What is Fresh?

[LostHopper]

It is a standard recommendation to drink hop-forward beers as fresh as possible. I'm guessing that most home brewers are already drinking fresher beer than folks buying commercial beer off the shelf.

When using reasonable brewing techniques that minimize oxygen exposure (purged kegs, closed transfer, etc) how long do you consider a kegged beer to be considered "Fresh"?
2 weeks?
4 weeks?
8 weeks?
Is it a shorter time for NEIPAs vs a traditional West Coast pale ale or IPA?
What about a hoppy lager?

 

[lumpher]

That's a very loaded question. It definitely depends on the type of beer. A hefeweizen is "fresh" and ready to drink as soon as it finishes fermenting and gets chilled and carbed. A fresh lager is weeks down the road, since it still needs lagering first. Flavors melding, removing diacetyl, clearing, etc, all come into play when considering "fresh and ready to drink".

 

[day_trippr]

Not sure how to define it but I know if it I taste it, so I'd say if a beer "tastes fresh", it's fresh

Cheers!

 

[fluketamer]

i drink my beers too fresh (green)

but i would say its safe to say that the hoppyier the beer the fresher you should drink it cause hop flavor and aroma degrade over time especially in the presence of oxygen. likely very minute amounts of oxygen

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

When using reasonable brewing techniques that minimize oxygen exposure (purged kegs, closed transfer, etc) how long do you consider a kegged beer to be considered "Fresh"?
2 weeks?
4 weeks?
8 weeks?
Is it a shorter time for NEIPAs vs a traditional West Coast pale ale or IPA?
What about a hoppy lager?

For bottled craft ales, shelf life (based on 'best buy' dates on packaging) seems to be

• hazies: 3 months
• APAs/IPAs: 6 months
• others: 12 months

Personally, if the bottles are stored warm in the store, I cut those numbers in half. Storing cold (40F) after packaging probably doubles shelf life.

Anecdotal stories from those who keg hazies suggest that a six month shelf life may be possible (not sure if those kegs were stored cold or not).

 

[kevin58]

Traditionally beer that was fresh was called "mild". That is what the word mild originally meant in the beer world. It wasn't a style. Mild was used to distinguish itself from aged or "stale beer. Stale being another old beer term that has changed meaning in our world. Stale beer had aged enough for the Brettanomyces characteristics to become prevalent. Knowing this I would say that fresh beer today is any age at which the original characteristics are still present. For example, when those wonderful hop flavors or notes that it had when first served are no longer there then it would no longer be fresh.

 

[beersk]

I agree with previous comments though I would amend @lumpher's comment about fresh lagers. A fresh lager would be a kellerbier. Otherwise, you really don't drink lagers fresh as they require extended ageing time to clear and round out. Same with something like barleywine or imperial stouts, etc. Though, there is a tipping point to where the beer becomes stale. So you have fresh, ready-to-drink, then stale. In my opinion.

Also agree with @BrewnWKopperKat about keeping beer warm on the shelves. This happens all too often and I really shy away from beer stored that way. Case in point - I recently bought a 4 pack of Paulaner Munich lager at John's Grocery (the world famous Dirty John's) here in Iowa City and, for whatever ******* reason, they keep all their imported beer warm on the shelves and it just annoys me to no end. But, I still buy beer there anyway... And the first can I had was stale and it was maybe 6 or 8 months old. I might be done buying beer warm off the shelves there. They've got a big cooler, but it's basically to house all their American beers.

 

[T Murph]

IME my beers don't stand a chance of becoming UNfresh. With my beer hounds I can't keep a beer long enough for the next batch to become ready to drink. Case in point, I am totally out of beer except a Marzen that is lagering untill St Patty's Day. And I brew at least 2 times each month. That said today is brew day. But in all fairness my absence of beer was partially due to accidentally dumping a fermenter full of Stout two weeks ago.

 

[hotbeer]

When they say to drink as fresh as possible, they mean you should drink them as soon as you can if you want the tastes and aroma that is intended to be enjoyed.

Doesn't mean you can't keep them till you get thirsty for one. But it does suggest that the longer the period of time before they are consumed the less of the tastes and aromas you are intended to enjoy will be around.

Doesn't necessarily mean it'll be a bad beer after a certain amount of time goes by. But it won't be the experience the brewer intended you to have.

 

[beersk]

IME my beers don't stand a chance of becoming UNfresh. With my beer hounds I can't keep a beer long enough for the next batch to become ready to drink. Case in point, I am totally out of beer except a Marzen that is lagering untill St Patty's Day. And I brew at least 2 times each month. That said today is brew day. But in all fairness my absence of beer was partially due to accidentally dumping a fermenter full of Stout two weeks ago.

Accidentally???

 

[T Murph]

Accidentally???

I connected the blow off QC to the floating dip tube post. By morning it had blew all of it out through the blow off bottle and all over the wall, counters, storage tubs and floor. Such a waste, it was really tasty going into the fermenter.

 

[Bobby_M]

I drink my hoppy beers just as the dry hop burn begins to fade. If I wait until it's completely gone, the beer will kind of suck by the end of the keg.

 

[beersk]

I connected the blow off QC to the floating dip tube post. By morning it had blew all of it out through the blow off bottle and all over the wall, counters, storage tubs and floor. Such a waste, it was really tasty going into the fermenter.

Oh man, brutal! That sucks.

I drink my hoppy beers just as the dry hop burn begins to fade. If I wait until it's completely gone, the beer will kind of suck by the end of the keg.

Man, you would not have said this 10 years ago. The rise in popularity of NEIPAs have both improved our brewing practices and ruined our perception of hops. So basically our idea of hoppy is now blown way out of proportion as compared to a decade ago. I firmly believe that. I talk to a close homebrewing friend about this and he doesn't agree. He drinks NEIPAs. I do not. Anymore.

 

[T Murph]

Oh man, brutal! That sucks.

Man, you would not have said this 10 years ago. The rise in popularity of NEIPAs have both improved our brewing practices and ruined our perception of hops. So basically our idea of hoppy is now blown way out of proportion as compared to a decade ago. I firmly believe that. I talk to a close homebrewing friend about this and he doesn't agree. He drinks NEIPAs. I do not. Anymore.

I have to agree with you @beersk. Back in my homebrew beginning, 30+ years ago, a hazy over hopped beer was considered a defect. Not to say I don't like hoppy beers, cause I do, I love a good clean IPA. But times and taste buds change. I'm ok with that, but I just don't care for the super hazy highly hopped beers. I can't help but question the brewers intentions in my head.

 

[day_trippr]

"The struggle is real"

 

[beersk]

"The struggle is real"

Do you disagree with me? If so, why? Our idea of hoppy now is WAY different it was a decade ago. Now, if beers aren't borderline hop burned (new term that came with NEIPAs), they aren't hoppy enough.

 

[day_trippr]

I see no point in debating the existence of any beer style, and you will never find me denigrating any brewer over what they choose to brew and enjoy.
I brew "classic" IPAs and I brew hazy IPAs and I enjoy them both. I brew other styles when I feel the urge and enjoy those as well. No big whoop...

Cheers!

 

[beersk]

I see no point in debating the existence of any beer style, and you will never find me denigrating any brewer over what they choose to brew and enjoy.
I brew "classic" IPAs and I brew hazy IPAs and I enjoy them both. I brew other styles when I feel the urge and enjoy those as well. No big whoop...

Cheers!

But that's not what I'm doing HERE. What I'm saying is NEIPAs have changed the way we think about, perceive, and brew ANY hoppy styles.

 

[mac_1103]

What I'm saying is NEIPAs have changed the way we think about, perceive, and brew ANY hoppy styles.

And why do you say that? I haven't changed the way I brew anything and I don't see a lot of craft brewers upping the IBUs on their west coast IPAs because NEIPAs have changed / ruined everything.

 

[day_trippr]

What I'm saying is NEIPAs have changed the way we think about, perceive, and brew ANY hoppy styles.

Ok.

I don't think the existence of NEIPAs actually "changed" anything. It just added a branch to the conceptual tree that is "IPA".
And I brew my bright IPAs using the same recipes as I used almost 20 years ago. I just changed them from the whole cones that I used to grow to bought pellets...

Cheers!

 

[beersk]

And why do you say that? I haven't changed the way I brew anything and I don't see a lot of craft brewers upping the IBUs on their west coast IPAs because NEIPAs have changed / ruined everything.

Maybe it's more of an expectations thing. Now that beers are insanely hop flavor-forward, it's gotten to where many commercial IPAs I have are very much the same way, but just not hazy. The lack of perceived bitterness has carried over. Just my experience. I could be and probably am wrong...Or just thinking about it the wrong way. That's why I brought it up.

 

[mac_1103]

it's gotten to where many commercial IPAs I have are very much the same way, but just not hazy. The lack of perceived bitterness has carried over. Just my experience.

Now I'm not sure I know what you're saying. Is the problem that these commercial non-hazy IPAs are too bitter or not bitter enough?

 

[Bobby_M]

But that's not what I'm doing HERE. What I'm saying is NEIPAs have changed the way we think about, perceive, and brew ANY hoppy styles.

New beer styles change the perception of old ones for some people. That's taste and subjectivity. I like NEIPA and I also like traditional West Coast pale ales and IPA. I keep them in relatively rigid silos, at least as much as I can. I mean, I can't argue that people might now have the attitude that old school IPA doesn't have enough hop flavor and aroma or that they are too bitter. The same people may have always through those IPAs were too bitter and got turned around when they tried hazies.

 

[day_trippr]

I have to wonder where someone was in the early 2000s when the IBU Wars were raging...

Cheers!

 

[madscientist451]

One of the first beers I ever brewed was a Belgian hoppy ale. It was harsh, bitter and I thought I just messed up the recipe. I set it aside and brewed some more. Maybe 6 months later I tried it again and it was one of the best beers I ever had. So “fresh” isn’t always the best…..