What temp is correct to sparge?

[Denny]

Ph does have something to do with it, but temperature does as well. I found this after a 2 second google search, I'm trying to avoid a pissing contest.

Article states Ph has something to do with it, but read on to find:
"Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F."

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1...me--reducing-tannins-but-not-flavor-mr-wizard

Well, there's what you read, and there's what you experience. And as pointed out above, if it was about temp, decoction mashes couldn't be done.

 

[TyTanium]

I'd always read not to worry about tannins when batch sparging. Then I had tannins. Turns out that water alkalinity does matter. Since adjusting pH, no more tannins, even at very high temps.

 

[Denny]

I'd always read not to worry about tannins when batch sparging. Then I had tannins. Turns out that water alkalinity does matter. Since adjusting pH, no more tannins, even at very high temps.

So many people take that the wrong way. You certainly do have to make sure the mash pH is correct. Then it is unlikely the pH will rise during the batch sparge, as long as your water isn't extreme. If you have really alkaline water, you do need to be careful, even with batch sparging.

 

[TyTanium]

Yup, exactly. I even did all the adjustments for the mash, and figured I was fine for sparge. Then got tannins on some super pale beers and was confused. 1mL phosphoric acid to sparge water and no more tannins. And I have only moderately alkaline water.

 

[Denny]

Yup, exactly. I even did all the adjustments for the mash, and figured I was fine for sparge. Then got tannins on some super pale beers and was confused. 1mL phosphoric acid to sparge water and no more tannins. And I have only moderately alkaline water.

Wow, that's a surprisingly small amount to make such a difference! Glad ya got it sussed.

 

[TyTanium]

Wow, that's a surprisingly small amount to make such a difference! Glad ya got it sussed.

Yeah, that's what I thought too. My variables aren't controlled enough for it to be anything more than anecdotal/experiential, but tannins are gone and that's good enough for me.

 

[Denny]

Yeah, that's what I thought too. My variables aren't controlled enough for it to be anything more than anecdotal/experiential, but tannins are gone and that's good enough for me.

yeah, man!

 

[TheSmithsEra]

. . so if i batch sparge with 185 degree water that has had 5.2 PH stabilizer added I should be fine?!

 

[Jipper]

Not too certain which pH the tannin extraction starts to escalate at, but certainly interested in that information. I use 5.2 in my mash and HLT so not a huge concern, but still interested to find out.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you don't mash out to 168-169, but you sparge with 170-185, you'll be raising the mash temperature up and essentially mashing at a higher temperature for the duration of your sparge.

Example: Mash at 150°F, don't mash out, sparge at 180°F. That temperature will find a happy medium around 160-165° and you'll be around that temp for 20-60 minutes depending on how fast you sparge and what size batch you're brewing. Just something to consider!

 

[Yooper]

. . so if i batch sparge with 185 degree water that has had 5.2 PH stabilizer added I should be fine?!

No, not necessarily. Remember that the 5.2 stabilizer doesn't really work to lock in a mash pH anyway (check out our brewing science area for more on why that is).

If you have alkaline water, as I do, the sparge pH easily can go above 6, with or without the 5.2 stabilizer. I normally sparge with RO water now, or use acid (like phosphoric or lactic) to reduce the alkalinity of the sparge water.

Bru'n water is a nice water spreadsheet that has a sparge worksheet for keeping your sparge pH under 6 to avoid risking tannin extraction.

 

[Denny]

. . so if i batch sparge with 185 degree water that has had 5.2 PH stabilizer added I should be fine?!

If you batch sparge like that without 5.2 you should be fine. I wouldn't get that stuff anywhere near my beer.

 

[TheSmithsEra]

No, not necessarily. Remember that the 5.2 stabilizer doesn't really work to lock in a mash pH anyway (check out our brewing science area for more on why that is).

If you have alkaline water, as I do, the sparge pH easily can go above 6, with or without the 5.2 stabilizer. I normally sparge with RO water now, or use acid (like phosphoric or lactic) to reduce the alkalinity of the sparge water.

Bru'n water is a nice water spreadsheet that has a sparge worksheet for keeping your sparge pH under 6 to avoid risking tannin extraction.

Well i use arrowhead spring water and I also do a lot of mini mashes, but have been doing some small all grain batches.

I mash about 5.5 pounds total and I strongly believe my beers taste better when i get my full kettle volume ( partial boil) through infusion and batch sparge instead of following kit instructions and mashing 3 pounds and rinsing with a few qts.

So does this really only matter when i do the small all grain batches or even in the partial mash . . i've been trying to edge my way into understanding water

If you batch sparge like that without 5.2 you should be fine. I wouldn't get that stuff anywhere near my beer.

Done. My next pale ale, i'm, sparging my mini mash with 180 degree water and see how it goes

 

[Bobby_M]

One thing to consider is that if adding 185F batch sparge water were a big problem for tannin extraction, then adding boiling water to mash out (that is, getting the whole mash up to 168F) would be the worst offender wouldn't it? Of course. Even if your pH were in the danger zone (IIRC that's over 5.8), the fact remains that you're still keeping your equalized temp below 170F once you've stirred it for a minute. Knowing your water and monitoring mash temps is certainly level 10 beer geekery, but once you're there you can likely sparge with very hot water, even boiling without problems. I don't recommend doing it without a pH meter.

 

[AnOldUR]

No direct experience, but what about RIMS. You're drawing the thin enzyme rich wort through the tube. Do the temperatures in the tube exceed 170 degrees while trying to do temperature steps? Lot of brewers making great beer with these systems without tannins or killing off the enzymes. If short term temperatures spikes were an issue this wouldn't be the case.

 

[eltorrente]

People are overthinking it, really. First of all mashout at 168 is often the goal, however it's generally not possible when using infusion/coolers. Therefore, simply raising the temp during sparge to as close to 168 should be the goal. It's not necessarily that you want to "mash out" - it's just that you want to ensure that you get every last bit of conversion that you can. 95% of conversion will be done by the point of sparging, anyway.

I like to use 180deg water, and I fly sparge. Slowly adding in 180deg water into a mash that was at 150-155 or whatever, will not increase the mash temp to over 170- not even close! There is no real risk of tannin extraction at these temps. All it's going to do is increase your efficiency a little bit by using 180 instead of 170, but even then it's not really that much.

If you're batch sparging and add 180 to a 155 mash, you aren't going to increase your mash temp much more than the low 160's.

It's a lot harder to increase the temp of the mash than to decrease it, since it's already so hot to start with. Using 180-185 is a great temp for sparging. If you use 170, then whatever - not much of a difference. Either way you aren't going to increase your mash to 168 or 170 and risk tannin extraction.

 

[TheSmithsEra]

I love this website. I'm totally going with this method and see how that does for me... even if its mini mash