What the hell did I do to deserve this head?

[Agate]

The temp it is asking for is the highest temp it hit during ferment? I would think that would be the temp it is currently at or the temp the bottles will be stored at since that temp is going to affect how the sugar dissolves.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

It's the current temp of the beer. This tells you how much carbon dioxide is already dissolved in it.

 

[ram5ey]

I'd drink it all fast if you like it and then save a couple bottles to see if they totally dries out and become gushers....

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Between this thread and the 'Where can I find a good rack?' thread, you guys are killing me with these titles.

Exactly! I was going to respond "We never ask that, we just lean back and let her take it all in."

 

[RmikeVT]

I think, either you guys are totally missing whats going on here, or I must be missing something. OP doesn't have an infection! He said his beer tastes fine! The OP is using way too much priming sugar for most beer styles. Those kits come with too much priming sugar than is needed for most styles. My BeerSmith carbonation tool says to get to 2.5 vols of CO2 in 5g of beer (most american ales are close to this), at 38F takes 2.63oz of corn sugar. Compounded on the fact that he used a 5g kit which never yields 5g of end product.

It has been a while since I've bottled, but 4oz of corn sugar is way too much for most ales. If you are looking for a 2.5 vols of carbonation, as for most american ales, 2.6oz of corn sugar will do the trick. I made a Belgian Dubbel and used 4oz in 5 gals and think I over carbed a little bit for the style, which is a highly carbed style.

 

[Yooper]

The temp it is asking for is the highest temp it hit during ferment? I would think that would be the temp it is currently at or the temp the bottles will be stored at since that temp is going to affect how the sugar dissolves.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Correct. The current temperature doesn't matter, as the calculators (which I hate, by the way) try to guestimate the probable amount of c02 in the beer after fermention.

As an example, say you fermented a lager at 52, then did a diacetyl rest at 65, and when the beer was finished you lagered it at 34 degrees for weeks. You would use the temperature of '65', since that temperature is the highest that the beer reached. If you use the calculator, you can see that by using '34 degrees', the beer would be severely undercarbed.

I generally use .75 oz- 1 oz of corn sugar per finished gallon of beer, with great results and don't mess with the silly priming calculators that would have you have flat beer if it's a stout (1.5 volumes, I think?) or bottle bombs if it's a weizen (4+ volumes). Most people who buy bottled commercial beer generally expect a c02 volume of 2.4-2.6 volumes, or thereabouts, for all beer styles.

 

[Yooper]

I think either you guys are totally missing whats going on here or I must be missing something. OP doesn't have an infection! The OP is using way too much priming sugar for most beer styles. My BeerSmith carbonation tool says to get to 2.5 vols of CO2 (most american ales are close to this), at 38F takes 2.63oz of priming sugar.

It has been a while since I've bottled, but 4oz of corn sugar is way too much for most ales. If you are looking for a 2.5 vols of carbonation, as for most american ales, 2.6oz of corn sugar will do the trick. I made a Belgian Dubbel and used 4oz in 5 gals and think I over carbed a little bit for the style, which is a highly carbed style.

I always use 4-5 oz corn sugar for 5 gallons of beer; 4 oz for my oatmeal stout, and 5 oz for my German lagers and all of my American ales. 2.6 ounces would be terribly undercarbed for a 5 gallon batch.

You don't use 38 degrees for the temperature- use 68 degrees for most ales.

 

[peterj]

It's the current temp of the beer. This tells you how much carbon dioxide is already dissolved in it.

Yooper is correct (as usual!). It's the highest temperature the beer reached during fermentation. This tells you how much carbon dioxide is already dissolved in it.

I think either you guys are totally missing whats going on here or I must be missing something. OP doesn't have an infection! The OP is using way too much priming sugar for most beer styles. My BeerSmith carbonation tool says to get to 2.5 vols of CO2 (most american ales are close to this), at 38F takes 2.63oz of priming sugar.

It has been a while since I've bottled, but 4oz of corn sugar is way too much for most ales. If you are looking for a 2.5 vols of carbonation, as for most american ales, 2.6oz of corn sugar will do the trick. I made a Belgian Dubbel and used 4oz in 5 gals and think I over carbed a little bit for the style, which is a highly carbed style.

4 oz of corn sugar is pretty perfect for getting 2.5 volumes in 4.25 gallons of beer if it was around 68 degrees.

 

[Agate]

Yooper is correct (as usual!). It's the highest temperature the beer reached during fermentation. This tells you how much carbon dioxide is already dissolved in it.







4 oz of corn sugar is pretty perfect for getting 2.5 volumes in 4.25 gallons of beer if it was around 68 degrees.

For the sake of discussion, if temperature drops before fermentation is complete, will the capacity of the beer to absorb CO2 not increase and the beer have more dissolved than indicated by the highest temperature? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm genuinely interested in your views, but it makes sense to me that it would only work if the highest temp was right at the end of fermentation.

I've had lots of temperature spikes during fermentation, so I think it's kind of an important disclaimer. Unless, of course, that I'm totally wrong!

 

[Flipadelphia]

Between this thread and the 'Where can I find a good rack?' thread, you guys are killing me with these titles.

10 posts to turn it into something sexual. I had set the over under to 6.5. Go HBT!

 

[Flipadelphia]

Exactly! I was going to respond "We never ask that, we just lean back and let her take it all in."

so funny dude

 

[Yooper]

No. The co2 is not being absorbed more suddenly.
Like I said, I hate those calculators so I am mot advocating it, as I think they cause all sorts of issues but if you are going to use one, at least understand the data set it uses.

 

[mmlipps]

Chill it then pour into glass held at a 30 degree angle, real slow. Minimal head, great bitter.

I have to say, this is a little insulting.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[mmlipps]

This thread is filled with a lot of great insight, thanks everyone. I'm currently trying the patience method and letting it chill in the fridge for about 4 days. Thanks everyone for all the advice so far!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[peterj]

For the sake of discussion, if temperature drops before fermentation is complete, will the capacity of the beer to absorb CO2 not increase and the beer have more dissolved than indicated by the highest temperature? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm genuinely interested in your views, but it makes sense to me that it would only work if the highest temp was right at the end of fermentation.

I've had lots of temperature spikes during fermentation, so I think it's kind of an important disclaimer. Unless, of course, that I'm totally wrong!

When the temperature of the beer drops the capacity to absorb CO2 will go up, but there needs to be a source for the CO2. The yeast is only creating large amounts of CO2 during the first vigorous part of fermentation. So I guess it would be your highest temp after the initial vigorous fermentation.

Hopefully you won't have a large temperature spike during the initial fermentation because that will open a whole other can of worms. It's good practice though to start fermentation at a lower temperature and bring it up towards the end to help the yeast fully attenuate.

And I think the main thing we are warning against is if you cold crash the beer, you would not use the current refrigerated temperature for your priming calculator.

I have to say, this is a little insulting.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Haha yeah, not sure why he's telling you how to pour a beer. Also not sure what "great bitter" means?

 

[Agate]

Hey peterj, totally agree with you on cold crashing, nothing to debate there. I get your point and completely agree with it. Cheers!

 

[RmikeVT]

Thanks Yooper. I've been out of the bottling game too long.

 

[Hello]

It doesn't have to be a gusher infection to do that. He only chilled it for about 12 hours. Bottled beers on average need to chill 5-7 days to get proper carbonation-getting the co2 compressed in the headspace- into solution. not to mention, giving any chill haze a chance to form & settle, which takes at least 3-5 days or more.

I've seen you write this before and I've asked this before…I'll ask again. Where did you read this? 24-48 is what I've read repeatedly. I've noticed zero difference if the bottle sat for 48 hours at 36F or 7 days at the same temp.

 

[user 141939]

Sorry about all the head.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[cheezydemon3]

I've had the same thing happen to most of my brews, except it's always after the bottles have sat in the basement for several months. My Belgian dark strong ale is borderline useless after 5 months, as soon as I open a chilled bottle it starts foaming vigorously and all runs out into the sink..?
(quick fix: I drink them all before 2 months!)

Mine are 3 weeks



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

INFECTION...

Tasteless odorless GUSHER.

Sanitize EVERYTHING.

 

[unionrdr]

I've seen you write this before and I've asked this before…I'll ask again. Where did you read this? 24-48 is what I've read repeatedly. I've noticed zero difference if the bottle sat for 48 hours at 36F or 7 days at the same temp.

I didn't read it. Like I said, it's from personal experience. My beer's carbonation & head lasts longer after being in the fridge for 5-7 days @ about 42-45F.

 

[troy2000]

So this might be a stupid question, but why do commercial beers whether they be big beer companies or craft only need to be chilled to drinking temp even quick chilled in a freezer and drank immediately?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Because they've previously been chilled long enough to absorb the CO2 into solution - or whatever the appropriate chemical term is. Once my homebrews have been chilled for two or three days, I can store them at room temp and throw them in an ice chest when I'm thirsty.

 

[troy2000]

I think, either you guys are totally missing whats going on here, or I must be missing something. OP doesn't have an infection! He said his beer tastes fine! The OP is using way too much priming sugar for most beer styles. Those kits come with too much priming sugar than is needed for most styles. My BeerSmith carbonation tool says to get to 2.5 vols of CO2 in 5g of beer (most american ales are close to this), at 38F takes 2.63oz of corn sugar. Compounded on the fact that he used a 5g kit which never yields 5g of end product.

It has been a while since I've bottled, but 4oz of corn sugar is way too much for most ales. If you are looking for a 2.5 vols of carbonation, as for most american ales, 2.6oz of corn sugar will do the trick. I made a Belgian Dubbel and used 4oz in 5 gals and think I over carbed a little bit for the style, which is a highly carbed style.

Not necessarily. I prime my saisons with four or five ounces of cane sugar for five-gal batches, although I usually turn it into simple syrup first.

 

[user 141939]

Because they've previously been chilled long enough to absorb the CO2 into solution - or whatever the appropriate chemical term is. Once my homebrews have been chilled for two or three days, I can store them at room temp and throw them in an ice chest when I'm thirsty.

So chilling a beer from room temp puts more CO2 into the beer, but when you move it back to room temp, the CO2 stays in the beer? That doesn't make any sense to me. Honestly I think time will do the same thing. I never chill all 50 bottles of a batch of beer. Some just remain at room temp. After a couple of months I can't tell the difference between one thats been in the fridge for a month, or one I just put in (for the first time) for a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[peterj]

Because they've previously been chilled long enough to absorb the CO2 into solution - or whatever the appropriate chemical term is. Once my homebrews have been chilled for two or three days, I can store them at room temp and throw them in an ice chest when I'm thirsty.

So chilling a beer from room temp puts more CO2 into the beer, but when you move it back to room temp, the CO2 stays in the beer? That doesn't make any sense to me. Honestly I think time will do the same thing. I never chill all 50 bottles of a batch of beer. Some just remain at room temp. After a couple of months I can't tell the difference between one thats been in the fridge for a month, or one I just put in (for the first time) for a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

You're correct, that's not how it works. The CO2 isn't all in the headspace and needing to be absorbed into the beer. As I said earlier:

The CO2 is already in solution because the whole system is closed and under pressure. The only thing that chilling for a week or so before you open one will do is settle out particulates that could act as nucleation sites for the CO2, but I've never found that to be a big enough problem to cause beers to gush.

When I try my bottled beers I almost always only refrigerate them overnight and often for shorter times. A lot of times I'll put them in the freezer for 45 minutes or so and open them straight away. There is no difference in carbonation level between one that I quick chill and one that I leave in the fridge for a week.

And yeah, time will settle out those particles. It just happens faster in the fridge.

 

[jbaysurfer]

So chilling a beer from room temp puts more CO2 into the beer, but when you move it back to room temp, the CO2 stays in the beer? That doesn't make any sense to me. Honestly I think time will do the same thing. I never chill all 50 bottles of a batch of beer. Some just remain at room temp. After a couple of months I can't tell the difference between one thats been in the fridge for a month, or one I just put in (for the first time) for a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

There's a lot of misunderstanding about how C02 gets into beer and the temperatures at which Co2 is retained in beer vs. the headspace. The C02 by itself in one bottle of beer, at 0PSI pressure would fill almost 3 empty bottles of beer. The liquid absorbs much of this headspace Co2 in a chilled environment and retains it unless heated and (broadly speaking) agitated. If you prime at room temp you have roughly 1 volume of C02 that remains in the solution. In a closed environment, it means there's a much higher volume of Co2 in the headspace. Enter chilling. Chilled beer absorbs C02 much more readily and the C02 balances out between the headspace and the liquid. If you've primed it correctly and are shooting for 2.5 volumes, that's what you'll get once it all balances out. If you take it out of the fridge, SOME of that C02 in solution DOES release back into the headspace, but not all of it. It remains somewhat balanced and when you flash chill it (say for a couple of hours on ice) you generally have a beer with C02 volumes that you expected.

https://byo.com/stories/item/1132-master-the-action-carbonation

Edit: I realize this is at odds with what Peter says above, read the article I supplied and others to feel good about your understanding of the process and then you can decide for yourself what works for you. What I've experienced and read jives with what I'm explaining here, although in the era of pedanticism on the internet, I'm certain there are parts of my posts that can proven technically incorrect.

Here's an experiment that address the solubility of C02 in beer at different temperatures:
https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/eurj/files/2014/05/CO2Paper_Final.pdf

 

[Hello]

I didn't read it. Like I said, it's from personal experience. My beer's carbonation & head lasts longer after being in the fridge for 5-7 days @ about 42-45F.

I've noticed no difference but you've written it as though it is fact and that it must be done so I was thinking you read it somewhere.

Excessive foaming without infection is usually a priming sugar issue in my experience. I've done it before a couple of times.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, it can be priming or infections or just none refrigerated. But with mine, they have little or no carbonation till I chill'em for 5-7 days for an average gravity beer.

 

[peterj]

There's a lot of misunderstanding about how C02 gets into beer and the temperatures at which Co2 is retained in beer vs. the headspace. The C02 by itself in one bottle of beer, at 0PSI pressure would fill almost 3 empty bottles of beer. The liquid absorbs much of this headspace Co2 in a chilled environment and retains it unless heated and (broadly speaking) agitated. If you prime at room temp you have roughly 1 volume of C02 that remains in the solution. In a closed environment, it means there's a much higher volume of Co2 in the headspace. Enter chilling. Chilled beer absorbs C02 much more readily and the C02 balances out between the headspace and the liquid. If you've primed it correctly and are shooting for 2.5 volumes, that's what you'll get once it all balances out. If you take it out of the fridge, SOME of that C02 in solution DOES release back into the headspace, but not all of it. It remains somewhat balanced and when you flash chill it (say for a couple of hours on ice) you generally have a beer with C02 volumes that you expected.

https://byo.com/stories/item/1132-master-the-action-carbonation

Edit: I realize this is at odds with what Peter says above, read the article I supplied and others to feel good about your understanding of the process and then you can decide for yourself what works for you. What I've experienced and read jives with what I'm explaining here, although in the era of pedanticism on the internet, I'm certain there are parts of my posts that can proven technically incorrect.

Here's an experiment that address the solubility of C02 in beer at different temperatures:
https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/eurj/files/2014/05/CO2Paper_Final.pdf

This is incorrect. The solubility of gas in a liquid is dependent on temperature and pressure. You are ignoring the pressure component above. Lower temperatures allow more CO2 to be dissolved, but higher pressures also allow more CO2 to be dissolved (this is why you can carbonate a keg at room temperature by simply increasing the pressure). When the yeast consume the priming sugar, all of the CO2 that is going to be in the beer is in the closed system of the bottle. This puts the beer at a high pressure, allowing it to have 2.5 volumes of CO2 dissolved in it at room temperature. When you chill it down, the decrease in temperature makes the beer want to release CO2. But as soon as it releases CO2 into the headspace, the pressure in the system increases causing the beer to be able to hold more CO2. It's at equilibrium. So the beer contains the same amount of dissolved CO2 no matter what temperature it's at.

Based on your reasoning you're saying there is 1.5 volumes of CO2 in the headspace when the beer is at room temperature. Assuming about 1 oz of headspace that would mean that 18 oz of CO2 are compressed into a 1 oz space. This would require the headspace to be at about 265 psi, which is of course impossible.

If you want a real world example of this, just open a beer at room temperature. It will absolutely not be at 1 volume of CO2 carbonation.

 

[user 141939]

There's a lot of misunderstanding about how C02 gets into beer and the temperatures at which Co2 is retained in beer vs. the headspace. The C02 by itself in one bottle of beer, at 0PSI pressure would fill almost 3 empty bottles of beer. The liquid absorbs much of this headspace Co2 in a chilled environment and retains it unless heated and (broadly speaking) agitated. If you prime at room temp you have roughly 1 volume of C02 that remains in the solution. In a closed environment, it means there's a much higher volume of Co2 in the headspace. Enter chilling. Chilled beer absorbs C02 much more readily and the C02 balances out between the headspace and the liquid. If you've primed it correctly and are shooting for 2.5 volumes, that's what you'll get once it all balances out. If you take it out of the fridge, SOME of that C02 in solution DOES release back into the headspace, but not all of it. It remains somewhat balanced and when you flash chill it (say for a couple of hours on ice) you generally have a beer with C02 volumes that you expected.

https://byo.com/stories/item/1132-master-the-action-carbonation

Edit: I realize this is at odds with what Peter says above, read the article I supplied and others to feel good about your understanding of the process and then you can decide for yourself what works for you. What I've experienced and read jives with what I'm explaining here, although in the era of pedanticism on the internet, I'm certain there are parts of my posts that can proven technically incorrect.

Here's an experiment that address the solubility of C02 in beer at different temperatures:
https://scholarblogs.emory.edu/eurj/files/2014/05/CO2Paper_Final.pdf

I'm already familiar with all the points in the article. I understand the relationship between dissolved CO2, temperature, and pressure. The part of your post that deals with what I said ...

"The liquid absorbs much of this headspace CO2 in a chilled environment and retains it unless heated and (broadly speaking) agitated."

My point was, I don't believe that once you cool a beer once that the extra CO2 that goes into solution magically stays their even if the beer is brought back to room temp. Since you said it retains it unless heated, I guess you agree with me.

That experiment is terribly BTW.

 

[troy2000]

So chilling a beer from room temp puts more CO2 into the beer, but when you move it back to room temp, the CO2 stays in the beer? That doesn't make any sense to me. Honestly I think time will do the same thing. I never chill all 50 bottles of a batch of beer. Some just remain at room temp. After a couple of months I can't tell the difference between one thats been in the fridge for a month, or one I just put in (for the first time) for a day.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I'm not a scientist or a master brewer; maybe I'm all wet on why or how it makes a difference. But I know what my personal experience has been. I've run out of homebrew that's been in my fridge for two or three days and dipped into the ones I started chilling for the first time the night before, and gotten noticeably more foam when I poured them.

Of course I don't store homebrew for months, either; it never lasts that long. Maybe that makes a difference....