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What happed to Guinness?

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Guinness is definitely a session beer. I've always thought of "dry stouts" being extra dry compared to a number of other english beers, or stouts in general. It seems to me that being lower in alcohol (4.3%) and dry (few residual sugars) means less grain (less malt flavor) and less body. I've noticed it's a little harder to really like beers around 4% ABV, mostly because I'm so used to American Pales/Browns/Porters at ~5.5% and plenty of flavor.

However, if you're looking for a Irish Dry Stout you can appreciate here in the U.S., try Beamish. IMO it's roastier, and has a little more body. It's hard to find on tap (unfortunately) but the nitro cans are still great.
 
I agree. The draught bottles dont even have the little wicket in them anymore

? They do here... I must say Guinness was the gateway for me to step out of the BMC category... so I can't hate on it too bad. I do really like Smithwicks though.
 
I've tried to "like" Guiness over the years. Every time I tried it, I felt like I was drinking "flat" tasteless beer. Everyone said "Oh, that's just the Nitro". So, I thought it was my problem. I now enjoy many different quality home brew styles. "Not gonna miss Guiness".

NRS
 
Actually, the more I think about it, I feel there is something wrong with the water... I've gotten aquarium water more than once in a Guinness bottle.
 
I was in Dublin last summer and I'll have to say that I couldn't discern much of a difference between the Guinness there and back here in the states. The only thing I can think of is that if you order a stout in Ireland, you're almost guaranteed to get one that's been poured correctly. At home, you either get a pint that's half head or with less than a 1/4" floating on top. I even had one bartender ask a bar back to take a look at the keg "because this beer is coming out all foam."

I'm more of a Beamish man myself, but there's nothing wrong with a well-poured pint of Guinness. As others have said, it seems to be a matter of expectations. If you go into a pint thinking about your last RIS or oatmeal/milk stout, I can see how Guinness would taste like water in comparison. But as a dark session ale, it's quite nice.
 
I think it's sad that some of us brewers can't enjoy a Guinness on tap. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Guinness has had a lot to do with your becoming a brewer in the first place. So even if you don't think it's as good as what you brew up in your own personal beertopia, you need to pay it some respect as one of your brewery's founding beers. Now I'm not saying you became a brewer because of Guinness, but I do think it is one of the first beers you used to open your palate.
 
justinakajuice said:
I think it's sad that some of us brewers can't enjoy a Guinness on tap. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Guinness has had a lot to do with your becoming a brewer in the first place. So even if you don't think it's as good as what you brew up in your own personal beertopia, you need to pay it some respect as one of your brewery's founding beers. Now I'm not saying you became a brewer because of Guinness, but I do think it is one of the first beers you used to open your palate.

+1... It opened the door for me because guinness was the first beer bought for me and I'm not sayin how old I was because I think it was meant to be a discouraging factor to the one who bought it. I went the opposite way and couldn't get enough..
 
I think it's sad that some of us brewers can't enjoy a Guinness on tap. I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Guinness has had a lot to do with your becoming a brewer in the first place. So even if you don't think it's as good as what you brew up in your own personal beertopia, you need to pay it some respect as one of your brewery's founding beers. Now I'm not saying you became a brewer because of Guinness, but I do think it is one of the first beers you used to open your palate.

+1... It opened the door for me because guinness was the first beer bought for me and I'm not sayin how old I was because I think it was meant to be a discouraging factor to the one who bought it. I went the opposite way and couldn't get enough..

Not my case. Guinness had nothing to do with my initiation into this hobby. Far before I started home brewing, I had gave up on BMCs. For a few years I was drinking at the level somewhere above BMCs and bellow the nicest crafts from microbreweries. I was drinking something like Blue Moon (a better Coors product) or leinenkugel, which I consider an intermediate level of quality.

Every once in a while I would have a more expensive high quality craft during that time, but one day in a small party with colleagues, someone brought a jug of homebrew and I thought it was just like or even better than the "expensive crafts" I was getting occasionally. From there, it all came naturally to me... nice and fast!
 
It was a long time ago, but I once read that the difference (recipe wise) from Budweiser and Guiness was only the small amount of black patent (or whatever dark roasted malt) used.

It is a light-ish session beer and, as others have said, the go-to beer when your palate develops beyond BMC.

Dance with the one that brung ya!
 
The draught cans have been fairly consistent in delivering the Guinness that Ive always loved. The pub that I had called a second home (it literally used to be a home) used to have the best Guinness in my area. Sadly, it was bought by two Irish natives, gutted and remodeled to look like a Disney version of an Irish pub. Somewhere in the renovation, the Guinness lost its taste. Sometimes due to the new dishwashing system/soapy glasses, but I think something happened to their nitrogen tanks too?

So my new favorite place is a smaller pub that still delivers great Guinness in imperial pint glasses.
 
It was a long time ago, but I once read that the difference (recipe wise) from Budweiser and Guiness was only the small amount of black patent (or whatever dark roasted malt) used.

. . .

Even if that were true for the grain bill (I'm pretty sure it's not as I don't believe that Guinness uses adjuncts and also has some flaked barley), differences in mash temps, hops, and yeast selection yields a vastly different beer, not just a "black Bud."

It's kind of like saying "the only difference recipe wise between a burger and a BLT is some ground beef."
 
It would be nice to know more technical details about all the versions of Guiness, and how it compares to other beers.
 
I've tried Guiness 3 times in the past and haven't been able to finish it ever. I found it far too flat and far to watery tasting - even when my beer of choice was Bud Light.

I had a Young's Double Chocolate Stout a few weeks ago. The carbonation was similar, but it definitely had the flavor to back it up and it actually had some mouthfeel.
 
I think Guiness Draught is an awesome session beer. It's more flavorful than a BL, less carbonated (easier to guzzle), and really low alcohol. If it wasn't so over-priced, I'd drink the heck out of it as an alternative to BMC. I even worked awhile to re-create it and the closest I got was similar to a Guiness Extra Stout (which is excellent, BTW)....I never did spring for the Nitro set-up, though.

I just love that I can drink a ridiculous amount, still think properly, and still enjoy drinking it. Of course it's a little "watery", that's what makes it the ultimate session beer! If the Irish know one thing, it's how to drink all day...[duck]
 
I had a Guinness for the first time in about a year like 3 weeks ago. I remember thinking that it was watery tasting and flavorless, but something was different this time. I don't think it deserves all the bashing it gets, maybe it's just an easy target (ala BMC)?

After homebrewing for a while and getting to know some of the subtleties that come along with certain styles, there was definitely something new there that I was able to appreciate when I came back to it. I'm not saying that I'm going to drink it all the time, but on St. Patrick's day I might have a few pints with a newfound understanding.
 
Someone correct me if Im wrong but afaik all Guiness is brewed in Dublin and therefor should taste the same where ever its drank - depending on how old it is of course.
I agree its not a great stout but beats BMC type lagers.
BTW the behemoth that is SABMiller has been making noises recently of buying Guiness.
 
Someone correct me if Im wrong but afaik all Guiness is brewed in Dublin and therefor should taste the same where ever its drank - depending on how old it is of course.
I agree its not a great stout but beats BMC type lagers.
BTW the behemoth that is SABMiller has been making noises recently of buying Guiness.

i think a lot of the extra stout is brewed in canada. the draught may be brewed in ireland. (i think it says this on the bottles)
 
What's the little thingy in the bottle do

called a widget. i think it has nitrogen in it? (correct me if im wrong) but when you crack the beer the pressure gets released and shoots out those creamy little bubbles. if you listen, you can hear it gurgling in the can or bottle
 
^^ You can even watch it if you want. Just peel the plastic off of a bottle and put a strong light behind it. The little widget takes off like a rocket and rattles around in there for about a second and a half. Kinda cool.
 
uncommonsense said:
What's the little thingy in the bottle do

It's a nitrogen widget that activates as soon as the bottle is opened to instantaneously carbonate the beer. It's supposed to simulate the taste of a draft Guinness. Before the bottle is opened, the beer is flat
 
Can you use the bottle for home brew. what would it do to say an ipa.

once its opened the nitro gets relesed. so it wouldn't work again :(

It's a nitrogen widget that activates as soon as the bottle is opened to instantaneously carbonate the beer. It's supposed to simulate the taste of a draft Guinness. Before the bottle is opened, the beer is flat

i'm pretty sure they carb the beer first. the nitrogen just knocks the bubbles out of solution or something. (from what i've read anyway, nitrogen doesn't disolve in beer very well). just like it works with nitro on draught. the beer is carbed as usual, but its pushed with nitro or beer gas
 
uncommonsense said:
Can you use the bottle for home brew. what would it do to say an ipa.

The widget is one-time use only, so u can use the bottle for hb if u can get the widget out; the widget will not work again. I haven't found any widgets for HBing use
 
The widget is one-time use only, so u can use the bottle for hb if u can get the widget out; the widget will not work again. I haven't found any widgets for HBing use

yeah. im not sure how they get the nitro in there. but it seems like you'd have to have a special machine to get them in there without the nitro just coming out.
 
Can you use the bottle for home brew. what would it do to say an ipa.

You can still reuse the bottle. The widget is relatively easy to remove with a pair of needlenose pliers.

It would be interesting to see what the new beer would do with a used widget as another place for bubbles to form, like the etched bottom of a Boston Lager glass. My only fear is that it may not get sanitized well enough and harbor bugs.
 
I've tried Guiness 3 times in the past and haven't been able to finish it ever. I found it far too flat and far to watery tasting - even when my beer of choice was Bud Light.

I had a Young's Double Chocolate Stout a few weeks ago. The carbonation was similar, but it definitely had the flavor to back it up and it actually had some mouthfeel.

Check out the Deception recipe in my sig.

I made it, then picked up Youngs to get a feel for the style. I really liked Youngs until I cracked open the Deception. I did a split batch 1 per recipe 1 with some minor tweaks; 2.0 as we call it blows Youngs out of the water.
 
I have somewhat the same experience with Guinness as OP. I don't think it's a bad beer now, it's just that i used to drink it ALL the time, and now i probably have 1-2 a year when i look at the beer menu and there is nothing else palatable. It'll do in a pinch, but not a go-to beer.
 
I think Guinness is getting bashed a little too much in this thread, so I'll play a little defense. I've always loved Guinness draught, but if you are going to get one on tap in the US, conditions have to be just right. A huge number of places that have it don't know how to pour it properly, or their serving setup isn't perfect. Usually it is the only one being served on Nitro or BeerGas, so it isn't a priority. A poorly poured Guinness just isn't as good. Don't expect a decent pint at a yuppie hangout or any place that has "Irish Pub" in the title. If you are at a legit Irish pub, it doesn't need to tell you what it is.

I think a lot of the posters calling it watery are being fooled by the low carbonation. I'm not saying Guinness has a heavy mouthfeel, but a lot of beers would feel watery when carbed and served this way. Remember, a stout faucet it designed to knock most of the carbonation out of the solution. That's what creates that thick, durable head. Some love this effect, others not so much. Either way, it is done purposely and should not be considered a flaw. The nitro is inert and tasteless. It is just there to push the beer out and help knock out the carbonation. If that's not for you, try some extra stout or foreign extra. Personally, I wish I could try those served like the draught.

For some reason, I've found canned Guinness draught to be better than bottles, and it comes in pints. To my knowledge, draught bottles in the US comes from Canada. "Imported". I just looked at a pint can, says "brewed in Dublin". That could be why I prefer the cans. Now, Guinness may not be the most complex stout to the palate, but it is a fine example of a dry Irish stout.

I've got an imperial coffee stout that isn't quite ready to be served, so I will be picking up some cans for my own quiet St. Paddy's day celebration. Cheers!
 
This is how a widget works : its actually filled with beer not nitrogen...
Beer is poured into an open beer (can in this case).
Widget (plastic, hollow ball with a 0.15mm hole drilled in it) is inserted into the can (empty at this point).
Liquid nitrogen is poured into the can.
Can is sealed (lid crimped on).
Can is pasterised. This causes an increase in pressure which forces (nitrogen charged) beer into the widget.
When the can is opened the release in pressure causes the beer in the widget to be released through the 0.15mm hole causing it to foam.
And there you have it :)
 
Interesting... I've definitely seen some bottles in the last few years coming from Canada though.

all of the extra stout i've seen is from canada. the draught always says imported from ireland (or brewed in ireland, cant remember). atleast here in myrtle beach.

This is how a widget works : its actually filled with beer not nitrogen...
Beer is poured into an open beer (can in this case).
Widget (plastic, hollow ball with a 0.15mm hole drilled in it) is inserted into the can (empty at this point).
Liquid nitrogen is poured into the can.
Can is sealed (lid crimped on).
Can is pasterised. This causes an increase in pressure which forces (nitrogen charged) beer into the widget.
When the can is opened the release in pressure causes the beer in the widget to be released through the 0.15mm hole causing it to foam.
And there you have it :)

there's the one. i read a bunch about it a while ago and couldn't remember exactly what i read that seemed the most likely/ came from reliable source/ heard the most often, etc. etc.... but this is the one.

question, if you know, how does the liquid nitrogen not freeze the beer? that stuff is cold. really cold
 
I don't know. Im not sure whether the small amount of nitrogen is enough to freeze the beer but even if it does it gets heated from pasteurisation.
 
where did you learn that if you don't mind me asking. (about how it works, not about the beer freezing)
 
where did you learn that if you don't mind me asking. (about how it works, not about the beer freezing)

Google is your freind ;)

This from Wiki :

Widget (beer)From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This article's introduction section may not adequately summarize its contents. To comply with Wikipedia's lead section guidelines, please consider expanding the lead to provide an accessible overview of the article's key points. (September 2010)
This article needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (September 2010)

Guinness floating widgetA widget is a device placed in a container of beer to manage the characteristics of the beer's head. The original widget was patented in Ireland by Guinness. The "floating widget" is found in cans of beer as a hollow plastic sphere, 3 cm in diameter (similar in appearance to a small table tennis ball) with a small hole in one side.

Contents

1 Background
2 Method
3 Development
4 Beer glass widget
5 References
6 Bibliography

[edit] BackgroundDraught Guinness, as it is known today, was first produced in 1964. With Guinness keen to produce draught beer packaged for consumers to drink at home, Bottled Draught Guinness was formulated in 1978 and launched into the Irish market in 1979. It was never actively marketed internationally as it required an "initiator" device, which looked rather like a syringe, to make it work.

[edit] MethodSome canned beers are pressurized by adding liquid nitrogen, which vaporises and expands in volume after the can is sealed, forcing gas and beer into the widget's hollow interior through a tiny hole—the less beer the better for subsequent head quality. In addition, some nitrogen dissolves in the beer which also contains dissolved carbon dioxide. It is important that oxygen be eliminated from any process developed as this can cause flavour deterioration when present.

The presence of dissolved nitrogen allows smaller bubbles to be formed thereby increasing the creaminess of the head. This is because the smaller bubbles need a higher internal pressure to balance the greater surface tension, which is inversely proportional to the radius of the bubbles. Achieving this higher pressure would not be possible with just dissolved carbon dioxide, as the greater solubility of this gas compared to nitrogen would create an unacceptably large head.

When the can is opened, the pressure in the can quickly drops, causing the pressurised gas and beer inside the widget to jet out from the hole. This agitation on the surrounding beer causes a chain reaction of bubble formation throughout the beer. The result, when the can is then poured out, is a surging mixture in the glass of very small gas bubbles and liquid.

This is the case with certain types of draught beer such as draught stouts. In the case of these draught beers, which before dispensing also contain a mixture of dissolved nitrogen and carbon dioxide, the agitation is caused by forcing the beer under pressure through small holes in a restrictor in the tap. The surging mixture gradually settles to produce a very creamy head

[edit] Development
Expired British Patent No 1266351, filed 27 January 1969In 1969 two Guinness brewers at Guinness's St James's Gate brewery in Dublin, Tony Carey & Sammy Hildebrand developed a system for producing draught type Guinness from cans or bottles through the discharge of gas from an internal compartment. It was patented in British Patent No 1266351, filed 27 January 1969, with a complete specification published 8 March 1972.

Development work on a can system under Project ACORN focused on an arrangement whereby a false lid underneath the main lid formed the gas chamber. Technical difficulties led to this approach being put on hold, and Guinness instead concentrated on bottles using external initiators. Subsequently, Guinness allowed this patent to lapse and it was not until Ernest Saunders centralised the company's research and development in 1984 that work restarted on this invention, under the direction of Alan Forage.

The design of an internal compartment that could be readily inserted during the canning process was devised by Alan Forage and William Byrne, and work started on the widget during the period 1984–85. The plan was to introduce a plastic capsule into the can, pressurise it during the filling process and then allow it to release this pressure in a controlled manner when the can was opened. This would be sufficient to initiate the product and give it the characteristic creamy head. However, Tony Carey observed that this resulted in beer being forced into the widget during pasteurisation, which reduced the quality of the head. He suggested overcoming this by rapidly inverting the can after the lid was seamed on. This extra innovation proved successful.

The first samples sent to Dublin were labelled "Project Dynamite", which caused some delay before customs and excise would release the samples.[citation needed] Because of this the name was changed to Oaktree. Another name that changed was "inserts"; the operators called them "widgets" almost immediately after they arrived on site, a name that has now stuck with the industry.[citation needed]

The development of ideas continued and more than one hundred alternatives were considered. The blow-moulded widget was to be pierced with a laser and a blower was then necessary to blow away the plume created by the laser burning through the polypropylene. This was abandoned and instead it was decided to gas-exchange air for nitrogen on the filler,[1] and produce the inserts with a hole in place using straightforward and cheaper injection-moulding techniques.

Commissioning began January 1988, with a national launch date of March 1989. This first-generation widget was a plastic disc held in place by friction in the bottom of the can. This method worked fine if the beer was served cold; when served warm the can would overflow when opened. The floating widget, which Guinness calls the "Smoothifier", was launched in 1997 and does not have this problem.

As the widget is a plastic material it can cause problems when the can is recycled. Users of cans containing widgets are often requested to remove them before recycling the can.

[edit] Beer glass widget
Circular widget etched in the base of a standard pint glass
Comparison of bubbles formed in a glass containing a widget (left) and one with a smooth base (right).The term widget can also be used to refer to a laser-etched pattern at the bottom of a beer glass which aids the release of carbon dioxide bubbles. [2] The pattern of the etching can be anything from a simple circular or chequered design to a logo or text.

The widget in the base of a beer glass works by creating a nucleation point, allowing the CO2 to be released from the liquid which comes into contact with it, thus assisting in maintaining head on the beer.

While glass widgets work on any carbonated beverage, the result is considerably less noticeable with bottled or canned drinks, with the best results produced in draught lager or cider
 

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