Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[catdaddy66]

Won a silver medal in our annual Abbaye Normal Belgian beer competition with a score of 40.5. [emoji482] View attachment 308768

Abbey... Abbey normal. Did you need a sedative?? LOL!

Well done!

 

[ahariton]

Lol. Thanks all. Very excited!!

 

[DogSlobber]

Thank you CSI and everyone else for posting such great information about this recipe! I just brewed this on Oct 11 and I'm super excited to see how it turns out! In my excitement I think I misunderstood the target gravity, though. I hit pre-boil of 1.063 and boiled for 135 min to bring it up to 1.09...without the d-180!! After cooling, I was up to 1.094. I pitched at 70f, holding off on the sugar for 24 hours on the recommendation of my lhbs. Fermentation was roaring at 6 hrs (2 viles wlp530 into 3.8 gal). I added 2 lbs of d-180 the next day and calculated the addition would have brought me up to an OG of 1.113!! What should I have targeted with and without the sugar addition? Weirdly, this was the lower gravity beer of the day compared to a 1.118 OG RIS I brewed in the morning.

 

[sikkingj]

Thank you CSI and everyone else for posting such great information about this recipe! I just brewed this on Oct 11 and I'm super excited to see how it turns out! In my excitement I think I misunderstood the target gravity, though. I hit pre-boil of 1.063 and boiled for 135 min to bring it up to 1.09...without the d-180!! After cooling, I was up to 1.094. I pitched at 70f, holding off on the sugar for 24 hours on the recommendation of my lhbs. Fermentation was roaring at 6 hrs (2 viles wlp530 into 3.8 gal). I added 2 lbs of d-180 the next day and calculated the addition would have brought me up to an OG of 1.113!! What should I have targeted with and without the sugar addition? Weirdly, this was the lower gravity beer of the day compared to a 1.118 OG RIS I brewed in the morning.

You could add water to dilute it, maybe a gallon or so to bring you up to 5 gallons.

 

[brew_darrymore]

Thank you CSI and everyone else for posting such great information about this recipe! I just brewed this on Oct 11 and I'm super excited to see how it turns out! In my excitement I think I misunderstood the target gravity, though. I hit pre-boil of 1.063 and boiled for 135 min to bring it up to 1.09...without the d-180!! After cooling, I was up to 1.094. I pitched at 70f, holding off on the sugar for 24 hours on the recommendation of my lhbs. Fermentation was roaring at 6 hrs (2 viles wlp530 into 3.8 gal). I added 2 lbs of d-180 the next day and calculated the addition would have brought me up to an OG of 1.113!! What should I have targeted with and without the sugar addition? Weirdly, this was the lower gravity beer of the day compared to a 1.118 OG RIS I brewed in the morning.

You seem to have scaled the recipe down to 3.8 gallons. If that's what you really wanted in your fermenter, you could have done a few things:

- use less grain next time;

- have a shorter boil - you boiled for 135 mins, while a 90-minute boil should have been OK; the extra boil-off in your case lead to a higher OG.

 

[DogSlobber]

You seem to have scaled the recipe down to 3.8 gallons. If that's what you really wanted in your fermenter, you could have done a few things:

- use less grain next time;

- have a shorter boil - you boiled for 135 mins, while a 90-minute boil should have been OK; the extra boil-off in your case lead to a higher OG.

Yeah, I scaled to 3.8 based on the amount of grain I can fit in my mash tun. I targeted 1.09 OG without sugar added because that's what I thought the recipe called for (which was the reason for the ridiculous boil). So what was the actual target original gravity before and after added sugar?

It smells amazing but has a very sharp alcoholic sting. Sampling gravity today indicated 1.014 which would be 14.5% ABV according to the calc. Have any of you ever brewed a beer this strong? Did it ever become drinkable?

I may go ahead with it anyway and re-brew to the right numbers. For science...

 

[DogSlobber]

Yeah, I scaled to 3.8 based on the amount of grain I can fit in my mash tun. I targeted 1.09 OG without sugar added because that's what I thought the recipe called for (which was the reason for the ridiculous boil). So what was the actual target original gravity before and after added sugar?

It smells amazing but has a very sharp alcoholic sting. Sampling gravity today indicated 1.014 which would be 14.5% ABV according to the calc. Have any of you ever brewed a beer this strong? Did it ever become drinkable?

I may go ahead with it anyway and re-brew to the right numbers. For science...

 

[brew_darrymore]

Yeah, I scaled to 3.8 based on the amount of grain I can fit in my mash tun. I targeted 1.09 OG without sugar added because that's what I thought the recipe called for (which was the reason for the ridiculous boil). So what was the actual target original gravity before and after added sugar?

The OG of the wort in fermenter (with added syrup) is supposed to be 1.090 or so (see page 3 of this thread).

Going backwards, you ended up with 3.8 gallons after the boil. According to the recipe, with the syrup added, your OG should have been 1.090. So, you should have ended up with 3.8 gallons x 90 = 342 gravity points. One pack of D-180 adds 32 gravity points. You added two packs, i.e. 2 x 32 = 64 points. That means you should have had 342 - 64 = 278 gravity points before adding the syrup at flameout.

278 points / 3.8 gallons = 73 points, i.e. your post-boil wort gravity before adding the two packs of syrup should have been 1.073 or so.

Use a recipe calculator to adjust the grain bill, so you end up with 3.8 gallons of post-boil wort (90 min. boil) with a SG of 1.073 or so.

 

[DogSlobber]

Terrific, thanks! I don't know how I missed that!

 

[breweringbeaz]

Great looking recipe!! Would you mind going over the optional steps. Are you stating to add the syrup in the one gallon boil or is the one gallon boil an additional syrup?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Great looking recipe!! Would you mind going over the optional steps. Are you stating to add the syrup in the one gallon boil or is the one gallon boil an additional syrup?

If using D-180 you should not need to perform a wort boil-down stage.

 

[rockdemon]

Ive made 2 attempts at the pious new world recipe of westy 12 and theyve both been disasters(like a weird mixture between a to fresh chimay blue, red wine and a stout with extra off flavors). Im gonn give this one a try now but im still in very much doubt, Ive never tried any beer thats been even remotely close to westy or abt 12 so if this recipe can get me even close to that i would be so thrilled. I mean, there are many belgian quads but I still havent tried any that resembles westy/abt 12. And yes, in my opinion they are very close and I cant decide which one i like more.

I have three questions thou,
1. i cant get a hold of d-180. is brewferm dark candysyrup an ok substitute?
2. How long does it take to boil down wort to make that syrup(it takes like 45 min to make a red wine sauce and thats only like half a bottle of wine)?
3.How come the wort boil down is "optional" if i need both that syrup and the "ordinary" syrup? Or is the wort boil down instead of d-180?

sorry for bad quality pictures but its just to also show how booring my foam head is compared to westys

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Ive made 2 attempts at the pious new world recipe of westy 12 and theyve both been disasters(like a weird mixture between a to fresh chimay blue, red wine and a stout with extra off flavors). Im gonn give this one a try now but im still in very much doubt, Ive never tried any beer thats been even remotely close to westy or abt 12 so if this recipe can get me even close to that i would be so thrilled. I mean, there are many belgian quads but I still havent tried any that resembles westy/abt 12. And yes, in my opinion they are very close and I cant decide which one i like more.

I have three questions thou,
1. i cant get a hold of d-180. is brewferm dark candysyrup an ok substitute?
2. How long does it take to boil down wort to make that syrup(it takes like 45 min to make a red wine sauce and thats only like half a bottle of wine)?
3.How come the wort boil down is "optional" if i need both that syrup and the "ordinary" syrup? Or is the wort boil down instead of d-180?

sorry for bad quality pictures but its just to also show how booring my foam head is compared to westys

1. i cant get a hold of d-180. is brewferm dark candysyrup an ok substitute?
If memory serves, the substitution of the brewferm dark product has been attempted by members of this thread with less than satisfactory results. You can buy D-180 in Holland, Belgium, and Germany. IM me and I can send links to resellers in the EU. Failing this you can order it reasonably from the States.

2. How long does it take to boil down wort to make that syrup(it takes like 45 min to make a red wine sauce and thats only like half a bottle of wine)?
(The wort boil-down idea was introduced by another brewer on another thread. It was to achieve a certain level of maltose caramelization. The caramelization in D-180 satisfies this palate profile so this step is not essential.) That being said, the timing of this boil down is less key than observing the physical properties of the wort when it has completed its boil off. When the wort is boiled to mostly a maltose syrup it will show larger, more persistent bubbles and have less steam rising from the boiling container. (Keeping in mind that at this stage it is very easy to burn maltose).

3.How come the wort boil down is "optional" if i need both that syrup and the "ordinary" syrup? Or is the wort boil down instead of d-180?
The wort boil-down method was introduced as a method to be used in conjunction with candi syrup. Candi Syrup is considered essential in most Belgian Dark Strong ales

 

[Nico93]

brewed today!

after 3 hours and a half i can notice pressure in the blow off tube, let you know how is turning out!

 

[jtp137]

Had the real deal last night. This was my third but first since I started trying to clone it. I noticed that the actually westy 12 is not as dark as my clones and I don't think it has that high of carbonation as other belgians

 

[jtp137]

Going to try my third attempt soon first is about 6 months in the keg and second around 4 months in the keg both are promising but they didnt attenuate down as much as they should i have tried lowering the mash temp to 148 increased the pitch count and even replaced some pilsner with sucrose still didn't ferment down enough. I have always had this experience with this strain even on tripels now I stick to wlp500 and have zero problems. Does anybody have any tips I can try with my third attempt? Forgot to mention also use pure O2 with a stone this yeast hates ne

 

[Kee]

Going to try my third attempt soon first is about 6 months in the keg and second around 4 months in the keg both are promising but they didnt attenuate down as much as they should i have tried lowering the mash temp to 148 increased the pitch count and even replaced some pilsner with sucrose still didn't ferment down enough. I have always had this experience with this strain even on tripels now I stick to wlp500 and have zero problems. Does anybody have any tips I can try with my third attempt? Forgot to mention also use pure O2 with a stone this yeast hates ne

It sounds like you are doing a lot of things right You didn't mention fermentation temperatures but it's really important to get the temperature up on this yeast. I think that the recipe mentions 78, I would go at least that high.

If you can, use fresh krausen. I finally took CSI's advice and tried this, it really makes a difference.

When I don't have fresh krausen, I sometimes take a freshly cold-crashed starter and step it up and pitch the whole thing at high krausen.

It's usually all about the yeast.

 

[jtp137]

It sounds like you are doing a lot of things right You didn't mention fermentation temperatures but it's really important to get the temperature up on this yeast. I think that the recipe mentions 78, I would go at least that high.



If you can, use fresh krausen. I finally took CSI's advice and tried this, it really makes a difference.



When I don't have fresh krausen, I sometimes take a freshly cold-crashed starter and step it up and pitch the whole thing at high krausen.



It's usually all about the yeast.

I followed the temp ramping schedule posted think pitched 65 raised to 80 over 7 days. I usually make 10 gallon batches so catching fresh krausen may be tough next time may make my starter decant and the day I brew throw in 2L of fresh wort and pitch when I see foam

 

[Jcpilot]

This beer is the best Belgian I have brewed to date. I'm looking forward to it aging for while and entering it into competitions next year. It will be difficult holding on to it for that long but everyone says it gets better. Thanks again CSI for doing the research and posting the recipe.

I just fabricated a stainless krausen capture lid for a mason jar inspired from CSI's capture system. I started a new thread for it so I wouldn't hijack this one. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7185994#post7185994

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

This beer is the best Belgian I have brewed to date. I'm looking forward to it aging for while and entering it into competitions next year. It will be difficult holding on to it for that long but everyone says it gets better. Thanks again CSI for doing the research and posting the recipe.

I just fabricated a stainless krausen capture lid for a mason jar inspired from CSI's capture system. I started a new thread for it so I wouldn't hijack this one. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7185994#post7185994

Very nice looking ale and a very nice krausen capture system!

 

[cyanmonkey]

She's at high krausen!!! She's picking up steam and she's gonna blooooooowwww!!!

Seriously, though, I've never had a brew have such vigorous fermentation and it goes against ever fiber of my being to let it go at 83*F, but away she goes.

Blowoff smells like banana and cinnamon. Sooooooo excited.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

She's at high krausen!!! She's picking up steam and she's gonna blooooooowwww!!!

Seriously, though, I've never had a brew have such vigorous fermentation and it goes against ever fiber of my being to let it go at 83*F, but away she goes.

Blowoff smells like banana and cinnamon. Sooooooo excited.

Any temp control on this? 83F might be on high side for this ale.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Any temp control on this? 83F might be on high side for this ale.

No, letting it do it's own thing. I've read multiple sources mentioning 82-84 (Michael Jackson for one) and someone somewhere mentioned they typically keep it below 83. I do have temp control, but was trying to keep it true to Westy style as I can.

It's down to 78 about 36 hours in.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

No, letting it do it's own thing. I've read multiple sources mentioning 82-84 (Michael Jackson for one) and someone somewhere mentioned they typically keep it below 83. I do have temp control, but was trying to keep it true to Westy style as I can.

It's down to 78 about 36 hours in.

Let us know how this turns out.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Let us know how this turns out.

Will do. Thanks for all your hard work.

 

[GregKelley]

No, letting it do it's own thing. I've read multiple sources mentioning 82-84 (Michael Jackson for one) and someone somewhere mentioned they typically keep it below 83. I do have temp control, but was trying to keep it true to Westy style as I can.

It's down to 78 about 36 hours in.

Realize that the temperature mentioned is for the specific setup that Westy is brewed in. Just hitting that temp may not have the same affect that they get because you have a different amount of wort being fermented and your fermenter geometry is different.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Realize that the temperature mentioned is for the specific setup that Westy is brewed in. Just hitting that temp may not have the same affect that they get because you have a different amount of wort being fermented and your fermenter geometry is different.

Understood. Guess we'll just wait and see. I ain't scurred.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

She's at high krausen!!! She's picking up steam and she's gonna blooooooowwww!!!

Seriously, though, I've never had a brew have such vigorous fermentation and it goes against ever fiber of my being to let it go at 83*F, but away she goes.

Blowoff smells like banana and cinnamon. Sooooooo excited.

Mine was temperature controlled, but went up to 83 F several times. It turned out to be an excellent beer.

 

[cyanmonkey]

No higher alcohols to speak of as of yet @ 70% aa. I have to assume issue would be more due to yeast health than ferm temperature, thoughts? Currently at 74 and will most likely hit terminal within 72 hours of pitching.

 

[jtp137]

No higher alcohols to speak of as of yet @ 70% aa. I have to assume issue would be more due to yeast health than ferm temperature, thoughts? Currently at 74 and will most likely hit terminal within 72 hours of pitching.

What temp did you pitch?