What's the big deal with kit brewing

[brewgar]

Repeating what someone else said, I would agree that's the elitist attitude.

I've only brewed with extract and fresh ingredients and haven't had a bad beer (have had bad ciders though). I typically try to find a base beer that I want to build mine off of and then add in everything that I want in a beer in split batches.

At this point I don't see the value in spending the $$$$ on an all-grain build out...maybe if a used build pops up locally.

I would like to see someone run an all-grain and an extract side by side and have blind tasting. I am sure there are reads/videos about that worth looking up.

I actually did an extract batch and an all grain batch of the same beer last Fall. Recipes for the two Irish Red Ales were the same except the all grain/extract difference. Both were good. The all grain was better. Using the BIAB method with AG is as easy as the extract method, with no additional equipment, except the bag. My AG process does take about 30 minutes longer than extract.

 

[Kent88]

Biggest thing I keep repeating to myself is "taste is subjective, I need to do what I can to satisfy my own palette and my own curiosities".

I brew mostly 3-gallon batches, I call my method "partial-extract" because I almost always load up my 3-gallon mash tun with as much malt as I'm comfortable putting in there. I then supplement with dry extract. Usually I don't have to add much extract, I usually get most of my fermentable sugars from grain. I'm just more comfortable with dry extract rather than syrup, and I end up using extra by baking pizza dough, bread, pretzels, waffles, etc with it.

I switched to partial-extract because I found that I really liked beers with made with munich malt and I had trouble finding a dry munich malt extract (and I've only found one supplier so far, and I haven't tried it yet). So if I wanted to to make a munich malt heavy beer, like a bock, I needed to make it myself.

I also found that I like some beers with adjuncts. I have made a good rye ale and I keep forgetting I did that and I don't understand why I haven't made one since. I have also adopted an oatmeal-cream stout recipe as my go-to house stout recipe. There are some rye syrup extracts out there, but I haven't found many. And if you want an oatmeal stout, you'll have to do a mash, or at least a mini-mash (which is a mash, there is nothing partial about that, but whatever, some people still call it a partial-mash) to get some enzymes to work on the starches in the oats.

That is why I use all-grain and partial-extract methods, because I want to use malts/grains that I don't usually find in extract form and don't work by steeping. But if you're happy with extract, great! Go for it! There is a phrase I've been hearing lately around the internets, "I don't want to yuck your yum". Don't let people yuck your yum.

 

[waldoar15]

Eh, brew however you like.

I'd say the majority here started out brewing extract kits and branched out from there. I did.

Personally, I was never really happy with my extract brews, but part of that was because I was a new brewer.

 

[TwistedGray]

I actually did an extract batch and an all grain batch of the same beer last Fall. Recipes for the two Irish Red Ales were the same except the all grain/extract difference. Both were good. The all grain was better.

Curious how you quantified the all grain version was better? And are we talking marginally better or day and night difference?

 

[lump42]

I started out with 1 gal AG, moved to 5 g AG. Then I had a kid and I have been brewing more extract than AG. I enjoy the process of all grain, but if it comes to brewing or not, I have no problem with extract.

Extract is more expensive, but I've always seen it as buying someone else's time (or buying your own time back). Time is more limited and precious to me now, so its cheaper to brew extract from that view.

 

[TwistedGray]

I also brew during my work day, so I try to limit the interruptions. While it does extend my work day it all jives with it well enough to not be a distraction. I reserve my weekends for drinking said brew, and pestering my wife.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

To the OP - @New beer brewer2018 -

a) Do what you want, and do what you like. Period.

If interested in considering another option, read on....

b) I have 4 kids and commute 25 miles to work and back. Busy and hectic. I started with 1-gallon all-grain from Brooklyn Brew Shop, and never looked back. After doing a bunch of their pre-packaged mixes, I started trying a few tried-and-true recipes, then before long I was creating my own...with mostly good success and only one outright failure, which was completely my fault. This concept fits my lifestyle perfectly, and I've learned more about the fundamentals of brewing that I would have thought possible in such a short time.

It might be an option for you, if you want to take a look:

Kits: https://brooklynbrewshop.com/collections/beer-making-kits

Pre-packaged mixes: https://brooklynbrewshop.com/collections/beer-making-mixes

I'll be the first to admit that they might be a bit over-priced, if you're looking solely at ingredients and equipment; however, the knowledge you pick up is worth it, in my opinion, and makes these a very good gateway into all-grain brewing. If you have an LHBS nearby, you can of course just get the equipment and the grains, but to me, the "gateway" factor makes these worth a try. It certainly doesn't cost too much to find out, and it never hurts to have some small-batch equipment around.

Food for thought....

Ron

 

[jpakstis]

Yeah, if it works go with it! For me the only "brew day" smell that rivals adding hops to the boil is the smell of doughing in the grains. If you're going to be steeping grains, you're already 75% of the way there to BIAB in my mind.

 

[TwistedGray]

And we're off to the races!

 

[brewgar]

Curious how you quantified the all grain version was better? And are we talking marginally better or day and night difference?

The differences between the AG and the extract brew of same Irish Red Ale recipe were "clearly noticeable." You know how leftovers from a delicious dish aren't as "tasty" the next day, with tastes and aromas subdued and or muddled in the leftovers? For the entire time these two bottled beers were in my serving pipeline, the extract version was, although good, clearly the "leftover" version. I hope this helps.

 

[Kharnynb]

everyone can and should do what they want.

there's a difference in hopped extract(like your cooper's kits) and extract brewing, but you'll get into that when you want to customize your beers more(or not, whichever)

coopers has their own website, and forums with loads of modification recipies and fun change-ups that could keep you busy for years if you want to.

first tip with coopers and other "prehopped extract" kits, throw away the instructions and look online for advice. don't just add sugar to the kit, but add the matching dry or liquid malt extract.

 

[madscientist451]

by no means am I saying that my Coopers Lager is as good but I'm thoroughly enjoying drinking it...and I have two kids and enough time to do extract kits...

Enjoying drinking it? Enjoying brewing It? Tell the snobs to bugger off! (can we say that on HBT?) Seriously, ask those pushing all grain if you can stop by and try their creations so you can compare to what you are brewing. Bring some of yours along and you can see for yourself if its worth it.
When your kids are grown you'll have way more time for brewing and other hobbies, so do what you can for now and don't worry about it.

 

[cmac62]

You could do that with my extract vs all-grain version of the deception cream stout from the recipes section. The extract version is much better!

That being said, don't let money be whats holding you back from all-grain brewing. I love my setup and its literally:

10 gallon igloo cooler (add ball valve an some washers to make a mash tun)
Homemade immersion chiller (probably $25 total) and I chill 6 gallons to 68F in about 12-15 minutes
10 gallon aluminum stock pot from Amazon
Brew bag (for cooler mash tun)

Total: ~$125-150 dollars

Keep in mind that I now can order grain in bulk and only send about $15-25 per batch instead of extract batches that used to be $30-40.

Trog, the only issue I have is with the aluminum pot. I would spring for the SS just to be on the safe side.

I started brewing at my LHBS, with his equipment (except the bucket, capper & bottling equip), but I have had some really good extract beers and I know my taste buds aren't overly fussy. If it is beer (decent at least) I'll drink it. Especially if I made it.

 

[TwistedGray]

Enjoying drinking it? Enjoying brewing It? Tell the snobs to bugger off! (can we say that on HBT?) Seriously, ask those pushing all grain if you can stop by and try their creations so you can compare to what you are brewing. Bring some of yours along and you can see for yourself if its worth it.

That's what we have the FotHB thread for Homebrew trading

 

[troglodytes]

Trog, the only issue I have is with the aluminum pot. I would spring for the SS just to be on the safe side.

I hear you and many people are split on the ss vs aluminum. But I'll tell you I have done over 30 batches in this kettle and the only thing I could ever have a complaint about is the fact that when brewing outdoors in the winter it takes more to get to boiling (due to heat exchange).

Its been pretty well established there is no danger as long as you get that nice oxidized coating, and at this point, my kettle very well oxidized.

That said, I would definitely go with ss if I had the budget, but I anyways seem to find a new addition to get/make for my brew house before splurging on a new kettle, while my current one is still going like a champ.

 

[Justin Archer]

And we're off to the races!

View attachment 560354

I think we shopped the same sale. I only have the Belgian left, though. That Swig of Sunbeams is great, dude! A lot of positive from my buddies. And I can’t stop drinking them. The stout is in the bottles for a week today and I couldn’t wait so tried one last night. Coming along very nicely. I am getting a lot of coffee up front with a nice semi sweet chocolate finish.

Edit: just realize you had a different Belgian than me. I have a relaxed brain.

 

[TwistedGray]

View attachment 560364

I think we shopped the same sale. I only have the Belgian left, though. That Swig of Sunbeams is great, dude! A lot of positive from my buddies. And I can’t stop drinking them. The stout is in the bottles for a week today and I couldn’t wait so tried one last night. Coming along very nicely. I am getting a lot of coffee up front with a nice semi sweet chocolate finish.

That's alarmingly scary!

With that said I also have another IPA, pale ale, and enough stuff to make a few sours, too.

 

[Justin Archer]

That's alarmingly scary!

With that said I also have another IPA, pale ale, and enough stuff to make a few sours, too.

I’ve been wanting to do a saison soon.

 

[LittleRiver]

... I have two kids and enough time to do extract kits...where I would not have the time to do all grain...so my question is why does everyone that brews constantly push all grain???? Or you're a cheater if your extract brewing...

I agree with everyone else, brew the way that makes YOU happy. There is nothing wrong with extract brewing.

I think you're over estimating the time it will take you to brew all grain. It can be very comparable to the time required for extract brewing.

One thing not mentioned yet in this discussion is that all grain brewing is fun. I think you would really like it.

All grain gives you complete control over your recipe and the final taste of your beer. You do have some control with extract, but not to the same level that you have with all grain. Making an analogy to cooking, it's like the difference between buying a piece of meat that is packaged pre-seasoned ready-to-cook, vs selecting a fresh cut of meat and seasoning and preparing it your way. There is a satisfaction in learning the craft of it, as well as a satisfaction in the final product.

All grain brewing does not have to be expensive, complicated, or time consuming. You do not need an expensive or complicated rig to brew all grain.

Read up on BIAB (brew in a bag). It is an elegantly simple, inexpensive, and fun way to do all grain brewing. My last BIAB brew day was 4hrs start to finish (everything cleaned up). I didn't take any shortcuts, I did a one hour full volume mash, a one hour boil, and I milled my own grains.

Some folks are successful in doing shorter mashes and boils, but I don't feel the need to do that. While the mash water is heating up I grind my grains, weigh my hops, and get organized. During the mash I do other things (yard work, go run errands, etc). During the boil I get the fermenter cleaned up and sanitized, get my chiller ready, etc.

If you like extract brewing you will probably like all grain brewing even more. It's fun.

 

[TGFV]

Coopers kits can keep you busy and entertained for batches forever, while your own extract recipes can lower costs significantly for a few more minutes time.

I use coopers kits for roughly 75% of my beers because the kits are 15$ where I live and all I need is 3-4$ in specialty grains or fruit, a kilo of either Pilsen or light DME and yeast slurries I have been saving for generations (unless doing a new style). There are so many styles and innovations to do with them that you can have 4-5 planned recipes that you end up ignoring the last few because even more have caught your eye. You can also easily branch into grafs and braggots with no problems.

The only shortcoming I find is doing sours and low ibu saisons, for those I always do scratch extract recipes.

 

[TwistedGray]

Making an analogy to cooking, it's like the difference between buying a piece of meat that is packaged pre-seasoned ready-to-cook, vs selecting a fresh cut of meat and seasoning and preparing it your way. There is a satisfaction in learning the craft of it, as well as a satisfaction in the final product.

I disagree with your analogy because even an extract brewer can build his own recipes. I think if I were to make an analogy to meat it would be more like, "Extract brewing is like buying a sirloin steak whereas all grain brewing is like buying a cow."

 

[C.N. Brewer]

I say brew what you like, I started with ingredients kits and have been working on making my own recipes recently. I love extract brewing, it’s a lot of fun. Home brewing is an awesome hobby, and you can do it anyway you like.

 

[TwistedGray]

I say brew what you like, I started with ingredients kits and have been working on making my own recipes recently. I love extract brewing, it’s a lot of fun. Home brewing is an awesome hobby, and you can do it anyway you like.

Agreed

There's nothing preventing an exact brewer from making amazing beers

 

[VTX1300]

I have had awesome extract beer and some all grain that were just awful. All depends upon the details. I do all grain because i enjoy the challenge of mastering the entire process from grain to glass. Like all have said here, do what works for you and enjoy they hobby.

 

[Mismost]

They just put in a craft brew pub here in town. I stopped by and tried a flight of their beers. A friend was there and told the guy I made good beers and wines. Owner wanted to sample them, so I took a few up there. He loved them and offered me a job! I didn't need a job. When we started talking about HOW i made it....extract with a bit of grains, mini mash extract style. He said that wasn't real brewing. I said really? You loved it just a minute ago. It's an attitude...my way or the highway.

My brew day takes about hour on day one, 20 minutes on day two, and then however long I wish to ferment, clear before bottling. I do not have a entire day to spend watch crap boil in a pot and hoping I get just the right amount of efficiency. I break about every rule in the book and still make beer that folks like to drink. Extract is easy, I like easy.

 

[troglodytes]

On one hand, its kind of a jerk move saying its not real brewing..because it is. But on the other hand, if he runs a business I'm sure there are various reasons (batch cost, control of wort fermentability, final SRM in light beers) why they can't brew extract brews, so if you did get a job as a brewer there you'd have to learn their system. But lets be honest, if any of us homebrewers got a job as a pro brewer, we would have to go through the same learning curve.

 

[Jako]

one of the guys at my LHBS let me try a extract beer he just made... i was the best beer i think i have ever had. it was a double IPA with all the hops added in at flame out then a tonnnnnn of cryo hops in the dry hop. it was also fermented with a wine yeast i forget the strain but it was amazing.

 

[NGD]

They just put in a craft brew pub here in town. I stopped by and tried a flight of their beers. A friend was there and told the guy I made good beers and wines. Owner wanted to sample them, so I took a few up there. He loved them and offered me a job! I didn't need a job. When we started talking about HOW i made it....extract with a bit of grains, mini mash extract style. He said that wasn't real brewing. I said really? You loved it just a minute ago. It's an attitude...my way or the highway.

My brew day takes about hour on day one, 20 minutes on day two, and then however long I wish to ferment, clear before bottling. I do not have a entire day to spend watch crap boil in a pot and hoping I get just the right amount of efficiency. I break about every rule in the book and still make beer that folks like to drink. Extract is easy, I like easy.

Real question is, how were his beers?

I’m jealous that you can wrap up your brewing process in an hour. Still takes me 2.5-3hrs to get from fill up to pitching. Still I enjoy the process and the results.

 

[Randomnoob]

So I'm brand new to brewing I 've done a total of 2 batches 1 I've been drinking (coopers Lager) and turned out great!!! The other (Coopers Real Ale) is still in the FV. But the couple people I know that brew are already asking or telling me you need to do all grain...now I've had all grain brews and by no means am I saying that my Coopers Lager is as good but I'm thoroughly enjoying drinking it...and I have two kids and enough time to do extract kits...where I would not have the time to do all grain...so my question is why does everyone that brews constantly push all grain???? Or you're a cheater if your extract brewing...

I like doing my all grain brews, but right now I have a new baby at home and homebrewing time is very short so I stick to doing extract recipes. I do have a few all grains planned ahead in the year to come but otherwise, I'm working on converting my favorite recipes to extracts. Not a big deal and they still make tasty beers. The only thing I don't like about extract beers is the price. All-Grain is cheaper.

 

[troglodytes]

I like doing my all grain brews, but right now I have a new baby at home and homebrewing time is very short so I stick to doing extract recipes. I do have a few all grains planned ahead in the year to come but otherwise, I'm working on converting my favorite recipes to extracts. Not a big deal and they still make tasty beers. The only thing I don't like about extract beers is the price. All-Grain is cheaper.

Our daughter is now 1 year old and on a regular sleep schedule, so guess who now has 8PM to 7AM free. I do my brewing at night and its aprice I'm will to pay timewise because its saves me cost over extract and I generally tend to do a 80% of my beers as very dry finishers, saisons, dry pale ales, etc. So I mash really low and usually finish at and FG of 1.004 to 1.012. I've had problems getting extract brews to finish lower 6 to 8 points higher than that, which sucks when your brewing a saison you want to finish as close to 1.000 as possible.