What is "Alt" beer

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^^ that looks like a good recipe. I like my alts pretty light though, just slightly malty. I do wonder about the judges...

I had planned to brew an alt today, but due to some logistics issues with my ferment chamber and other beers in there already, it's delayed (brewed 3 other beers today though, all ales).
 
^^ that looks like a good recipe. I like my alts pretty light though, just slightly malty. I do wonder about the judges...

I had planned to brew an alt today, but due to some logistics issues with my ferment chamber and other beers in there already, it's delayed (brewed 3 other beers today though, all ales).
Agreed about the judges. My previous altbier posted somewhere on this thread had only ~18% munich + Aromatic but also had 6% caramunich III. yeah I know the purists say theres no caramunich in these lol. Lucky for me I have a guy in my HB club whos retired and traveled across Europe including Belgium and Germany - munich and dusseldorf specifically. Without getting intel (like you have posted here @passedpawn) he was saying that there was more variation than expected in the Altbier style even within Dusseldorf. Some, he said were definitely more "caramelly" malty and others weren't so much and the bitterness shined more. Again, he never got any grain bills, but he thought my previous one was "in the neighborhood" for the style which was good enough for me. Excited to see how this one turns out.
 
Sorry @Brooothru . when I saw your comment on thursday all I saw was If I didn't mind sharing and didnt even see that you were brewing this up on friday. Anyhow, here is the recipe I settled on this for go-round. I was pleased with my first brew of this about a year and a half ago, but decided to tinker with it of course. My tinkering was based on my interpretations of the scoresheets that @wepeeler posted from his comp suggesting they wanted a bit more amped up version ie more malt is how I interpreted that lol. So I gave it more malt and upped the IBUs from my previous batch. So here it is:

65% Weyermann Barke Pilsner
20% Epiphany Munich (essentially a more bold and slightly darker version of weyermann munich I)
5% Weyermann Munich II - I like the toast this brings
6% Briess Aromatic - don't you dare critique me for putting non-european aromatic into this beer. It was easy to do...just dump the grains into the mill lol.
2% Weyermann Caramunich III - previously used 6% but due to awesome maltiness of the epiphany munich, I decided I didn't need that much caramunich if at all.
2%. Weyermann Chocolate Wheat - I just love this malt and think it works better than caraffa special malts for this beer.

60min hops - Magnum (26.2 IBUs)
15min hops - Tettnang (9.6 IBUs)
10min hops - Tettnang (8.5 IBUs)

Used Dusseldorf yeast WLP036 - its a bitching fast fermentor but I will say its a crappy/low flocculator even though WLP says its flocculation is "medium" lol. Pitched at 60 and held at 61 until it krausen was gone and airlock started to slow (3.5days later!) then started ramping up to 71 over next few days. Tomorrow, this will be kegged as its been cold crashed for a few days.

I think this beer will turn out well. Hydrometer sample was excellent (although yeasty of course) and finished at 1.014 which is why I wanted to up the IBUs to balance the higher FG than lots get. So I think its well balanced. We will see how it does in comps where predominantly old-school peeps judge this beer but I'm sure very few have experience with knowing what an altbier SHOULD be like lol. Im thinking my recipe is just a bastardized and americanized version of an actual altbier from germany but hey it tastes solid to me regardless lol.

Cheers!
Thanks for the reply. I did get the Alt brewed, and it’s recipe is very similar to yours. It ended up getting modified on the fly since ingredients I thought I had on hand weren’t there when it came time to crush grains and dig hops out of the freezer. Anyway, all turned out well and I hit all my numbers.

I pitched directly onto to a yeast cake of Imperial G03 “Dieter” which is primarily a Kolsch yeast but is also good for Alts. The Kolsch turned out very well and cleared quickly, but I dosed it with Biofine in a “brite” keg for even more clarity. Strong fermentation was apparent within a few hours with the Alt.

I’m thinking about referring to these two beers as “twin sons of different Mothers” since they are as much alike as they are different. I’ve quaffed many Alts in Düsseldorf as well as Kolsches in Cologne. Two cities so close, and yet their favored beers are so uniquely different.
 
“Without getting intel…he was saying that there was more variation than expected in the Altbier style even within Dusseldorf. Some, he said were definitely more "caramelly" malty and others weren't so much and the bitterness shined more.
^^^My experience as well. ^^^
 
Sorry @Brooothru . when I saw your comment on thursday all I saw was If I didn't mind sharing and didnt even see that you were brewing this up on friday. Anyhow, here is the recipe I settled on this for go-round. I was pleased with my first brew of this about a year and a half ago, but decided to tinker with it of course. My tinkering was based on my interpretations of the scoresheets that @wepeeler posted from his comp suggesting they wanted a bit more amped up version ie more malt is how I interpreted that lol. So I gave it more malt and upped the IBUs from my previous batch. So here it is:

65% Weyermann Barke Pilsner
20% Epiphany Munich (essentially a more bold and slightly darker version of weyermann munich I)
5% Weyermann Munich II - I like the toast this brings
6% Briess Aromatic - don't you dare critique me for putting non-european aromatic into this beer. It was easy to do...just dump the grains into the mill lol.
2% Weyermann Caramunich III - previously used 6% but due to awesome maltiness of the epiphany munich, I decided I didn't need that much caramunich if at all.
2%. Weyermann Chocolate Wheat - I just love this malt and think it works better than caraffa special malts for this beer.

60min hops - Magnum (26.2 IBUs)
15min hops - Tettnang (9.6 IBUs)
10min hops - Tettnang (8.5 IBUs)

Used Dusseldorf yeast WLP036 - its a bitching fast fermentor but I will say its a crappy/low flocculator even though WLP says its flocculation is "medium" lol. Pitched at 60 and held at 61 until it krausen was gone and airlock started to slow (3.5days later!) then started ramping up to 71 over next few days. Tomorrow, this will be kegged as its been cold crashed for a few days.

I think this beer will turn out well. Hydrometer sample was excellent (although yeasty of course) and finished at 1.014 which is why I wanted to up the IBUs to balance the higher FG than lots get. So I think its well balanced. We will see how it does in comps where predominantly old-school peeps judge this beer but I'm sure very few have experience with knowing what an altbier SHOULD be like lol. Im thinking my recipe is just a bastardized and americanized version of an actual altbier from germany but hey it tastes solid to me regardless lol.

Cheers!
Sounds delicious. Bravo for taking liberties with an old standard, your interesting riff on a classic accentuates the strong points, this is how the craft moves forward. I enjoy the style and I'd happily drink a few Stangen of your recipe.
 
Sounds delicious. Bravo for taking liberties with an old standard, your interesting riff on a classic accentuates the strong points, this is how the craft moves forward. I enjoy the style and I'd happily drink a few Stangen of your recipe.
Thanks for the kind reply. We will see just how it conditions and turns out in the end but I’m optimistic it will be an enjoyable beer despite what BJCP and German purists want this style to be lol. Enlighten me on this point please….is stangen the proper plural form of stange? Jeez guess I have to get a proper stange glass before I post a pic of the finished beer lol
 
Thanks for the kind reply. We will see just how it conditions and turns out in the end but I’m optimistic it will be an enjoyable beer despite what BJCP and German purists want this style to be lol. Enlighten me on this point please….is stangen the proper plural form of stange? Jeez guess I have to get a proper stange glass before I post a pic of the finished beer lol
Yeah it's just a smallish beer glass. Reminds me of the kölsch beer glasses but closer to a halbes, maybe 10oz IIRC.
 
Sorry @Brooothru . when I saw your comment on thursday all I saw was If I didn't mind sharing and didnt even see that you were brewing this up on friday. Anyhow, here is the recipe I settled on this for go-round. I was pleased with my first brew of this about a year and a half ago, but decided to tinker with it of course. My tinkering was based on my interpretations of the scoresheets that @wepeeler posted from his comp suggesting they wanted a bit more amped up version ie more malt is how I interpreted that lol. So I gave it more malt and upped the IBUs from my previous batch. So here it is:

65% Weyermann Barke Pilsner
20% Epiphany Munich (essentially a more bold and slightly darker version of weyermann munich I)
5% Weyermann Munich II - I like the toast this brings
6% Briess Aromatic - don't you dare critique me for putting non-european aromatic into this beer. It was easy to do...just dump the grains into the mill lol.
2% Weyermann Caramunich III - previously used 6% but due to awesome maltiness of the epiphany munich, I decided I didn't need that much caramunich if at all.
2%. Weyermann Chocolate Wheat - I just love this malt and think it works better than caraffa special malts for this beer.

60min hops - Magnum (26.2 IBUs)
15min hops - Tettnang (9.6 IBUs)
10min hops - Tettnang (8.5 IBUs)

Used Dusseldorf yeast WLP036 - its a bitching fast fermentor but I will say its a crappy/low flocculator even though WLP says its flocculation is "medium" lol. Pitched at 60 and held at 61 until it krausen was gone and airlock started to slow (3.5days later!) then started ramping up to 71 over next few days. Tomorrow, this will be kegged as its been cold crashed for a few days.

I think this beer will turn out well. Hydrometer sample was excellent (although yeasty of course) and finished at 1.014 which is why I wanted to up the IBUs to balance the higher FG than lots get. So I think its well balanced. We will see how it does in comps where predominantly old-school peeps judge this beer but I'm sure very few have experience with knowing what an altbier SHOULD be like lol. Im thinking my recipe is just a bastardized and americanized version of an actual altbier from germany but hey it tastes solid to me regardless lol.

Cheers!

My original recipe called for:

7# Weyermann Barke Munich
3# White wheat
1# Weyermann CaraMunich II (55L)
2 oz. Carafa II

Ended up:

4# Weyermann Barke Munich
3#. Munich II
2# 10 oz. White wheat
8 oz. CaraMunich II
12 oz. Caramel 60L
4 oz. acidulated
1 oz. Carafa I
1 oz Carafa III


Pretty much the same end result in the grist bill. Predicted O.G. from the mash was the same, and color was within a few degrees of identical at 13.5 SRM. Hops were off a bit. Original was:

0.5. oz. Hallertau Magnum FWH
1.00 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh @ :10 minutes
1.00 oz. Tettnanger @ :10 minutes
IBUs ~ 29

I scrambled to cobble something similar with what I could find. Some of the hops were pretty old, so after accounting for hop age I came up with:

0.25 oz. Hallertau Magnum @ FWH
0.75 oz. Herkules @ :30 minutes
1.00 oz. Hallertau Mittelfruh @ :15 minutes
1.00 oz. Tettnanger @ :15 minutes
0.75 oz. Tettnang Tettnanger (really old hops) @ :15 minutes

‘Predicted’ bitterness was somewhere around ~36 IBUs, which is still within range for style, though on the high side. With the age of some of the hop, however, it will probably come out to be somewhat closer to my desired target of around 30 IBUs.

Brew Day went quite well. After whirlpool and settling, 6.2 gallons went into the fermenter (target was 6.3 gallons) and OG was 1.046 (target was 1.045). I got a FG of 1.011 off the Kolsch I brewed with the yeast cake of 2nd generation G03 “Dieter”, so I should get at least 1.011 for FG on this batch, though likely a bit less due to the volume of very viable cells, so I’m guessing an ABV between 4.7% and 5.1% which would be slightly above mid-range for style.

Fermentation started within several hours of pitching, and it has been a steady drum beat of about one bubble per second out of the blow-off line. I’ll probably cap the fermenter for spunding after 4~5 days when the gravity drops to around 1.015 or so. Color, taste and aroma all are very ice from samples drawn. The wort is throwing off very little sediment and settles quickly while degassing in the sample jar. Hopes are high with this one.
 
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Yeah it's just a smallish beer glass. Reminds me of the kölsch beer glasses but closer to a halbes, maybe 10oz IIRC.
The traditional serving glass for Kolsch is called a Stange, just as you describe. I've been trying to find a set for serving the Kolsch I brewed recently. I'm trying to remember how the Alts were served in Dusseldorf, but am experiencing "senior moments" with that one.
 
Agreed about the judges. My previous altbier posted somewhere on this thread had only ~18% munich + Aromatic but also had 6% caramunich III. yeah I know the purists say theres no caramunich in these lol. Lucky for me I have a guy in my HB club whos retired and traveled across Europe including Belgium and Germany - munich and dusseldorf specifically. Without getting intel (like you have posted here @passedpawn) he was saying that there was more variation than expected in the Altbier style even within Dusseldorf. Some, he said were definitely more "caramelly" malty and others weren't so much and the bitterness shined more. Again, he never got any grain bills, but he thought my previous one was "in the neighborhood" for the style which was good enough for me. Excited to see how this one turns out.

Yeah, well, Schumacher Alt for one is insanely heavy and full-bodied for a beer that clocks in at only 4.6% ABV, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't chock-full of caramel malts. (It's listed as 11°P StW, which translates to an apparent attenuation of roughly 78%, just FYI.)

In the book "The Secrets of Master Brewers", Jeff Alworth talked to Christoph Tenge alt Hausbrauerei Zum Uerige. The homebrew recipe Alworth derived from these conversations is just Pilsner malt with some caramel malt and a bit of roasted malt. No Munich malt.
It's unlikely to be an exact replicate of the recipe used at Zum Uerige, but Christoph Tenge would have to be a master troll if caramel malts were in fact totally unheard of in the the production of Altbier.
(That's not to say that other breweries might shy away from it; Zum Uerige might even be the outlier, as they already are in terms of bitterness.)
 
Yeah, well, Schumacher Alt for one is insanely heavy and full-bodied for a beer that clocks in at only 4.6% ABV, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't chock-full of caramel malts. (It's listed as 11°P StW, which translates to an apparent attenuation of roughly 78%, just FYI.)

In the book "The Secrets of Master Brewers", Jeff Alworth talked to Christoph Tenge alt Hausbrauerei Zum Uerige. The homebrew recipe Alworth derived from these conversations is just Pilsner malt with some caramel malt and a bit of roasted malt. No Munich malt.
It's unlikely to be an exact replicate of the recipe used at Zum Uerige, but Christoph Tenge would have to be a master troll if caramel malts were in fact totally unheard of in the the production of Altbier.
(That's not to say that other breweries might shy away from it; Zum Uerige might even be the outlier, as they already are in terms of bitterness.)
When you say “no Munich” do you mean Munich (base malt) or CaraMunich (crystal)? My recipe had no Pilsner but all Barke Munich as the base, with just a chef’s kiss of CaraMunich 55L and only 2 oz. of dehusked carafa. Lot’s of malty goodness without cloying sweetness.
 
When you say “no Munich” do you mean Munich (base malt) or CaraMunich (crystal)? My recipe had no Pilsner but all Barke Munich as the base, with just a chef’s kiss of CaraMunich 55L and only 2 oz. of dehusked carafa. Lot’s of malty goodness without cloying sweetness.

The "No Munich malt" bit refers to the base malt named "Munich malt".

CaraMunich is, in fact, one of two caramel malt options suggested in the recipe (as an "either or").
 
The traditional serving glass for Kolsch is called a Stange, just as you describe. I've been trying to find a set for serving the Kolsch I brewed recently. I'm trying to remember how the Alts were served in Dusseldorf, but am

experiencing "senior moments" with that one.

Looks like a stange to me
1683475314050.png
 
Yeah, well, Schumacher Alt for one is insanely heavy and full-bodied for a beer that clocks in at only 4.6% ABV, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't chock-full of caramel malts. (It's listed as 11°P StW, which translates to an apparent attenuation of roughly 78%, just FYI.)
Flaked barley will get you all sorts of body without the sweet. I believe that's what Guinness uses. Or they used to, anyway.
 
The traditional serving glass for Kolsch is called a Stange, just as you describe. I've been trying to find a set for serving the Kolsch I brewed recently. I'm trying to remember how the Alts were served in Dusseldorf, but am experiencing "senior moments" with that one.
Check eBay for kölsch and alt glasses, that’s where I’ve gotten all of mine. Often can find them for a great price!
 
The traditional serving glass for Kolsch is called a Stange, just as you describe. I've been trying to find a set for serving the Kolsch I brewed recently. I'm trying to remember how the Alts were served in Dusseldorf, but am experiencing "senior moments" with that one.
The Altbier Stange is shorter and wider than a Kolsch Stange. The Altbier Stange holds .25l compared to .2l for Kolsch.20230507_150140.jpg
 
Flaked barley will get you all sorts of body without the sweet. I believe that's what Guinness uses. Or they used to, anyway.
Well, unmalted grains are an unlikely ingredient in a German brewery, I suppose. And Schumacher actually _did_ seem pretty sweet to me.
 
Sooooo, entered a comp this past weekend. I was really looking forward to see how this beer would be judged, but I guess I missed the style guidelines. A Master Cicerone judged it, so that was cool. He even said he'd enjoy a pint, but that it missed the mark. Biggest complaint was "too roasty", so I guess I need to dial back any malt with roast. You live, you learn, but I'm still damn proud with how it turned out! I will keep the recipe in the archives for a nice Fall beer, but tweak it to style. I included my tasting notes from tasting very early on, and I even thought it was too roasty. So there's that! Biggest complaint for me was deciphering these guy's handwriting!

Alt recipe.png
Alt notes.png
altbier 1.jpg
altbier 2.jpg
 
Just kegged my Alt yesterday, and based on your experience I may be disappointed with my scores as well. Mine was much maltier and “roastier” than I remembered Alts I had in Düsseldorf, though that’s been almost 20 years ago. The malty flavor likely came from under attenuation (1.046 OG - 1.014 FG, ABV barely 4.3%). The yeast was G03 “Dieter”, 1.5 liters harvested fresh 3 days earlier from a Kolsch that had finished at 1.011.

Still can’t figure out where all the ‘roast’ came from, since I only used 2 ounces of carafa in a 12# grist of half Weyermann Barke Pilsner and half Weyermann Munich. It tastes great and has a beautiful mahogany clarity with plenty of body, but needs slightly more alcohol to balance the malts. More (fresher) hops at :30 minutes would have likely helped as well since I didn’t have the Perle in the freezer I thought were there and used some old Herkules as a last minute substitute.

Still, like you I’m happy with the beer. It’ll surely get consumed, not dumped, but I doubt it will score well in comps based on conformity with style.
 
Sooooo, entered a comp this past weekend. I was really looking forward to see how this beer would be judged, but I guess I missed the style guidelines. A Master Cicerone judged it, so that was cool. He even said he'd enjoy a pint, but that it missed the mark. Biggest complaint was "too roasty", so I guess I need to dial back any malt with roast. You live, you learn, but I'm still damn proud with how it turned out! I will keep the recipe in the archives for a nice Fall beer, but tweak it to style. I included my tasting notes from tasting very early on, and I even thought it was too roasty. So there's that! Biggest complaint for me was deciphering these guy's handwriting!

View attachment 820085View attachment 820084View attachment 820086View attachment 820087

Please don't take this the wrong way, but if your goal was to brew "to style", which I understand as "resembling the classic examples of the style", then why did you brew it to 5.5% abv?
All the German examples I could find are at most 5% abv.

I'm not trying to criticise you or anything, I just want to understand better. Just now I read a brulosophy article where the author brews a German Pilsner - which clocked in at 6.2% (exBEERiment | Impact Post-Boil Acidification With Sauergut Has On A German Pilsner). And 99% of the pilsners I see here in Germany are at most, say, 5.3% abv.

And I think abv is one of the most important parameters of a recipe.
 
Please don't take this the wrong way, but if your goal was to brew "to style", which I understand as "resembling the classic examples of the style", then why did you brew it to 5.5% abv?
All the German examples I could find are at most 5% abv.

I'm not trying to criticise you or anything, I just want to understand better. Just now I read a brulosophy article where the author brews a German Pilsner - which clocked in at 6.2% (exBEERiment | Impact Post-Boil Acidification With Sauergut Has On A German Pilsner). And 99% of the pilsners I see here in Germany are at most, say, 5.3% abv.

And I think abv is one of the most important parameters of a recipe.
Well, I don't know the style other than an American version I've been drinking for 20+ years. It was based on a recipe I had tried to clone from a reputable brewing company in Vermont. Their flagship is a German Alt. I asked for their advice when I first started brewing about 6 years ago. I sent them my recipe, and they said it would make a reasonable clone. I've tweaked it over the years, and I enjoyed the higher ABV. To be honest, I've literally never read the BJCP guidelines, hence why it wasn't brewed "to style". Roast is a no no, and I had no clue.

At least I got great constructive feedback so I can tweak accordingly!
 
I had no clue.
But now thanks to the miracle of the Internet, you don't have to rely on the (very) distorted Chinese-whisper versions of US brewers, you can see what Germans think is required, the likes of Piendl and Narziss (two of the greatest German brewing scientists, both professors at Weihenstephan for many years) - an average of 1.047 OG, 80% attenuation and 34 EBC colour, Dusseldorf excluding Uerig around 30 IBU and Munster going down as low as 12 IBU. Grist is simple, just pilsner and a bit (say 10%) of Munich, no crystal but a bit of caramel or black malt for colour. And that's it.
 
But now thanks to the miracle of the Internet, you don't have to rely on the (very) distorted Chinese-whisper versions of US brewers, you can see what Germans think is required, the likes of Piendl and Narziss (two of the greatest German brewing scientists, both professors at Weihenstephan for many years) - an average of 1.047 OG, 80% attenuation and 34 EBC colour, Dusseldorf excluding Uerig around 30 IBU and Munster going down as low as 12 IBU. Grist is simple, just pilsner and a bit (say 10%) of Munich, no crystal but a bit of caramel or black malt for colour. And that's it.
It was more of "I hadn't researched the BJCP style guidelines before crafting the recipe years ago as a newbie brewer" than anything else. I just continued to tweak the recipe, because it's been a great beer, to me. Decided to enter it unaware of the guidelines. So definitely my own fault.

I appreciate the details. I will be adjusting the grist accordingly.
 
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I'm getting ready to do a Dusseldorf Altbier. Any opinions or experience using Belma (I have a pound of them) as a bittering hop?
Recipe: 11.25 gallons post boil wrong yeast shown. should be Wyeast German Ale 1007
1696428744444.png
 
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If Belma is "found to have an ambrosial mix of orange, melon, strawberry and pineapple with a slight hint of grapefruit", then as the Altbier style traditionally has "strikes a balance between hop and malt flavors and aromas, but can have low fruity esters and some peppery and floral hop aromas", typically using "Spalt, Magnum, Tettnang", then I really don't think so.
 
If Belma is "found to have an ambrosial mix of orange, melon, strawberry and pineapple with a slight hint of grapefruit", then as the Altbier style traditionally has "strikes a balance between hop and malt flavors and aromas, but can have low fruity esters and some peppery and floral hop aromas", typically using "Spalt, Magnum, Tettnang", then I really don't think so.
Agreed

BJCP 7B : Altbier

Flavor​

Malt profile similar to the aroma, with an assertive, medium to high hop bitterness balancing the rich malty flavors. The beer finishes medium-dry to dry with a grainy, bitter, malty-rich aftertaste. The finish is long-lasting, sometimes with a nutty or bittersweet impression. The apparent bitterness level is sometimes masked by the malt character if the beer is not very dry, but the bitterness tends to scale with the malt richness to maintain balance. No roast. No harshness. Clean fermentation profile. Light fruity esters, especially dark fruit, may be present. Medium to low spicy, peppery, or floral hop flavor. Light minerally character optional.
 
I'm getting ready to do a Dusseldorf Altbier. Any opinions or experience using Belma (I have a pound of them) as a bittering hop?
Recipe: 11.25 gallons post boil wrong yeast shown. should be Wyeast German Ale 1007
View attachment 830844
Use a clean bittering hop like horizon or magnum, you’ll thank your self for it in the end
 
I'm out of magnum. I do have a pound of Liberty 6.8 AA which seems to be a better choice. Thoughts?

Origin​

Bred in 1983, Liberty is an extension of the Hallertau hop family. It is a half-sister to Ultra,
Mt. Hood and Crystal. It is a triploid seedling of the German Hallertau variety.

Flavor & Aroma Profile​

Liberty is a bittering hop that is commonly used only to bitter the beer during brewing, and not for too much flavor and aromas.

Liberty hops have aroma descriptors that include noble, delicate, floral bouquet and spice. It displays mild floral and spice characteristics with some subtle citrus notes.

Beer Styles​

Some popular beer styles that make use of the Liberty hop include American Lager, German Lager, Pilsner, Bock, Kolsch & Wheat.

https://beermaverick.com/hop/liberty/
 
I'm out of magnum. I do have a pound of Liberty 6.8 AA which seems to be a better choice. Thoughts?

Origin​

Bred in 1983, Liberty is an extension of the Hallertau hop family. It is a half-sister to Ultra,
Mt. Hood and Crystal. It is a triploid seedling of the German Hallertau variety.

Flavor & Aroma Profile​

Liberty is a bittering hop that is commonly used only to bitter the beer during brewing, and not for too much flavor and aromas.

Liberty hops have aroma descriptors that include noble, delicate, floral bouquet and spice. It displays mild floral and spice characteristics with some subtle citrus notes.

Beer Styles​

Some popular beer styles that make use of the Liberty hop include American Lager, German Lager, Pilsner, Bock, Kolsch & Wheat.

https://beermaverick.com/hop/liberty/
:rock:
Definitely.
 
Liberty is a good hop. And they're wrong about flavor and aroma, brewers have been using this hop as a local and/or less expensive substitute for German grown noble hops for decades, though not as often today as 10+ years ago.
 
Liberty is a good hop. And they're wrong about flavor and aroma, brewers have been using this hop as a local and/or less expensive substitute for German grown noble hops for decades, though not as often today as 10+ years ago.
The bittering aroma hop thing always annoyed me. Take summit for example. High alpha called a bittering hop but if used late boil you can get a great orange zest/orange pith notes
 
Summit great bittering but had no experience of it late. Might be good choice in Fullers ESB clone as that a bit marmaladey.
I always think of altbier as maltforward hops are a bit of side dressing but not the main meal.
 
I don't know what you guys been drinking but the alts I know from here are actually anything but malt forward. Also not hop forward but still reasonably bitter. Closest thing that comes to my mind would be to call it a darker pilsner with a hint more yeast expression.
 
I'm not firmilar with that Best Aromatic malt.
Sounds like like it's similar to biscuit/victory/amber malt, just a tad darker.
Not sure if that belongs in an Alt.

Edit: the description of biscuit on their website confused me, it's actually a cara/crystal malt so should be fine.
 

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