Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[Kee]

I know I’m late to the party but where did you see this? Seems like the CSI site still shows 2.5lbs of D-180.

I can't find that exact post, CSI in this thread has mentioned a couple of times (best I recall) slightly modifying the amount of D-180. In post #392, he says they were using 5 pounds for 11 gallon batches, which is the recipe on page 1, although in post #395 he seems to imply that it was to match the SRM of the import.

When I have time I'll see if I can find the post I was going by, but you can't go wrong just following the listed recipe.

EDIT: No, didn't find it. And even if you do the math for a 5 gallon batch, instead of 5.5, you still come up with 2.27 lbs. of D-180. I would round down for a 5 gallon batch, but more for convenience. YMMV.

 

[jturman35]

Thanks for the reply!

I used 2lbs 10 oz ounces D-180 on the original and at a year old it stands up well when compared right next to Chimay Blue. I learned my lesson, don't keg this and put in the keezer right away. The keg version I have is still not ready compared to the bottle version. I bottled about a 18 pack using a beer gun, and left them age at room temp. The bottle version is a 40point beer. This beer needs to sit at room temp and age to come around. Even at a year in the keezer the keg version is still not ready.

I'm brewing this on my next batch and im going to try 2.5lbs D-180 this time with 50% Pils and MO whixh is pretty much the same as my last batch. This is one of the better recipes i have come across after having 45 brews under my belt.

 

[jturman35]

Hey guys looking for some input! I pitched a 3l starter and got this up to 81deg and she still didn’t finish down 1.010-1.012 like I hoped for. It’s been 22days in the conical and I was wandering if I should rack over to a keg pitches with a pack of Nottingham yeast hoping to get it down? Right now I’m stuck at 1.018. Would this be a bad idea if I let it sit a room temp for a few months in the keg? I could rig up some sort of spunding valve if need be but I wouldn’t think it would generate much co2 at this point.

 

[Kee]

Hey guys looking for some input! I pitched a 3l starter and got this up to 81deg and she still didn’t finish down 1.010-1.012 like I hoped for. It’s been 22days in the conical and I was wandering if I should rack over to a keg pitches with a pack of Nottingham yeast hoping to get it down? Right now I’m stuck at 1.018. Would this be a bad idea if I let it sit a room temp for a few months in the keg? I could rig up some sort of spunding valve if need be but I wouldn’t think it would generate much co2 at this point.

It certainly won't hurt to rack it to a keg while you considering your options. Whether you can get it down a few more points is an open question. I've only had one batch stuck in that range, but since my wife liked it I just went with it.

 

[Big Monk]

Hey guys looking for some input! I pitched a 3l starter and got this up to 81deg and she still didn’t finish down 1.010-1.012 like I hoped for. It’s been 22days in the conical and I was wandering if I should rack over to a keg pitches with a pack of Nottingham yeast hoping to get it down? Right now I’m stuck at 1.018. Would this be a bad idea if I let it sit a room temp for a few months in the keg? I could rig up some sort of spunding valve if need be but I wouldn’t think it would generate much co2 at this point.

What was your mash schedule and original gravity?

 

[jturman35]

90 min mash @ 149

1.089-1.018

I didn’t know if pitching a pack of Nottingham in the keg and letting it sit at room temp for a few months to age would get this down a few more points.

 

[Big Monk]

90 min mash @ 149

1.089-1.018

I didn’t know if pitching a pack of Nottingham in the keg and letting it sit at room temp for a few months to age would get this down a few more points.

A few things:

1.) You are at 84% Apparent Attenuation, which is pretty admirable. Contrary to what was reported in some versions of BLAM, Westvleteren 12 achieves 86% AA and finishes around 1.016 (if we do the math) rather than the 1.013 shown in the book.

2.) In future iterations, a dual beta rest, or a single rest lower than 149 F, may help you to eek out a few more points. For matters of attenuation, look to improve fermentability in the mash, not asking/expecting more of your yeast in the fermenter.

 

[Kee]

CSI was on to something capturing fresh krausen from one batch to pitch into the next. I "cheat" by pitching my entire starter at high krausen with this yeast. (Obviously you have to adjust your OG upward or you will lose a couple of points). I know, I know, some will turn away with shock and horror at the thought, but 6 or 7 days later the batch is down to 1.012 or 1.013. Fresh yeast really seem to make a difference here.

YMMV

 

[Big Monk]

Fresh yeast really seem to make a difference here.

This is something that has been on my mind lately. Fresh, healthy yeast is very important but can only do so much. Many people mistakenly attribute the entirety of the mechanism behind the limit of attenuation to the yeast when in actuality, attenuation is aided and mostly established in the mash tun.

You could have the freshest, healthiest yeast in the world but if you mash the beer at 170, final gravity WILL bottom out at a value higher than expected/desired. This is why multiple beta rests can be a real game changer for people looking to fine tune their apparent attenuation for specific beers.

The point? The science of microbiology (academic) is fairly complex but the applied science of microbiology (what we do) is fairly simple. Conversely, many have simplified the mashing process too much when in actuality it is a fair bit more complex than we give it credit for.

Make sure you pitch fresh/healthy yeast into a "quality" (from a fermentability perspective) wort and you will hit the limit of attenuation every time. This is really the hallmark of these Trappist beers.

 

[rideincircles]

I saw some comments above on ordering westvelteren. You can always check hop cask and barrel for what they have in stock in the DC area. Its always been one of my favorite USA beer shops and one of the few places that has had cantillon and westvleteren in stock.

https://www.hopcaskandbarrel.com/websearch_results.html?item_type=beer&sortby=dbottle
Also, I need to brew this beer soon. Ordering the real thing is too expensive, but I found a couple bottles when I was in Brussels. It has a cherry note that is just phenomenal. It is worth trying if you want to splurge.

 

[Big Monk]

Note: I passed the window to edit here but am posting these changes here to account for the error in calculations

1.) You are at ~81% Apparent Attenuation, which is pretty admirable.

2.) In future iterations, a dual beta rest, or a single rest lower than 149 F, may help you to eek out a few more points. For matters of attenuation, look to improve fermentability in the mash, not asking/expecting more of your yeast in the fermenter.

Just wanted to update this to show your actual apparent attenuation. I made a math error in Post #1,387.

I'll again reiterate: If you had a sufficient amount of healthy yest, look to your mash schedule the next time to increase fermentability.

 

[Hopmonkey]

Has anyone entered this into Beersmith? I am getting much higher numbers for color.
33 srm but should be between 12-22 (for style)
66 ebc but should be between 23-43 (for style)
Beersmith shows it as black.
Brewer's Friend has it around the same values.

For those who have brewed it, is it really that dark?

Also... What recipe have people been brewing with. The above color numbers are with the 2nd (more specialty) recipe.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Has anyone entered this into Beersmith? I am getting much higher numbers for color.
33 srm but should be between 12-22 (for style)
66 ebc but should be between 23-43 (for style)

European brewers tend not to have read the BJCP style guides.

The Roncoroni & Verstrepen book lists Westvleteren 12 at 61EBC (31SRM), and 29 IBU.

Whilst I'm about it, they have St Bernardus Abt 12 at 64EBC and 14 IBU.

And Rochefort 10 is 76EBC and 10 IBU.

Clearly the monks are brewing their beers wrong if the BJCP says they should be 23-43 EBC.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Has anyone entered this into Beersmith? I am getting much higher numbers for color.
33 srm but should be between 12-22 (for style)
66 ebc but should be between 23-43 (for style)
Beersmith shows it as black.
Brewer's Friend has it around the same values.

For those who have brewed it, is it really that dark?

Also... What recipe have people been brewing with. The above color numbers are with the 2nd (more specialty) recipe.

Yes, mine was definitely darker then authentic Westy12. I was more concerned that I didn't have the fruity esters that W12 has. 2lbs of 90 instead of 180 will be much closer to the true color.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Yes, mine was definitely darker then authentic Westy12. I was more concerned that I didn't have the fruity esters that W12 has. 2lbs of 90 instead of 180 will be much closer to the true color.View attachment 702594View attachment 702595

Both look delicious!

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Both look delicious!

Oh yeah! So the authentic, as I said, has more fruity character but also had that taste like a 500yr old brewery. Hard to describe. Mine was much cleaner but still needed more. But yes, totally enjoyed both! I should have aged a few bottles....

 

[Dog House Brew]

Getting ready for my fall brew binge. This is on my list. Going to do a big batch to cellar some. I’ve never had the original, so the HB will be better.

 

[deuc224]

How long do you guys let yours age? Have everything ready to do one .

 

[jturman35]

I'm a firm believer in at least 6 months at room temperature.

 

[Joshuah57]

I'm just starting the process to start brewing this. My brew day is planned for Halloween. Tonight I started the stage 1 of 2 starter. When I purchased the Wyeast 3787, I got 2 right away. I will use one for starter, but the other I want to use for bottling later on. What is the best recommended process and amount? I will be brewing a 10 gallon batch, so could I pitch the whole packet or will I need to split it or even make a starter for it?

Also, I saw a few talking about the boiling of the first runnings. Some say it's not worth the extra work, others have said they think it could have added some flavors. I will be using D-180. Might that be enough? I was thinking at this point that it could be interesting to try out. Any more opinions on this?

I will keep updating as to how it brews and ultimately turns out.

 

[deuc224]

I'm a firm believer in at least 6 months at room temperature.

Ok im gonna do this!

 

[jturman35]

My keg that been in the keezer since July 2019 (16 months) is still not ready! I bottled 20 bottles using a beer gun in March and threw those in the closet at house temp to speed up the aging process. When i popped open the first bottle in June if this year, way better then the keg version, the syrup taste finally converted and now you get some raison. Reminds me more of Chimay Blue, which i think is better than the real Westy12 when you consider it's mass produced. It takes time for the syrup to do it's thing. The warmer the temp the faster the age process!

I even went as far to pull the keg out of the keezer for a month, but even at 16 months it's still not ready. I'm not certain the bottle plays a role in making this beer even better. I can't get my keg version as good as the bottle, so if you have the capability to bottle condition i would do it.

 

[Joshuah57]

I just brewed the CSI version yesterday as a 10 gallon batch. I pitched a 5L decanted starter at 64 degrees. It's been 24 hours and I first have a little airlock activity. Could it be just a slow start? I do have another packet of the Wyeast 3787 yeast that I used for the original starter. Should I think of possibly pitching that or make another starter to pitch? From what I've read, it seems this yeast normally takes off much more than I am getting at this point.

 

[Joshuah57]

An update to my last reply....

Not long after I posted, the fermentation really started to get going. After 6 days, the gravity went from 1.088 to 1.018. Unfortunately, my basement is a little cool and the temp is down to 69 from a peak of 77 on Tuesday. Would it help any if I racked to a secondary tomorrow and then place in a warmer location for a few more days?

 

[Kee]

An update to my last reply....

Not long after I posted, the fermentation really started to get going. After 6 days, the gravity went from 1.088 to 1.018. Unfortunately, my basement is a little cool and the temp is down to 69 from a peak of 77 on Tuesday. Would it help any if I racked to a secondary tomorrow and then place in a warmer location for a few more days?

Warming it up is a good plan. If the yeast has already stalled and dropped clear, getting it going again can be hit or miss, but I'd probably give it a try.

 

[Joshuah57]

Sorry for the late response. The beer ended up finishing nicely right at 1.013. It is now resting comfortably at 50 degrees. I plan on bottling it in 2 weeks after 4 weeks at that temperature.

 

[Yeroc]

I brewed a 5 gallons batch on March 17, 2019, bottled May 27, 2019, then put the cases in the basement, and forgot about them until Thanksgiving 2020. So that's about 1.5 years of bottle aging.

I cooled down a bottle the day before and poured it on Thanksgiving. OMG, it was really enjoyable. Light carbonation. Flavors of burnt sugar, dark fruit, some chocolate & coffee. The alcohol is blended into the other flavors - it's there but not dominant. I am really happy the finish is dry and not cloying, which made me want to keep sipping this big beer.

I need to pull out a few more bottles to be ready for the rest of the holiday season.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I brewed a 5 gallons batch on March 17, 2019, bottled May 27, 2019, then put the cases in the basement, and forgot about them until Thanksgiving 2020. So that's about 1.5 years of bottle aging.

I cooled down a bottle the day before and poured it on Thanksgiving. OMG, it was really enjoyable. Light carbonation. Flavors of burnt sugar, dark fruit, some chocolate & coffee. The alcohol is blended into the other flavors - it's there but not dominant. I am really happy the finish is dry and not cloying, which made me want to keep sipping this big beer.

I need to pull out a few more bottles to be ready for the rest of the holiday season.

Getting the bug again but will bottle about half (2.5gal) this time to age so your experience is encouraging. Copied the exact hop profile (which gives IBU 29 on BeerSmith) from post 1 but changing the candi syrup to 1-D90 and 1-D180 in attempt to match the color better. BS says it's about 24 currently. In addition, as other suggested will bump up the fermentation temperature in attempt to get those fruity esters I tasted in the original. I always brew a Dubbel first to build yeast cake so won't be till January some time. But @Yeroc , love to see a pic if you don't mind!

Edit:
After reading @jturman35 comments...maybe just bottle and age all of it. Waiting is not my thing tho!

Edit2:
I'm also adding 8oz Melanoidin which supposedly gives the final product that decoction mash character.

 

[Kee]

Getting the bug again but will bottle about half (2.5gal) this time to age so your experience is encouraging. Copied the exact hop profile (which gives IBU 29 on BeerSmith) from post 1 but changing the candi syrup to 1-D90 and 1-D180 in attempt to match the color better.

My last batch (about 4 gallons) I used 1 lb. D180, 1 lb. D90, and at least at the moment, prefer the flavor profile to the original recipe. I bottled one gallon, kegged the rest and may end up wishing I'd bottled more. I'm giving the keg 7 weeks of aging at room temperature, the bottles (except for the two I've already drunk) I hope to set aside for at least a few months, if not longer.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

My last batch (about 4 gallons) I used 1 lb. D180, 1 lb. D90, and at least at the moment, prefer the flavor profile to the original recipe. I bottled one gallon, kegged the rest and may end up wishing I'd bottled more. I'm giving the keg 7 weeks of aging at room temperature, the bottles (except for the two I've already drunk) I hope to set aside for at least a few months, if not longer.

Yeah, I was thinking along those lines. I cold crash everything to clean it up. Makes sense to simply keg and store at room temp then to add/mix yeast back in to bottle condition. Beer gunning is a possibility once carbed but again, trying to make life easy here. Gives an excuse to buy yet another keg! Did the color come out more equivalent to the authentic Westy12? If you haven't had it, I have a pic a few posts up, #1394.