what is cask beer?

[hout17]

Here's a great post by @Northern_Brewer in a Boddington's recipe thread on the cask ale.

Edit: fixed

 

[bracconiere]

Here's a great post by @Northern_Brewer in a Boddington's recipe thread on the cask ale.

do i need to make a coment to managment about how your link to whatever post doesn't work after the late night 4/20 'upgrayedd'?

 

[hout17]

do i need to make a coment to managment about how your link to whatever post doesn't work after the late night 4/20 'upgrayedd'?

Having trouble copying links (using the share link option on posts) to HBT threads after the upgrade. I got it fixed though on my original post.

 

[bracconiere]

even if you mess about with nitro, it's just "different".

@GBRbrew maybe brew up an english bitter carb it. then if you keg crack the PRV for a day, close it, let it sit a couple hours to be able to pour, try it out?

 

[GBRbrew]

I think I'll try to brew one and carb in the keg with priming sugar instead of co2 as mentioned above. Then maybe a slight o2 exposure and see how things turn out. Still kind of shooting in the dark as I have never had true cask ale, just the boddingtons as I mentioned before

 

[duncan.brown]

This is slightly off topic but seems the place to ask, I picked up a 4 pack of boddingtons because I've really wanted to try British bitters. The cans had a device in them that was supposed to help mimic cask ale, made the beer flat with a creamy head. Is this a good representation of cask ale or not. Also I really didn't care for it . Wondering if I should try something different.

English bitters do not travel well, even in cans, so Boddington's in cans in the US tastes worse than it does in the UK. And I agree with @hout17 that it's not the same as it used to be, although there may be some "when I were a lad" effect there...

The widget in a Boddington's can was originally invented by Guinness so recreate the head you get from a nitro pour in a canned beer. The beer is carbonated around one volume, similar to cask beer. The can is pressurized by the addition of liquid nitrogen, which forces some beer into the widget through a small hole in the widget but doesn't dissolve in the beer. When you open the can, and depressurize it, the beer in the widget rushes out through the hole creating turbulence in the beer. This agitation causes carbon dioxide to come out of solution forming tiny bubbles. This emulates the the tiny bubbles and thick, creamy head that you get when serving cask from a beer engine with a sparkler.

When a beer engine has a sparkler, the beer is forced through small holes that agitate it and cause the CO2 to come out of solution and give you a nice head on the beer. In the Midlands and the North of England, this is expected. If you pour without a sparkler, you'll get a head referred to as "southern dish water" as you don't get the small bubbles that give a thick, wet foam. Most pubs in the North serve beer in "pint to line" glasses, as the Weights and Measures Act doesn't count the head as part of the pour. These glasses fit a pint and a bit to allow room for the head. Southern pubs where a thick foam is not expected often use "pint to brim" glasses with little to no head, but more CO2 remaining dissolved in the beer.

The attached video shows the bubbles formed from a proper Northern pour slowly rising to the surface and forming a stable foam. All the turbidity is from rising bubbles. Once the bubbles have risen, the beer is clear enough to read through.

 

[duncan.brown]

sounds like a nitro pour?

It's similar, but not quite the same. Cask is more delicate than nitro as it's carbonated in the cask, unfiltered, and you allow oxygen in when it's served, so the cask only lasts 48-72 hours. Sometimes 96, but it's past its prime. Nitro poured stouts are pressurized with an N2/CO2 mix (beer gas), are typically filtered or pasteurized, and never exposed to air. Nitro is generally served cooler (high 40s to low 50F) compared to cask that is mid 50F.

 

[DuncB]

I prefer a more scenic view through my cask " beer glasses"
One pub I visit has the " same " beer on nitro and hand pull. It is not the same.

 

[duncan.brown]

I prefer a more scenic view through my cask " beer glasses"

Agreed. Here’s one in its natural habitat.

 

[bracconiere]

i gotta say, both those drinks look like they were poured for actually drinking and not a photo op!

 

[DuncB]

Difficult to get the legs on the glass without drinking it I'd reckon.
Cracking looking pub though, can't wait to get back to England and get in a pub. Roll on June 25th lunchtime.

Organising the weather for the photo is the tricky bit!!

 

[duncan.brown]

This thread inspired me to pick up a copy of CAMRA's book "Cellarmanship" by Patrick O'Neill. His complaints about the "vexatious" use of the phrase "craft beer" on the east side of the Atlantic notwithstanding, it pretty much contains everything you might need to know about cask beer.

O'Neill says that for as cask that is tapped traditionally and lets oxygen in, the publican should size his or her casks so that they get through a cask in two days. Beyond this, oxygenation puts the beer past its prime. It also states that a sparkler on a swan neck works by the Bernoulli principle, not agitation, which I did not know.

 

[DuncB]

I certainly took advantage of the Bernoulli effect when building the whirlpool nozzle in my all in one brewer. I narrowed the pipe orifice down to increase the flow speed and hence whirlpool. Not so I could get a creamy head.
Not all sparklers put a northern head on the beer some just keep the spout a bit cleaner and provide a nice southern top rather than a thick northern head!!

https://rlbs.ltd.uk/flat-standard-sparkler-nozzle.html

 

[bracconiere]

It also states that a sparkler on a swan neck works by the Bernoulli principle,

i read that so wrong...now i have to ask either you guys or google.. is there something other then firwork type of burning sparkler?.

 

[duncan.brown]

Not all sparklers put a northern head on the beer

Well that's just wrong!

 

[DuncB]

Thought that might poke you.
Have to say though when I have put a stout on the beer engine the stout sparkler does a wonderful job and no need for beer gas. I think it's my long term stout goal to get away from beer gas and just use an engine for stout. I'd have to use the swan neck engine for that and the southern spout engines for the real ale.

 

[duncan.brown]

is there something other then firwork type of burning sparkler

Yes, it's the little plastic thing that screws onto the dispense tube of a beer engine.

 

[duncan.brown]

Thought that might poke you.
Have to say though when I have put a stout on the beer engine the stout sparkler does a wonderful job and no need for beer gas. I think it's my long term stout goal to get away from beer gas and just use an engine for stout. I'd have to use the swan neck engine for that and the southern spout engines for the real ale.

I was listening to episode 138 of the Hop Forward podcast today and there was an interview with Charlie Bamforth (the pope of foam). He told a story about how his job back when breweries had vertical integration and managed the pubs was to go around and yell at people who took the sparklers. Apparently, this was because they wanted a faster pour, but Bass wanted the beer to have a proper head so they cam up with a tamper proof sparkler than you couldn't remove!

 

[bracconiere]

Yes, it's the little plastic thing that screws onto the dispense tube of a beer engine.

View attachment 767679View attachment 767680

i think i'm liking this 'cask beer' thing more and more...So a 'sparkler' is a poor mans nitro tap? and instead of fancy beer gas at high pressure for the lazy people, you use some good ol' fashioned elbow grease....


(i so want to look into a RV shower head now, and under carb some beer....seriously...)

 

[bracconiere]

So would this be a good cask style picnic tap?


it'd be the perfect size to fill that glass in your avatar @duncan.brown !

 

[DuncB]

@bracconiere
Slightly different sparkler for stout called a creamer in some circles. Definitely gives a nitro pour for free though.

https://rlbs.ltd.uk/rlbs-cask-creamer-sparkler-nozzle.html
Selection of sparklers

Stout sparkler third from the left you put it onto the bottom of the glass for the whole pour.

Difference between swan neck ( northern type ) and southern spout above.

You can get a screw on adapter to lengthen the spout useful on southern spout if you need long neck or if you were filling really deep glasses with the swan neck such as that stein glass.
https://rlbs.ltd.uk/90mm-spout-nozzle-extension-white.htmlor for a bit more length
https://rlbs.ltd.uk/120mm-spout-dip-nozzle-extension-black.html
The red sparkler a bit of an oddity you have to push the end " point " up on the bottom of the glass to open the spring loaded valve, not sure whether it's to stop bugs getting in your pipes or what. I have only played with it.

 

[duncan.brown]

i so want to look into a RV shower head now, and under carb some beer....seriously...

You wouldn’t be the first! I’ve seen posts here where people have made a beer engine out of one of these:

 

[bracconiere]

You wouldn’t be the first! I’ve seen posts here where people have made a beer engine out of one of these:

so i'm assuming after the beer was done fermenting, i'd toss 1/2-1 cup of sugar in leave the PRV cracked open, and just pump the beer out? (i think i might have been drinking cask style a few times, and not realize it)

and thank you very much @DuncB for the pictorial! (before you described them, honestly i thought you were working on your sink!

 

[duncan.brown]

so i'm assuming after the beer was done fermenting, i'd toss 1/2-1 cup of sugar in leave the PRV cracked open, and just pump the beer out? (i think i might have been drinking cask style a few times, and not realize it)

I’d leave the PRV closed until it’s finished secondary fermentation and then open it before you start serving, but yes that sounds about right. According to this beer priming calculator you want 0.6 oz of sugar for a 5 gal batch to target 1.1 vols of carbonation. Or you could just transfer it with a gravity point or two left. Cask ale should be fined with isinglass so it’s clear, but gelatin will also do. The nice thing about isinglass is that you can add it at the start of secondary fermentation with the sugar and it will clear up the beer when the yeast is done.

I just finished brewing a 5 gal batch of my “I’ll have an otter, please” and the London III is off doing its stuff...

 

[DuncB]

I'd transfer some beer to a smaller container ( 5 litre plastic water containers that look like petrol carriers are an option ), either transfer short of final gravity or finish and then transfer and prime. Use a calculator to aim for about 1.2 vols. It will swell and you can vent the container, then open it up pump out and drink.
I'm sure you can get through a gallon in a weekend its very sessionable stuff.
Especially if you can get hold of some of these to go with your pint.

https://www.mrporky.co.uk/
Original or hand cooked are the ones you need.

 

[bracconiere]

Cask ale should be fined with isinglass so it’s clear,

to be clear that's not a typo? and you didn't mean to say is-in-glass?

The nice thing about isinglass is that you can add it at the start of secondary

now i'm really confused about is in glass!

 

[duncan.brown]

It's fish guts. Brewers call it isinglass so it doesn't sound gross. The yeast sticks to it when it's done fermenting and drops out of the beer leaving it clear.

Here's where I saw the RV pump before:

https://beerandbrewing.com/simulating-a-sparkler-on-a-beer-engine/

 

[bracconiere]

It's fish guts. Brewers call it isinglass so it doesn't sound gross.

thank you, i'm not sure if saying as one word actually helps though.....

 

[duncan.brown]

Original or hand cooked are the ones you need.

Or these...

https://www.britishcornershop.co.uk/smiths-scampi-fries

 

[DuncB]

@bracconiere
If you had a polypin or beer in a bag with a weight on it higher than your serving position with a tube to an extension ( linked above) and a sparkler you might be able to gravity feed the cask ale with a simple in line tap turn it on and off.