhat inconclusive.
Are the discussions on the other forum providing amounts and if it works better than sulfite?

I believe it is substituting for Brewtan-B in an antioxidant blend which also includes sodium metabisulfite and ascorbic acid. No clue or guarantee as to whether or not it is actually a viable substitute.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

https://www.enolife.it/en/prodotti/tannins/bt-11-2/

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

And for beer:

Linea OXNOMORE - Senza categoria - Enolife - Al servizio dell'enologia

Watch for a new line of antioxidants called the "Oxnomore" line. A bit more about it is found here:

In conclusion, the samples with phenolic extracts showed a better stability in terms of turbidity, colour formation and foam quality.
The use of all studied phenolic extracts showed an enhancement of flavour stability and a protective effect on beer quality. The best results were obtained with the condensed tannins and in particular with the extract Oxnomore super (a high purity green tea extract).
Specifically, data analysis revealed beer with Oxnomore super as the most stable, limiting the increase in colour and turbidity and the loss of foam. Moreover, the panellists judged the beer added with Oxnomore super to be the most elegant for aroma and taste, with a smooth and rounded body. Further, Oxnomore super showed an interesting antioxidant activity: excellent inhibition of free radicals (DPPH), good reducing capacity against the Fe3+ ion (FRAP), and above all exhibited excellent oxygen scavenger action (ABTS) as demonstrated also by the substantial reduction of the dissolved oxygen.
Also, Oxnomore pro recorded relevant antioxidant power and excellent quality and analytical values, but especially improved the overall organoleptic beer profile. Grape seed tannins increased the citric and spicy notes, but above all increased the body of the beer, defined by the judges as more rounded.
This study confirms that the condensed phenolic extracts are a possible solution to counteract the effects of beer aging. According to our results, it is important to test the phenolic extracts before marketing them and then adding beer. This work makes it clear how each tannin can bring different characteristics to beer especially from the organoleptic point of view. Cooperation between universities and companies remains a fundamental aspect.

Effect of Addition of Different Phenolic-Rich Extracts on Beer Flavour Stability

 

[day_trippr]

Names are hard

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Names are hard

Italian words and trademarks can be like that sometimes from an English perspective. But none the less, the bottom line is that Ellagitannins as antioxidants are nothing new.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

NOTE: This same Italian company is working on antioxidants that will do away with the need for bisulfites.

 

[Tuur_Mertens]

From 'Complexation of transition metals by chelators added during mashing and impact on beer stability':

Pomegranate extract (90% ellagic acid) was the best performing chelator and reduced radical generation in wort (80% reduction by 60 mg/L addition), making it a promising novel compound in the improvement of beer shelf life

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thank you kindly @Tuur_Mertens for posting this!!! Is Pomegranate extract with ~90% Ellagic Acid readily available at retail?

Can we take it that (aside from the beneficial metals chelation impact of the Pomegranate extract) one can achieve a noticeable measure of antioxidant benefit from reduced Iron (etc...) simply via mashing at pH 5.6 as opposed to say 5.2? And if so, is this to be understood as 5.6 mash pH when measured at actual mash temperature, or as measured from Wort samples that are first cooled to 20-25 degrees C.?

Would you be in general agreement that a nominal room temperature measured mash pH of 5.60 would likely read as a pH of closer to ballpark 5.35-5.40 if measured at nominal mash temperatures as seen for single infusion mashes?

 

[Tuur_Mertens]

Thank you kindly @Tuur_Mertens for posting this!!! Is Pomegranate extract with ~90% Ellagic Acid readily available at retail?

Yes and no. The products that are available now are not intended for brewing. That said, the same company that also produces BrewTan is working on a pomegranate-based beer stabilizer. Their aim is to have a product market-ready by next year.

Can we take it that (aside from the beneficial metals chelation impact of the Pomegranate extract) one can achieve a noticeable measure of antioxidant benefit from reduced Iron (etc...) simply via mashing at pH 5.6 as opposed to say 5.2?

Mashing at a less acidic pH (e.g. 5.6) will give you lower levels of iron and manganese in the finished wort, which should give you a more oxidative stable beer. Adding pomegranate extract will give you additional anti-oxidative power, by decreasing those metals levels even further, plus the fact that the ellagic acid wil be a radical quencher by itself.

And if so, is this to be understood as 5.6 mash pH when measured at actual mash temperature, or as measured from Wort samples that are first cooled to 20-25 degrees C.?

Unless stated otherwise, pH is always measured at room temperature. This is important, as you will find different pH values at higher temperatures (even if your probe is temperature corrected).

Would you be in general agreement that a nominal room temperature measured mash pH of 5.60 would likely read as a pH of closer to ballpark 5.35-5.40 if measured at nominal mash temperatures as seen for single infusion mashes?

Yes. This calculator can give you a rough estimation of the differences: pH Temperature Correction Calculator

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Thanks again! A strong motivator to adopt the practice of mashing at pH 5.6 as opposed to 5.2 or 5.4, plus a strong incentive to look for upcoming Pomegranate sourced Ellagic Acid products.

@Tuur_Mertens, have you ever heard of the 'Enolife' company? They primarily seem to have interest in antioxidants for wine, but may have some beer antioxidants in the pipeline.

 

[Tuur_Mertens]

Can't say I have.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

https://www.enolife.it/linea-oxnomore/
https://www.enolife.it/prodotti-enologici/tannini/

 

[DuncB]

@Silver_Is_Money
Not heard of enolife but have dealt with this company www.kauriwine.com

They have a few potentially interesting products I got a sample from them but haven't done a double batch to compare the use of a clarifier / fining agent they sent me.

Looking at their website this may be of interest for this thread.

https://www.kauriwine.com/nz/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2021/11/kauri_pif_2b_reprise_bio_2021.pdf