What are my electric brewing options?

[BeardedBrews]

The wire will stay connected to the element, which will stay fixed in the pot through the whole brew day. This keeps the plugs that can leak away from the water during your brew day.

If you're set on tipping the HLT you can certainly do that without unplugging it. There will be at least two wires (temperature probe and element), but you can mount them on the same side so they are easy to manage.

You can also get a bigger drain valve:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/172099435127?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

I went with the "heat the water up more" approach that you mentioned earlier though

 

[bbohanon]

Why not make this easier and just get a HotRod to use in your kettle if you are doing 5 gallon batches especially in an apartment scenario. This way you dont have to mod your current pots at all and its minimal investment.

When I make 5 gallon batches in my kitchen, its what I use. I don't even use my stove top at all for heat as the HotRod does the trick without it. I use the 2000 watt element in mine, plug mine into a GFCI 20a 120v plug by the stove and it works perfectly well for 5 gallon batches.

Done and done.

http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm
Get the 2000W element, wire it up, leak test it and enjoy. Less than $100 to do and you will love it. I have had mine for over a year now and its been one of the best products I have ever purchased for doing 5 gallon batches in the kitchen when doing 10 gallons on the HERMS is not ideal.

Just my .02..keep it simple when in an apartment setup and you can always resell it here once you get a house/brewshed/etc and are wanting to do the super eBrew setup.

 

[augiedoggy]

An often taken approach to lifting and pouring is using a pump. There are low cost options ...http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-Elec...438344?hash=item25b724e4c8:g:3vwAAOSwll1WuUjW I used 3 of these pumps in my setup but you only need one with hose barbs or calmocks attached... they work very well as long as you use good filtration to keep grain and solid trub out of your wort.. For this reason they are not ideal for everyone... They come in 12v and 24v versions and are food grade and good with boiling temps.


EDIT** I agree the hotrod suggested above is a good suggestion.

 

[mjw210]

Why not make this easier and just get a HotRod to use in your kettle if you are doing 5 gallon batches especially in an apartment scenario. This way you dont have to mod your current pots at all.

When I make 5 gallon batches in my kitchen, its what I use. I don't even use my stove top at all for heat as the HotRod does the trick without it. I use the 2000 watt element in mine, plug mine into a GFCI 20a 120v plug by the stove and it works perfectly well for 5 gallon batches.

Done and done.

http://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrod.htm
Get the 2000W element, wire it up, leak test it and enjoy. Less than $100 to do and you will love it. I have had mine for over a year now and its been one of the best products I have ever purchased for doing 5 gallon batches in the kitchen when doing 10 gallons on the HERMS is not ideal.

Just my .02..keep it simple when in an apartment setup and you can always resell it here once you get a house/brewshed/etc and are wanting to do the super eBrew setup.

Maybe I am overthinking it. I do like the idea of converting to a full electric system in the future, but for now this might actually do the trick.

• How long does it take you to bring a 5 gallon batch (6.5 or so pre-boil) to a full boil?
• How strong is the boil?
• Do you have to modify the pot, or does it just sit against the wall?
• My pot is about 17" from the base to the top (15 gallon Blichmann G1), see any issues between this height and the height of the pot?
• Which heating element do you use and have you had any issues with scorching?
• Is a power control box necessary with the 2000W element?

 

[dyqik]

The hotrod will just hang on the side of the pot - there's even a little clamp supplied with it give it something to hang on. A 17" high pot shouldn't be a problem with the HotRod.

I used the stainless base 2kW element from Brewhardware. You won't need a power control - 2kW will give you something towards the lower end of an acceptable boil strength. I just about got a reasonable boil - maybe a bit under 0.5 gal/hr boil off with my 2kW Hot Rod in an 8 gal Concord kettle. I was using this on a gas range, so the time to boil was shorter because I used the biggest burner with it, and I did sometimes keep the burner on low to up the boil off rate a bit. Now I'm using a 11 gal kettle with a 5500W element and power control, and I boil at about 2800W-3kW for 0.75 gal/hr boil off (different kettle and in a 55F basement, so not directly comparable to the hot rod before) on a 5.5 gal batch. For indoor apartment brewing, keeping to the lower end of acceptable boil off rates is probably a good idea, as it means that ventilation requirements to remove the steam produced aren't as high.

But you should be able to use the glass stove top safely enough with the kettle - clean the bottom of the kettle first so it doesn't scratch up the stove top, other than that it should be OK. Or you could insulate the kettle to improve the boil if you need to.

 

[WScottCross]

Using a 120VAC source will take just over an hour to heat 6 gallons of water by 100 degrees. A 240VAC source can do it in 16 minutes. Just something to keep in mind as you ponder which way to go. If you go the 120VAC, it means 10 gallon batches are practically impossible in a reasonable time. Not trying to push you either way, just food for thought.

 

[bbohanon]

Maybe I am overthinking it. I do like the idea of converting to a full electric system in the future, but for now this might actually do the trick.

• How long does it take you to bring a 5 gallon batch (6.5 or so pre-boil) to a full boil?
• How strong is the boil?
• Do you have to modify the pot, or does it just sit against the wall?
• My pot is about 17" from the base to the top (15 gallon Blichmann G1), see any issues between this height and the height of the pot?
• Which heating element do you use and have you had any issues with scorching?
• Is a power control box necessary with the 2000W element?

[*]How long does it take you to bring a 5 gallon batch (6.5 or so pre-boil) to a full boil?
A: From RTemp to strike temp (170) about 45 mins, from sparge out to boil, about 45 mins.

[*]How strong is the boil?
A: Enough to drive off all DMS, but not so bad its creates a low pressure system in your house. A good rolling boil is what I get.

[*]Do you have to modify the pot, or does it just sit against the wall?
A: I just put mine in the pot. No clamp or anything.

[*]My pot is about 17" from the base to the top (15 gallon Blichmann G1), see any issues between this height and the height of the pot?
A: I dont see an issue..the Hot Rod is pretty tall.

[*]Which heating element do you use and have you had any issues with scorching?
A: I use the 2000w ele. No scorching to date with any hop or hopshot additions, but I would power it off and remove it for any LME/DME additions as if you pour that in and it lands on that ele without dissolving, it will scorch no doubt. I would also not steep in a pot with the hot rod. The steeping bag will scorch. If I have to steep, I steep in a seperate pot.

[*]Is a power control box necessary with the 2000W element?
A: Nope

You ask anyone here who has a hot rod, its worth its weight in gold for the ease of use, low expense, lack of needing a controller to use, and its awesome portability. Again, if I lived in an apartment, its all I would honestly use along with potentially using it in tandem with my stove top heat to speed the boil up.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You ask anyone here who has a hot rod, its worth its weight in gold for the ease of use, low expense, lack of needing a controller to use, and its awesome portability. Again, if I lived in an apartment, its all I would honestly use along with potentially using it in tandem with my stove top heat to speed the boil up.

Agreed, Bobby hit a home run with the Hot Rod...maybe even a grand slam!

A 3v brewer slims down to 1 element and one power cord, an apartment brewer is capable of 10 gal batches w/2000 w on standard kitchen 20a GFI and stovetop heat.

No modifications required to the kettle, heat strike, then sparge, and boil.

You can also use a heatstick stir a mash and raise the temp a few degrees, or even do a mashout....continuous stirring required.

 

[dude3516]

I can see the appeal, but I really would rather avoid any additional set of automation. I enjoy the calculations for determining my brewing parameters, and I don't want a machine to take that away from me. I'm not looking to have a fully electric setup with a complex control box. Plus, I've always been under the impression (right or wrong) of anything that does it all, does each piece slightly worse than the dedicated equipment version.

Just have to re-iterate, there is no automation on a grainfather. The control box controls the electric element and the on/off switch for your pump. Has about 3 buttons total, and the two on switches.That's it. All other parameters, from mashing, temperature rises, sparging, and all the rest are still totally manual.

 

[mjw210]

Using a 120VAC source will take just over an hour to heat 6 gallons of water by 100 degrees. A 240VAC source can do it in 16 minutes. Just something to keep in mind as you ponder which way to go. If you go the 120VAC, it means 10 gallon batches are practically impossible in a reasonable time. Not trying to push you either way, just food for thought.

Problem is I'd have to figure out a way to connect the element to a non-GFCI'd dryer plug for the 240V vs. just plug and play in my kitchen's 20amp GFCI standard plug with a hot rod. The US just needs to get on the 240V standard bandwagon and all these problems would be solved.

 

[wilserbrewer]

The US just needs to get on the 240V standard bandwagon and all these problems would be solved.

That ain't happening anytime soon, so in the meantime you can brew happily with the hot rod using your kitchen outlet, if sometime in the future you decide to go a different route, you can most likely sell your hot rod for 70 cents on the dollar....maybe more if they are back ordered due to demand

 

[bradleyhunt]

If it were me and I wanted to go electric in an apartment. I would make an extension cord to run from the dryer outlet to my control panel using locking connectors. I'd first check to make sure the dryer breaker is 30 amp. The longer the extension the larger the risk of heat. So, you will need to look at how long the run will be and us the correct gauge wire. I would not modify the apartment to add a spa panel. Opening yourself up to a huge liability.

If your sticking to 5 gallon batches 4500w or 5500w are about the same. I'm sure the 15# brain bubbas will chime in and tell you about watts and amps and time to boil. BLUF it's just a few minutes more or less for 5 gallon batches depending on the wattage.

I believe your BLUF is actually a BLOB. Bottom Line On Bottom.

Corpus Christie, "15# Brain Bubbas," BLUF statement. Turbo prop guy?

 

[LarMoeCur]

I believe your BLUF is actually a BLOB. Bottom Line On Bottom.

Corpus Christie, "15# Brain Bubbas," BLUF statement. Turbo prop guy?

Right more like a BLOB. Nope no flying for me but close (Air Traffic Controller).

 

[bradleyhunt]

Right more like a BLOB. Nope no flying for me but close (Air Traffic Controller).

Gotcha. I had a few buddies go down to Corpus for turbo pro training before going to the C-130.

 

[mjw210]

I'm planning on going ahead with the Hot Rod (got one while they were in stock) and a 2000W heating element. I've looked at how to hook it up, but now I'm a bit confused by the plug.

Looking at the circuit breaker, the kitchen circuit is labeled "20", so I know I have a 20 amp circuit. However, when I go into the kitchen, my GFCI outlets look like this rather than this. Does that mean I have a 15 amp outlet on a 20 amp circuit? Is that an issue?

Also, when purchasing the plug, can I purchase a 15 amp plug and still run my 2000W element (since the circuit it's on 20 amps), or do you need a corresponding 20 amp circuit to run the respective element?

What are my options at this point? I'd rather not drop down to a 1500W element to run on a 15 amp outlet if my circuit is set for 20 amps.

 

[WScottCross]

Looks like they installed a 15 amp receptacle. You could change the receptacle out for a 20 amp receptacle, but you should verify that they ran 12 gauge wire to it first. Not good to run 20 amps through 14 gauge wire. If it's 14 gauge wire, you're limited to 15 amps.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Looks like they installed a 15 amp receptacle. .

This has always confused me. Most homes that have the 20 amp kitchen circuits all have the standard 15A outlets. Most commercial locations have the 20A outlets that I have observed. As I understand it, the 20A outlet is for a dedicated circuit with only one outlet. I have run the 2000w elements on 20A circuits through the standard outlets for years without issue....as I understand it this is not a problem, the difference between a 15 and a 20 is the plug configuration.

It is a bit confusing in the research I've done.

 

[dyqik]

The reason is so you can run a couple of 10A appliances on one circuit at the same time without nuisance breaker trips, which then leads to people doing silly things, like taping the breaker on, or just replacing the breaker and not the wires.

 

[WScottCross]

But running 20 amps through 14 gauge wire causes it to heat up significantly and poses a fire hazard. That's why the code specifies 12 gauge or larger conductors for a 20 amp circuit.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok, but what about running 20a on a 20a circuit w 12 ga wire with a 15a outlet?

Running a 2000w element on a 20 a kitchen circuit w 12 ga wire through the standard 15a outlet, assuming one is not running other appliances on that same circuit, is this an issue?

 

[mjw210]

I talked with my apartment building and they said they'd install the new outlet if I purchased it, so I'll have a 20a one in the wall soon.

My next issue....where the hell do I find 12/3 wire that has a temperature rating above 100C?

EDIT: I think I've got it...seems like type SJOOW cables by design only go up to 90C, I need SJEOOW cables.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Hopefully your wire isn't seeing 100c, the element gets hot, the wires stay cold

 

[dyqik]

But running 20 amps through 14 gauge wire causes it to heat up significantly and poses a fire hazard. That's why the code specifies 12 gauge or larger conductors for a 20 amp circuit.

Yes. That's why kitchens are often wired with 12awg cable and 20A breakers, feeding (multiple) 15A outlets. So you can run two 10A appliances (or 15A + 5A etc.) on the circuit at the same time.

 

[mjw210]

Hopefully your wire isn't seeing 100c, the element gets hot, the wires stay cold

Using the heating element in the boil kettle, so the wires in the immediate vicinity of the element and the wire in the submerged portions will be experiencing very near to boiling temperatures (100C/212F). Don't want to mess around with potential shorts from melting insulation if I can help it, even if I am GFCI protected. 20 amps is nothing to mess around with.

 

[BeardedBrews]

I'm sorry, I completely forgot you were going with the hot-rod option.

You're looking for SJEOOW power cord:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Coleman-...-Seoprene-Bulk-Wire-Black-09605BL08/204667771

Should be in stock at most of the local hardware stores, but it isn't cheap. Bobby sells it at BrewHardware too.

I would shoot an email to Bobby and give him the $10 to pull the wire through for you. You'd save the headache, I think he pulls the wire before he bends the tubing

 

[Traz1986]

An often taken approach to lifting and pouring is using a pump. There are low cost options ...http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-Elec...438344?hash=item25b724e4c8:g:3vwAAOSwll1WuUjW I used 3 of these pumps in my setup but you only need one with hose barbs or calmocks attached... they work very well as long as you use good filtration to keep grain and solid trub out of your wort.. For this reason they are not ideal for everyone... They come in 12v and 24v versions and are food grade and good with boiling temps.




EDIT** I agree the hotrod suggested above is a good suggestion.

How is that pump working out for you, what do you use to filter? How long do they last?

 

[augiedoggy]

How is that pump working out for you, what do you use to filter? How long do they last?

I have 3 installed in my brew system... they work very well Ive been using them for 3 years now and have well over 65 brew sessions on them. I did switch from the 12v versions to the better 24v versions about 2 years ago. I use a false bottom with a bazooka tube under it to catch what gets past it and then a braided stainless tube inside of the bazooka tube to act as a fine filter.
Works excellent and never had any sign of a slow or stuck sparge. or recirculation while using my rims.

 

[WScottCross]

Yes. That's why kitchens are often wired with 12awg cable and 20A breakers, feeding (multiple) 15A outlets. So you can run two 10A appliances (or 15A + 5A etc.) on the circuit at the same time.

Fair enough. I was just pointing out that it's something to check before trying to run more than 15A through the circuit.