What is "Alt" beer

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
There is a recipe for Zum Uerige's Altbier in The Secrets of Master Brewers by Jeff Allworth.
As much close to the real thing as the Ueriges were willing to reveal.
It somewhat differs from the recipe that passedpawn cited above but just in tiny details.
There is some Caramalt and Roast Malt in it, in microscopic doses.
Compared to it, Kaiser's recipe seems to be three times more liberal with Crystal.
 
View attachment 783158


That's the most popular homebrew Altbier recipe I know among the community in Germany.
Still have to try it but it's supposed to be a great Schumacher clone.

Brewed a version of this up on Saturday.
Used Saphir instead of Mittlefrüh for bittering, also overlooked that it should be first wort but only boiled for 75 min not 90.
Did a one step 60 min mash at 152.
Yeast was WLP036 but has as similar attenuation to Brewferm Top and should hopefully be nicer than that dry yeast.

I will report back in March sometime after it has had a month to lager.
 
Brewing up an Altbier today for a competition for late Feb. The last batch I made was definitely in my top 3 homebrews ever. My brew club went nuts over it. Fingers crossed!

79% Pilsner
15% Munich
2% Carafa II
2% Caramunich I
2% Pale Chocolate
Wyeast 2565
Tettnang hops
Kegged this up and it smells a little more sulfur-y than I care for. Hopefully it dissipates. Wish I could have let it go another week (3 total) in primary, but I was crunched for time for the competition. I want it to be as clear as possible. I'll report back how the scores go.
 
Kegged this up and it smells a little more sulfur-y than I care for. Hopefully it dissipates. Wish I could have let it go another week (3 total) in primary, but I was crunched for time for the competition. I want it to be as clear as possible. I'll report back how the scores go.
Only 3 weeks old, with Wyeast 2565? Ruh-roh. In my experience with this yeast it takes at least 5-6 weeks to clear. With cold and gelatin, *maybe* you could knock a week or two off of that.
 
Only 3 weeks old, with Wyeast 2565? Ruh-roh. In my experience with this yeast it takes at least 5-6 weeks to clear. With cold and gelatin, *maybe* you could knock a week or two off of that.
I've had it crystal clear 2 weeks after kegging. This is 3rd generation, and I Biofine Clear in keg. Works like a miracle.
 
Brewed a version of this up on Saturday.
Used Saphir instead of Mittlefrüh for bittering, also overlooked that it should be first wort but only boiled for 75 min not 90.
Did a one step 60 min mash at 152.
Yeast was WLP036 but has as similar attenuation to Brewferm Top and should hopefully be nicer than that dry yeast.

I will report back in March sometime after it has had a month to lager.
My plan was to bottle this after two weeks, bottle condition for 2 or 3 weeks and then lager at 1 or 2oC for a few weeks.
Due to convenience and needing my kegator soon I just lagered it at 2oC for 2 weeks in the primary after 12 days.
I then bottled it on Saturday.
Surprisingly even after 15 days cold crashing after only 3 or 4 days the bottles already have a decent amout of CO2.
Tastes very promising already.
 
How much Biofine Clear, how exactly used, time/temp/process.
Very curious.
I use 1 oz per 5 gallons straight into the keg before racking the beer on top. My keezer is set to 38F. I know @Dgallo has great success with 1-2ml per 5 gallon. "Dosage Rates: 1/4 Tbsp (3 ml or 1/10oz) to as much as 2 Tbsp (31 ml or 1 fluid oz.) per 5 gallon batch of beer."

I always did 1 oz per 5 gal, because the first bottle I ever got was 1 oz. I now buy it in bulk. Biofine Clear Clarifier | MoreBeer
 
I use 1 oz per 5 gallons straight into the keg before racking the beer on top. My keezer is set to 38F. I know @Dgallo has great success with 1-2ml per 5 gallon. "Dosage Rates: 1/4 Tbsp (3 ml or 1/10oz) to as much as 2 Tbsp (31 ml or 1 fluid oz.) per 5 gallon batch of beer."

I always did 1 oz per 5 gal, because the first bottle I ever got was 1 oz. I now buy it in bulk. Biofine Clear
Deleted. Read wrong
 
90C41152-9F97-4AE5-BCB8-46606BE62255.jpeg

Collected 3 of the 4 breweries I visited at the altstadt in Düsseldorf! All that’s left is the Schumacher. I might need to fire up another alt to drink out of them!
 
View attachment 814503
Collected 3 of the 4 breweries I visited at the altstadt in Düsseldorf! All that’s left is the Schumacher. I might need to fire up another alt to drink out of them!

In the late 90s I traveled frequently from the 'States to Dusseldorf, especially in the summer of 1998. A lot of great memories from that year, and many great alt biers. Years later I had a cab driver in Aruba who was German. We got to talking and he told me he had grown up in Dusseldorf. I related how I'd really enjoyed the outdoor tables in the summer at Schlosser Alt braurie, only to learn that he'd grown up in an apartment directly above it. Truly a small world.
 
Kegged this up and it smells a little more sulfur-y than I care for. Hopefully it dissipates. Wish I could have let it go another week (3 total) in primary, but I was crunched for time for the competition. I want it to be as clear as possible. I'll report back how the scores go.
Welp, the beer didn't place. More of a "don't try to rush this beer" moment, than me messing up the recipe. I have a feeling if I let the yeast clean up, the beer would have turned out fine. That being said, I have a love hate relationship with 2565. When it works, it WORKS. When it doesn't, it DOESN'T. SO, I'm brewing this Alt again with Omega Kolsch II, which works fantastic for my Kolsch. I've got about 9 weeks to the competition, so if this batch doesn't work out how I think it will, I'll at least have another go at it.

80% Weyermann Pils
13.4% Weyermann Munich
2.2% Carafa II
2.2% Caramunich I
2.2% Pale Chocolate

Mash 151-152F
Omega Kolsch II yeast - Ferment 65F

Fingers crossed. The batch before the last batch was killer.
 
Did you get some good comments and feedback from the judges at least?
Waiting on the sheets. They told us 2-3 weeks, which to me is insane.

BUT, I knew I had sulfur issues going in. So I'm very interested in the comments and feedback.
 
I contacted Omega about their Kolsch II for an Altbier, and they said it tends to struggle a bit below 65F. They said keep right around 65F for the cleanest fermentation. I'll be using it for an Altbier and a Kolsch tomorrow and Friday, respectively.
 
Here are the 2 scoresheets from the Alt. Neither judge commented on sulfur or metallic taste, which I clearly taste. Got better scores than I expected, but there is work to be done! I already have the next batch fermenting! I used Omega Kolsch II vs 2565, which was used for the judged beer.
1final.png
2final.png
 
Neither scoresheet says anything about bitterness, which is a hallmark of this beer style. Both "judges" are professional brewers. I hope you didn't pay a lot of money to not have any BJCP judges judge your beer.
 
Neither scoresheet says anything about bitterness, which is a hallmark of this beer style. Both "judges" are professional brewers. I hope you didn't pay a lot of money to not have any BJCP judges judge your beer.

But as I posted in #55, don't be misled by the weirdness and atypicality of Uerig, per Piendl the Dusseldorf alts (excluding Uerig) average just under 30 IBU (BU:GU 62%), whereas Uerig is 48 IBU (BU:GU 102%) and in Munster they can go down to 12 IBU. I wouldn't call BU:GU 62% particularly bitter.
 
Neither scoresheet says anything about bitterness, which is a hallmark of this beer style. Both "judges" are professional brewers. I hope you didn't pay a lot of money to not have any BJCP judges judge your beer.
1st judge said, "low hop presence. Sight bite in finish, herbal in character." Took that as bitterness, and needed more malt for balancing.

2nd judge said, "flavor could showcase a bit more malt body for balance." Same thing here.
 
@wepeeler those are decent scores IMO. Just curious with context. Based on the scoresheets comments, what was your calculated IBUs? Agree that based on the comments, they wanted a little more "amped" up version of your beer. They both talk about balance with a little low on maltiness. Given that comment and the low hop presence it would seem that both bitterness and maltiness could increase? Glad you got some decent comments for you to work off of though.
 
@wepeeler those are decent scores IMO. Just curious with context. Based on the scoresheets comments, what was your calculated IBUs? Agree that based on the comments, they wanted a little more "amped" up version of your beer. They both talk about balance with a little low on maltiness. Given that comment and the low hop presence it would seem that both bitterness and maltiness could increase? Glad you got some decent comments for you to work off of though.
It's a good beer
ALT.png
 
It's a good beer
Looks good to me. I wouldn't change anything. Competitions are a crapshoot. If you entered the same beer again into another competition, you might get the same score with totally different comments, or might score a little higher than you got above, as your recipe is pretty much spot on.
 
Kegged up yet another Alt batch for a competition in May. Omega Kolsch II yeast this time around. First sample today was fantastic. Did a Kolsch with this yeast as well, and it's shaping up to be one of my best so far. Going to be very difficult to hang onto these for 2 months...

Beers were fermented at 66F for 14 and 13 days, respectively.
 
Kegged up yet another Alt batch for a competition in May. Omega Kolsch II yeast this time around. First sample today was fantastic. Did a Kolsch with this yeast as well, and it's shaping up to be one of my best so far. Going to be very difficult to hang onto these for 2 months...

Beers were fermented at 66F for 14 and 13 days, respectively.
I’m curious how much ester profile you are getting at 66F?

I’m doing a Kolsch now with dry Lallemand Kolsch yeast at 62F. So many years of brewing IPAs has me leery of going over 64F. When I brew a Dunkle I prefer to lean colder for clove over warmer for banana.
 
I’m curious how much ester profile you are getting at 66F?

I’m doing a Kolsch now with dry Lallemand Kolsch yeast at 62F. So many years of brewing IPAs has me leery of going over 64F. When I brew a Dunkle I prefer to lean colder for clove over warmer for banana.
Omega Kolsch II best temp is supposedly between 65-69F. Warmer fermenter than regular Kolsch yeast and better floccing. Little to no sulfur. I kegged in 14 days from brew day. Kolsch II

I was debating on keeping it on the yeast for another week, as I've had sulfur issues with Wyeast 2565 and most people told me to leave it on the yeast longer to clean up. I emailed Omega and they told me that OKII throws very little sulfur, but to taste before packaging if I could. I decided to go for it and keg on day 14 and NO sulfur. Both the Alt and Kolsch are clean as a whistle. Not many esters, imo either.
 
I'm brewing my Altbier today. I usually use WY1007 but I'm trying SafAle K-97. I usually ferment at 60 but the specs for this yeast say at least 64 so I guess I'll try that.
I started my last Alt with K97 at 60F and it came out great. Started increasing the temp 1F/day at 3 days and let it hold at 66F. 64 should be fine.
 
I'm brewing my Altbier today. I usually use WY1007 but I'm trying SafAle K-97. I usually ferment at 60 but the specs for this yeast say at least 64 so I guess I'll try that.
When it’s done, would you mind posting about how this yeast flocked? I brewed another style and it’s not clearing even after bottling and sitting in the fridge.
 
When it’s done, would you mind posting about how this yeast flocked? I brewed another style and it’s not clearing even after bottling and sitting in the fridge.
K-97 is a pain in the neck for floccing. I used Biofine clear, and it still took weeks to clear. It never got as clear as any other Kolsch yeast I've used. It also is my least favorite, flavor-wise.
 
K-97 is a pain in the neck for floccing. I used Biofine clear, and it still took weeks to clear. It never got as clear as any other Kolsch yeast I've used. It also is my least favorite, flavor-wise.
My limited knowledge is that is typical of kolsch yeast, but I’ve brewed with white labs kolsch and didn’t run into a problem. I don’t typically use finings following fermentation, but for the style… Alt is on my to brew list.
 
My limited knowledge is that is typical of kolsch yeast, but I’ve brewed with white labs kolsch and didn’t run into a problem. I don’t typically use finings following fermentation, but for the style… Alt is on my to brew list.
Yes, most Kolsch yeasts are stubborn. I've had decent success with Imperial Dieter and WLP029. Both flocced fairly well with Biofine Clear in the keg. K97 was by far the worst. Omega Kolsch II is by far the best floccer.
 
Yes, most Kolsch yeasts are stubborn. I've had decent success with Imperial Dieter and WLP029. Both flocced fairly well with Biofine Clear in the keg. K97 was by far the worst. Omega Kolsch II is by far the best floccer.

I bought some "Dieter" specifically for the purpose of brewing a Kolsch (it's assumed to be PJ Fruh yeast, which was my favorite Kolsch in Koln. Supposedly it flocs quite quickly and drops clear without filtering, though traditional Kolner beer is required to be filtered. Even though it's a violation of Reinheitsgebot, I generally dose my clear beers with Biofine. I haven't yet brewed with the Deiter as compared to WLP-029 (also reputed to be PJ Fruh), but my recollection of WLP-029 is that took a loooong time to drop and wasn't very clear without fining. I almost never filter beer, probably not once in the last 3 or 4 years. It's been two years since I last attempted a Kolsch, which 'placed' in competition but was generally just "O.K."

My understanding re: Dieter is that it is also an appropriate yeast for Alt bier as well as Kolsch. In my many travels to Germany, I spent far more time in Dusseldorf, though haven't attempted brewing an Alt in likely fifteen years or more. I enjoyed many Alts, though when in Germany I was always drawn more to Helles, Kolsch or Pils, especially in Frankfurt and Munich where Kolsch and Alt are rarely found. Altbier always reminded me of American Ambers, especially Alaskan Amber, which I like, but not worth traveling half way around the world to drink. Maybe if Dieter works out in the Kolsch I'll give it a go in another Alt attempt.
 
I bought some "Dieter" specifically for the purpose of brewing a Kolsch (it's assumed to be PJ Fruh yeast, which was my favorite Kolsch in Koln. Supposedly it flocs quite quickly and drops clear without filtering, though traditional Kolner beer is required to be filtered. Even though it's a violation of Reinheitsgebot, I generally dose my clear beers with Biofine. I haven't yet brewed with the Deiter as compared to WLP-029 (also reputed to be PJ Fruh), but my recollection of WLP-029 is that took a loooong time to drop and wasn't very clear without fining. I almost never filter beer, probably not once in the last 3 or 4 years. It's been two years since I last attempted a Kolsch, which 'placed' in competition but was generally just "O.K."

My understanding re: Dieter is that it is also an appropriate yeast for Alt bier as well as Kolsch. In my many travels to Germany, I spent far more time in Dusseldorf, though haven't attempted brewing an Alt in likely fifteen years or more. I enjoyed many Alts, though when in Germany I was always drawn more to Helles, Kolsch or Pils, especially in Frankfurt and Munich where Kolsch and Alt are rarely found. Altbier always reminded me of American Ambers, especially Alaskan Amber, which I like, but not worth traveling half way around the world to drink. Maybe if Dieter works out in the Kolsch I'll give it a go in another Alt attempt.
Very interesting!

Can't remember if I ever used Dieter for an Alt, but I brewed my first 10-15 batches of Kolsch with it. I started off loving it, and then for whatever reason, probably process, I couldn't get consistent results with it. I do Biofine all my beers except for NEIPAs, so clearing hasn't really been an issue. Dieter, WLP029, Wyeast 2565 and Omega Kolsch II have all dropped clear. K97 was the only one that wasn't brilliant. It almost had a chill haze look to it.

My understanding for Kolsch yeasts is that they can make nice Alts, BUT Alt yeasts (Dusseldorf) don't make Kolsches. Depends who you talk to, like all walks of life!

I can understand why you went the Helles, Kolsch and Pils route when in Germany. I would lean that way myself. I would love to get to Europe and taste some local beer. On the bucket list for sure!

The only Altbier that I've been exposed to is Long Trail Ale (VT). That was basically their house beer when they took off in the 90s. It remains a staple, and I like to get a 6 pack every once in awhile for old time's sake. Not sure if it tastes anything like a true European Altbier, but it certainly quenches my thirst. Malty, but dry and crisp.
 
When it’s done, would you mind posting about how this yeast flocked? I brewed another style and it’s not clearing even after bottling and sitting in the fridge.
I was really underwhelmed by K97, much preferring my fav WY1007, which is also not a super floccer, but K97 was slow to start, had some interesting esters no clear definition of tart or grape but something, and then stayed cloudy for frikin ever.
 
I was really underwhelmed by K97, much preferring my fav WY1007, which is also not a super floccer, but K97 was slow to start, had some interesting esters no clear definition of tart or grape but something, and then stayed cloudy for frikin ever.
So far, it's not been a slow starter. I sprinkled the yeast on top about 2:30 on Monday afternoon and I was getting bubbles out the blowout tube by 8:30 the next morning. It was bubbling rapidly by Tuesday afternoon. I pitched at 58 and let it rise to 64.
 
Coincidentally I’m brewing an Alt tomorrow. What’s your recipe, if you don’t mind sharing?
Sorry @Brooothru . when I saw your comment on thursday all I saw was If I didn't mind sharing and didnt even see that you were brewing this up on friday. Anyhow, here is the recipe I settled on this for go-round. I was pleased with my first brew of this about a year and a half ago, but decided to tinker with it of course. My tinkering was based on my interpretations of the scoresheets that @wepeeler posted from his comp suggesting they wanted a bit more amped up version ie more malt is how I interpreted that lol. So I gave it more malt and upped the IBUs from my previous batch. So here it is:

65% Weyermann Barke Pilsner
20% Epiphany Munich (essentially a more bold and slightly darker version of weyermann munich I)
5% Weyermann Munich II - I like the toast this brings
6% Briess Aromatic - don't you dare critique me for putting non-european aromatic into this beer. It was easy to do...just dump the grains into the mill lol.
2% Weyermann Caramunich III - previously used 6% but due to awesome maltiness of the epiphany munich, I decided I didn't need that much caramunich if at all.
2%. Weyermann Chocolate Wheat - I just love this malt and think it works better than caraffa special malts for this beer.

60min hops - Magnum (26.2 IBUs)
15min hops - Tettnang (9.6 IBUs)
10min hops - Tettnang (8.5 IBUs)

Used Dusseldorf yeast WLP036 - its a bitching fast fermentor but I will say its a crappy/low flocculator even though WLP says its flocculation is "medium" lol. Pitched at 60 and held at 61 until it krausen was gone and airlock started to slow (3.5days later!) then started ramping up to 71 over next few days. Tomorrow, this will be kegged as its been cold crashed for a few days.

I think this beer will turn out well. Hydrometer sample was excellent (although yeasty of course) and finished at 1.014 which is why I wanted to up the IBUs to balance the higher FG than lots get. So I think its well balanced. We will see how it does in comps where predominantly old-school peeps judge this beer but I'm sure very few have experience with knowing what an altbier SHOULD be like lol. Im thinking my recipe is just a bastardized and americanized version of an actual altbier from germany but hey it tastes solid to me regardless lol.

Cheers!
 
Back
Top