Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[ten80]

I added candy syrup in 1 lb increments then waited until about 3/4 of the sugar had been consumed, based on gravity readings.

I have some 1 year old bottles that aren't carbed enough and ended up a little high on gravity (~1.018). I'm going to add .5 mL of dilute Brettanomyces c. slurry to them and re-cap to see if they will cab and gain some interesting flavors. Nothing to loose as the beer is just "good" but not "great" right now.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

Just finished a 750ml bottle with SWMBO. OG was 1.092, FG 1.008. I added 3 pounda of D180 to the boil and pitched a 3L starter. Top-cropped that and re-yeasted after a month of primary and two months secondary. Ramped primary temp to 82 over the first week.

Beer is fantastic. Just amazing. Soft, smooth, dark...i want to open another 750, but I also want to walk tomorrow.

 

[eustacesk]

Brewed this on 3/4/18 and opened my first bottle this weekend. This turned out absolutely amazing. split a quart with my neighbor and realized this brew can get you going quick! Fantastic beer that is dangerously easy to drink. I made the syrup at home based off a "20Lbs of sugar and yeast nutrient" thread on here. Going to brew this again soon for the fall. Actually just plan on kegging it. I tried this when I was bottling and it was already delicious. So I figured why not double down on this brew for the fall/winter

 

[ten80]

Just finished a 750ml bottle with SWMBO. OG was 1.092, FG 1.008. I added 3 pounda of D180 to the boil and pitched a 3L starter. Top-cropped that and re-yeasted after a month of primary and two months secondary. Ramped primary temp to 82 over the first week.

I did a similar process, minus re-yeasting after a month and my brew stalled at 1.018. Tastes great but is a little sweet because of the high FG and under-carbonated because the yeast crapped out during bottle conditioning.

Next time I will definitely shoot for 1.008-ish by adding more active yeast during fermentation and try to hit 3 volumes of CO2 by adding active yeast to the bottling bucket.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I did a similar process, minus re-yeasting after a month

My original post is un-clear. I top-cropped yeast at high krausen and set that aside in a jar. After a month of primary and two months of secondary, I took my saved yeast, built another big starter. 1/3 of that went for bottling, with 1/3 going into a Belgian blonde, and saving the other 1/3 for the next big Belgian. With fresh yeast, the bottle conditioning was done in a week or ten days.

 

[eustacesk]

So im sure this is covered somewhere in the 32 pages of thread, but hoping someone has input on this one.

I noticed another recipe using various specialty malts on the first page. Has anyone made both the regular pilsner/pale malt(1st recipe) and the second one w/ specialty malts?? Any suggestion on what you liked better or you something you might change? Thinking of making another batch of this one soon. Thanks!

 

[j616s]

So im sure this is covered somewhere in the 32 pages of thread, but hoping someone has input on this one.

I noticed another recipe using various specialty malts on the first page. Has anyone made both the regular pilsner/pale malt(1st recipe) and the second one w/ specialty malts?? Any suggestion on what you liked better or you something you might change? Thinking of making another batch of this one soon. Thanks!

If you're talking about Saq's original recipe, that's the pre-2014 recipe. It's sublime. You get a lot more complexity going on a lot earlier in the life of the beer. Complexity that compliments the yeast really well. I've found that that recipe reached a stage I'd consider drinkable quicker than the pilsner/pale version. I think I prefer the pre-2014 version, myself. There's a lot more going on. But mine are both less than a year in the bottle and I gather both versions really need two before they properly shine. So my opinion may change

 

[j616s]

Just a note on getting this to ferment down. I've got extremely accurate temp control, a tilt hydrometer to keep track of things for when to change temps, and a temp controlled stir plate for my starter. I followed the recipe to the letter to the extreme and didn't have any issues getting this beer to FG. I wonder if stability of temps and accuracy of things like pitch rates is key to this beer doing what its supposed to.

 

[eustacesk]

If you're talking about Saq's original recipe, that's the pre-2014 recipe. It's sublime. You get a lot more complexity going on a lot earlier in the life of the beer. Complexity that compliments the yeast really well. I've found that that recipe reached a stage I'd consider drinkable quicker than the pilsner/pale version. I think I prefer the pre-2014 version, myself. There's a lot more going on. But mine are both less than a year in the bottle and I gather both versions really need two before they properly shine. So my opinion may change

Thanks! Thats exactly what i was looking for. Im going to do the Saq's recipe this round since im going to keg it and it will be nice to not have to wait so long. Thanks for the input!

 

[tellyho]

I have definitely brewed both recipes and like them equally.

 

[Nemanach]

What water profile is suggested for this clone?

This could be in the thread and I’m working through reading it all but I’m brewing this in a week and won’t be able to finish in time.

 

[jezza123]

I've had this recipe in the fermentor for a couple of days now. Using the WLP 530 yeast. Very active and smells funky. Should it be giving off such a strong smell? The 2 stage yeast stater I made with it also had the same funkiness to it - I'm worried it got contaminated during making the yeast starter.

Never had contamination issues before with a yeast starter but it was my first stepped starter. Should I be concerned or is this normal for this yeast?

Thanks!

 

[jtp137]

I've had this recipe in the fermentor for a couple of days now. Using the WLP 530 yeast. Very active and smells funky. Should it be giving off such a strong smell? The 2 stage yeast stater I made with it also had the same funkiness to it - I'm worried it got contaminated during making the yeast starter.

Never had contamination issues before with a yeast starter but it was my first stepped starter. Should I be concerned or is this normal for this yeast?

Thanks!

Yes this yeast has a different smell to it not to worry

 

[divrack]

f in ell. now that is what you call comprehensive (bordering on insane). anyway due to the obvious passion of people involved in this, this is going to be one of my next gos. thanks all!
normally don't have the patience but due to a good pipeline I feel this is a worthy long term brew to go with my sours, hopefully ready by the winter when they are most welcome.

 

[Oldskewl]

I cracked open a 1 1/2 year old bottle of this last night. It was so delicious. It just keeps getting better.

 

[GRJBowers]

I'm thinking about brewing this, but fermenting under pressure (15 psi) to tame the out of control krausen. How much would this inhibit the Belgian character? I've read a Brulosophy exbeeriment that suggests it may not, but this is a pretty iconic beer that I'd like to get as close as possible to the real thing.

 

[cheesebach]

I'm thinking about brewing this, but fermenting under pressure (15 psi) to tame the out of control krausen. How much would this inhibit the Belgian character? I've read a Brulosophy exbeeriment that suggests it may not, but this is a pretty iconic beer that I'd like to get as close as possible to the real thing.

Be really careful about taking any of those Brulosophy experiments which produced insignificant results as being indicative that the variable being tested has no effect. Due to the small sample sizes in most experiments, a higher percentage of “correct” participants is required to show significance than would be with say 100 participants. Also, I would argue that humans in general do not perform well in these triangle type tests, and that being blind to the variable being tested makes the task even more challenging. Why they don’t clue the tasters in to what was varied really bugs me - I’m much more interested in whether the experiment produced beers that are perceptively different than whether someone blind to the nature of the experiment can detect a difference without knowing whether aroma, flavor, mouthfeel, astringency, bitterness, etc. is likely to be affected.

I read the specific experiment you mentioned and noticed that 5 out of 6 tasters who completed the triangle test correctly also correctly identified which beer was fermented under pressure. This to me suggests the results for this particular experiment could be interpreted as “the variable in test produced beers that were perceptibly different to a subset of tasters, but the majority of tasters were unable to detect a difference between the samples.” Again, a much larger sample size is needed to make any real claims about the results, but it would have been more enlightening if they had questioned the people who guessed correctly what differences the noted between the samples.

TL/DR: This beer relies more heavily on attenuation and yeast character than the beer used in the experiment, be careful how you interpret the results.

 

[Sadu]

I'm thinking about brewing this, but fermenting under pressure (15 psi) to tame the out of control krausen. How much would this inhibit the Belgian character? I've read a Brulosophy exbeeriment that suggests it may not, but this is a pretty iconic beer that I'd like to get as close as possible to the real thing.

I definitely wouldn't. I brewed a Belgian blond under pressure once, a recipe I'd brewed normally a few times prior and had success with. The yeast character was very muted.
It could have been something else wrong, this was only 1 batch, but I won't be fermenting yeast-forward styles under pressure again. If you are worried about headspace transfer some to a growler or coke bottle and transfer back when fermentation is almost done.

 

[SoloBrew]

I'm a bit confused. Trying to wrap my head around adjusting strike and sparge water to a certain water profile. Does the trappist breweries adjust their strike and sparge water with minerals? If so, to replicate what a certain trappist brewery does, does a homebrewer first adjust the strike and sparge water to get the target water profile of, say Chimay, then adjust everything again when the mash goes in, in order to get a desired PH and a desired mineral composition as for example Chimay would have done it?
http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/common_belgian_water_profiles_rev_1.2.pdf

 

[Oldskewl]

I don't recall the water profile being discussed in this thread, but it has been a while since I read the whole thing. I have been reading "Brew Like a Monk" on and off this year. I'm pretty sure that I read that the breweries alter the water profile anyway.

 

[SoloBrew]

Yes. I hope there is acceptance in this forum thread for a little water discussion? Was such a great read, though it has been a while since my first read-through.

It seems trappist breweries alter the profile of their municipal water supply. So, in the example of the municipal water report of Chimay, which in ppm/l and ml/l is:
70 calcium, 21 sulfate, 21 chloride, 7 magnesium, 7 sodium, 216 bicarbonate

Look at the insane level (?) of bicarbonate? All of the trappist breweries have this similar high level of bicarbonate.. From what I've read this far, bicarbonate results in an increased alkalinity in your mash, which makes it tougher to affect pH up and down, in this case a lot, further resulting the need of a lot of acid (or other means) to get from say 5,5 pH down to 5,2-4 pH. High levels of alkalinity is great for brewing dark beers, but not for light beers, which our Westy mash is.

I assume when Chimay brew with their local water they reduce their bicarbonate levels by some method first? Maybe using pickling lime a.k.a. calcium hydroxide to precipitate out the excess bicarbonate? It can be boiled out as well to some degree, 2/3rds or something.

Further, if one is to follow John Palmers recommendations for minimum sulfate and chloride levels in brewing water taken from his book "Water - a comprehensive guide for brewers, " , chloride and sulfate needs to be at a minimum of 50 ppm to start have an effect on the perceived flavours in beer. According to Palmer, brewing water typically has 50-250 ppm of sulfate and 0-250 ppm of chloride. And furthermore, one should have double amount of chlorides to sulfates in order to give a sense of fullness to malt-forward beers.

70 ppm of calcium seems ok? There is a recommended "minimum" of 50 ppm there as well, stabilizing the enzymes in the alpha amylase range, aiding in protein coagulation which helps the lauter run off, and also benefiting the yeast flocculation. The problem for me with the chimay water profile looks to be that when you have low levels of sulfate and chloride but ok levels of calcium, adding calciumsulfate and calciumchloride to increase your levels of chloride and sulfate would bring your calcium levels up to 140-170 ppm.
Recommended range is between 50-150 ppm calcium for brewing water.

Any input in understanding this particular municipal water profile from Chimay and what to do with it? What would be a good target profile for a belgian dark strong ale? If I have misunderstood something then feel very free to correct. I've just begun to read about water in beer brewing.

 

[SoloBrew]

I brewed Westy 12 for the first time, 30 liters. Finally. Wyeast 3787. It's in the fermentation fridge now in two 22 liter carboys, going at it on the third day at 23 degrees celcius/73,4F. I'm regulating the wort temperature manually with an InkBird temperature controller. The temperature probe is taped and insulated to the surface of a plastic carboy and then I'm just regulating the air around it, ramping the wort temperature up manually one degree celcius a day basically until I reach 26 degrees celcius/78,8F at around 7 days in.

I aimed for this water profile:
Calcium 70, sulfate 50, chloride 102, magnesium 11, bicarbonate 36.

Residual alkalinity was low. Mash-in PH at 20 minutes came in at 5,45 after having added minerals for the mash. I wanted to get to around 5,25pH So I added 6 grams of lactic acid at 80%, which was too much. Mash pH went down to 5,1pH immediately. Added in 1,7g sodiumBicarbonate to increase pH and alkalinity, then mash pH came in at 5,2pH at 50 minutes. Will be much more careful with the lactic acid next time.


Larger issues: I came in at OG1080 due to a malfunctioning cirkulation pump right at the beginning of the mash (had to both cirkulate and control mash temperature by hand for 1,5 hours whilst taking PH-readings and adjusting for minerals. A HEAVY workload) paired with adding too much sparge water and not compensating with enough boiltime. Mash temperature was between 63C and 66C for 1,5 hours and mostly at 64-65C) Need to adjust and improve on these issues the next time this is brewed. And there will be a next time, as it feels very rewarding trying to get better and better at the many different challenges of this brewing process.

Here's my experimental fermentation setup for preventing the expected and extreme krausen blow-off whilst simultaneously re-introducing the krausen yeast cells back in to the fermenter. Was trusting on gravity to do the job, as was pointed out somewhere in this thread. Setup seems to be working but I was expecting a more aggressive krausen than this though. Didn't topcrop the wyeast 3787, but I have pitched about 444 billion cells coming from both a 5 liter yeast starter on stirrer and one extra smackpack of 3787 at yeast pitch. Oxygenated 30 liters of OG1080 wort with pure oxygen for 1 minute.

 

[jturman35]

I have a dumb question but could I ferment this beer under pressure using a conical? 1. Would that help with the blowoff and loosing yeast. 2. Would this cause to much stress to the yeast?

 

[jturman35]

How are folks brewing this in a conical? I have a Spike CF5 which has a 7 gallon capacity. Would 5 gallons be pushing this?

 

[ten80]

How are folks brewing this in a conical? I have a Spike CF5 which has a 7 gallon capacity. Would 5 gallons be pushing this?

Maybe under a little pressure, but then you should probably reduce the pressure to zero and ramp temperature up after high krausen to avoid inhibiting the yeast activity with excess dissolved CO2. I fermented 5 gal in an 8.5 gal Spiedel fermenter and I had krausen to the airlock. It was insane.

 

[DvlDg29]

Fingers crossed guys, I'm brewing the recipe in the first post tomorrow. I will be deploying with the USMC for a year, so I won't be tempted to touch it until early 2020 so this is the perfect time for me to try this one out.
Semper Fi

 

[jturman35]

Fingers crossed guys, I'm brewing the recipe in the first post tomorrow. I will be deploying with the USMC for a year, so I won't be tempted to touch it until early 2020 so this is the perfect time for me to try this one out.
Semper Fi

Thank you for your service Sir!!! May the beer Gods shine down on your creation!

 

[DvlDg29]

Thank you for your service Sir!!! May the beer Gods shine down on your creation!

It came in a little north of my target, 1.103! It's only been a few hours and there is already crazy activity. I'm fermenting 5 gallons in a 14 gal Chronical and there is tons of airlock activity!

 

[aaronm13]

Brewing this again over the Christmas holidays. Aiming to brew it once a year then age for 1 year. Have sampled some of the ones I brewed in January and it's pretty good but still lots of room for improvement. I've definitely gotten better as a brewer in the last year and also got a Grainfather so without going through this whole thread what would be the best stepped mash to use for this to maximize potential?

 

[catdaddy66]

Planning on this to be made in March for my birthday. Absolutely love this beer! Probably because I haven't made a bad batch yet. All of my brew buds love it so that feels good. Last batch is over a year ago and I only have a 12 pack left.