Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[gotbags-10]

Well that answers my question then. Bottles it is. How long at cellar temps could this beer age? 1,5,10years ?

 

[pwortiz]

How are the seals on your bottles? I have kept things in an unregulated cellar for over 3 years and people have only had positive things to say (could be lies I 'spose). As long as your seal is good, age it.is my inexperienced statement.

 

[ruger988]

I wish I could comment on kegging the the Westy 12 but we have never done it. As long as the cellar temps are maintained I see no reason why it would not turn out well. Although I would opt for a stainless dispensing side rather than vinyl or ldpe hose.

Does such a thing exist in an affordable form?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Does such a thing exist in an affordable form?

There is the stainless D-System and accompanying stainless coupler for Sankey and other kegs, (no hose).

http://www.micromatic.com/draft-keg-beer/keg-taps-couplers-pid-7485E-S.html

 

[jtp137]

When you crash the secondary to 60 degrees from 80 to get the last couple of gravity points do you do it over one day or do you lower a couple degrees a day?

 

[Colorado68]

I made this almost a year ago and is the best beer I've ever tasted, not to mention brewed. Unfortunately I only have half a case remaining and wish I'd waited at least a year before trying even the first bottle.
The taste just gets better with age.
I'm cellaring my last 12 bottles for next winter and will be starting another batch in June after I get my SS conical fermenter.
BTW..the krausen this puts off was so volatile the top of my bucket fermenter bulged several inches and had to place five gallon paint cans on top WITH a blow off, just to keep the lid on.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

When you crash the secondary to 60 degrees from 80 to get the last couple of gravity points do you do it over one day or do you lower a couple degrees a day?

You can crash it without ramping down. No down-side.

 

[jtp137]

At 1.016 you're close. In an extended secondary at 68-70F you should be able to drive the gravity down at least another 3 points.

5 days at 68 and its at 1.014 can still taste a little bit of Acetaldehyde. But behind that it wonderful dark fruit. Cant taste the toasted bread I remember from the actual Westy I had in November. It was a year old, does this flavor come through in aging or is this the result of a decoction

Should I warm it back up and re pitch fresh yeast to drive it down some more points, or crash it to 50 for the bulk aging

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

5 days at 68 and its at 1.014 can still taste a little bit of Acetaldehyde. But behind that it wonderful dark fruit. Cant taste the toasted bread I remember from the actual Westy I had in November. It was a year old, does this flavor come through in aging or is this the result of a decoction

Should I warm it back up and re pitch fresh yeast to drive it down some more points, or crash it to 50 for the bulk aging

Secondary should take 6-8 weeks traditionally. No warming should be needed. For added breadiness on the next batch, using decoction and additional Pale will help. Secondary or bottle aging will not normally enhance breadiness. (FMI, is the ale starchy?)

 

[jtp137]

Secondary should take 6-8 weeks traditionally. No warming should be needed. For added breadiness on the next batch, using decoction and additional Pale will help. Secondary or bottle aging will not normally enhance breadiness. (FMI, is the ale starchy?)

6 to 8 weeks at 60 degrees or 6 to 8 weeks at 50

 

[jtp137]

Its not starchy at all and not sweet. Just the classic green apple of a young beer, but I can taste the caramel, dark fruit and complexity

 

[Baja_Brewer]

I'm totally making this but going to wait until I have a pipeline built up so I can afford to give this its proper temperatures and times.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

6 to 8 weeks at 60 degrees or 6 to 8 weeks at 50

If the batch is still pushing gravity then 60F in secondary. Ordinarily at the end of primary (1.013) you would crash to a brightening temp of 50F.

 

[jtp137]

If the batch is still pushing gravity then 60F. The brightening crash is 50F. Because this ale is so dark, the brightening time can be variable.

I really beed to get a bottling hydrometer its hard to tell over a few points.

I followed the recipe to a T from the first page, next time I may increase the pale or throw a 1/4 pound of melanoidin malt to push the toasted bread flavor and simulate a decoction

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I really beed to get a bottling hydrometer its hard to tell over a few points.

I followed the recipe to a T from the first page, next time I may increase the pale or throw a 1/4 pound of melanoidin malt to push the toasted bread flavor and simulate a decoction

We ran a trial in October last year using only Dingeman's Pale. It's much more bready than the import and was well worth the experiment. It's now my favorite variation of this ale. I'd leave the Melanoidin and go all Pale IMHO.

 

[gotbags-10]

We ran a trial in October last year using only Dingeman's Pale. It's much more bready than the import and was well worth the experiment. It's now my favorite variation of this ale. I'd leave the Melanoidin and go all Pale IMHO.

Hmm interesting. All pale malt. What about something like 75%pale 25%pilsner

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Hmm interesting. All pale malt. What about something like 75%pale 25%pilsner

Sure.

 

[jtp137]

CSI Looking through the old thread it looks like a lot of people would pitch at 65 and let the yeast rise naturally to 80 and hold the temp until it reached around 80% attenuation. Some said that it hit 80 in 36 hours

Is there a reason why you pitch at 65 and ramp evenly over 7 days till you hit 80. Is the first method susceptible to fusel alcohols. Or does the first method give too much fruity esters not characteristic of a true westy 12

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

CSI Looking through the old thread it looks like a lot of people would pitch at 65 and let the yeast rise naturally to 80 and hold the temp until it reached around 80% attenuation. Some said that it hit 80 in 36 hours

Is there a reason why you pitch at 65 and ramp evenly over 7 days till you hit 80. Is the first method susceptible to fusel alcohols. Or does the first method give too much fruity esters not characteristic of a true westy 12

Really good topic. The old thread had a lot of carryover questions in method that we've tried to correct here in the new thread. A free rise on a high abv ale can get well above 85F internally, (i've seen 92F on the top side). There are three reasons this can marginalize the quality of a high abv clone. (1) Allowing free rise can create a high mortality rate in the yeast while creating decomposition by-products, (histamines and protein decomposition chain sulphur by-products). (2) The production of too high a concentration of fusels. (3) too much fruity ester production. All three of these carry noticeable negatives if submitting to BJCP competitions or sharing with experienced ale tasters.

BLAM notes that the free rise is manually controlled by the monks at St. Sixtus to keep the temperature in check during the rise to high krausen. We took our queue from this method and tried 84F, 82F and 80F. When controlling the metabolic temp to no higher than 80F we obtained the smoothest and best clone of this ale consistently.

We also found that yeast quality, (fresh krausen), is equally important to the pitch rate. For 5 gallons (19 L) of 1.090 wort the pitch should start at 300-320 Billion cells of high quality yeast. We walked this down here to 270 billion for 19L. The end result of this clone should be a subtle balance of bread-fruit-spice-yeast, however, this is the baseline for the clone. No rules beyond the baseline

BTW, I apologize for taking so long to get the yeast krausen capture pics up. I've had to step back from our larger capture method using stainless tri-clamp micro-industrial hardware to a pyrex version so the process can be photographed. I have the new glassware and will set this up for pics.

 

[gotbags-10]

Well crap went to get my yeast today and my lhbs no longer carries wlp530. They do have Wyeast 3787 Belgian Trappist. if it makes all the difference in the world then I'll bit the bullet and order the 530 online.

 

[ruger988]

3787 is perfect.

 

[jtp137]

Yep same stuff Westmalle strain

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Yep, concur.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I brewed for the first time this just before Christmas with my brother-in-law, and it's now done with the 2 month aging process at 50F and I'm ready to bottle. I haven't bottled much I went right to kegs so I have a few questions.

I read the great summary of tips on page 3 by Bottoms_up and it seems like I have some options:

I could carb just with corn sugar, but others report using CSI'S D-180 or CSI's Golden (clear) syrup. It seems like 2.5-2.6 volumes in a good target. Also I see I should re-pitch about 75 billion cells for my 5 gallon batch.

Any advice or tips? I just want to make sure I get proper carbonation and don't pooch up this beer which has signs of being spectacular at this very-last step.

 

[Bottoms_Up]

I brewed for the first time this just before Christmas with my brother-in-law, and it's now done with the 2 month aging process at 50F and I'm ready to bottle. I haven't bottled much I went right to kegs so I have a few questions.

I read the great summary of tips on page 3 by Bottoms_up and it seems like I have some options:

I could carb just with corn sugar, but others report using CSI'S D-180 or CSI's Golden (clear) syrup. It seems like 2.5-2.6 volumes in a good target. Also I see I should re-pitch about 75 billion cells for my 5 gallon batch.

Any advice or tips? I just want to make sure I get proper carbonation and don't pooch up this beer which has signs of being spectacular at this very-last step.

Using D-180 is probably the best option, but I went with dextrose so I wouldn't have to store a partly opened package of D-180. I have kegs but decided to bottle, since this is a beer you want to age, and I didn't want to tie up a keg for such a long period. This is the approach I used:

I boiled 1-1/4 cups of water in a small pot. When it came to a boil, I added 172 grams of dextrose (corn sugar) and stirred. Theoretically, this should give 2.8 volumes of CO2 @ 70 F. Let it boil for 10-15 minutes. Then cool it to room temperature and add it to a sanitized fermentation pail. Siphon the beer into the pail.

In the meantime I added about 50 ml of pre-boiled and cooled water to a small sanitized pot and heated it to about 120 F. I took about 50 ml of this and added it to a small sanitized measuring cup (e.g. half liter). When it cooled to about 110 F I sprinkled about 1/4 - 1/2 package of EC-1118 yeast on the surface, covered with sanitized plastic wrap, and let it sit for 15 minutes. Then I stirred the yeast and added it to the beer in the pail, and stirred it very gently.

Then I bottled the beer. Let it bottle condition at room temperature for at least two weeks. Try one (or bottle a few in PET bottles and feel for rock hardness). If not ready, leave for another week. Then store the bottles in a cool environment.

I'm very happy with the resultant amount of pressure in the bottles.

 

[user 141939]

Whats the deal with the shelf life of the d180? I've had some now since the fall and it's gonna be another month or two until I can brew this. Also noticed there is no date on the bags...

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

Using D-180 is probably the best option, but I went with dextrose so I wouldn't have to store a partly opened package of D-180. I have kegs but decided to bottle, since this is a beer you want to age, and I didn't want to tie up a keg for such a long period. This is the approach I used:

I boiled 1-1/4 cups of water in a small pot. When it came to a boil, I added 172 grams of dextrose (corn sugar) and stirred. Theoretically, this should give 2.8 volumes of CO2 @ 70 F. Let it boil for 10-15 minutes. Then cool it to room temperature and add it to a sanitized fermentation pail. Siphon the beer into the pail.

In the meantime I added about 50 ml of pre-boiled and cooled water to a small sanitized pot and heated it to about 120 F. I took about 50 ml of this and added it to a small sanitized measuring cup (e.g. half liter). When it cooled to about 110 F I sprinkled about 1/4 - 1/2 package of EC-1118 yeast on the surface, covered with sanitized plastic wrap, and let it sit for 15 minutes. Then I stirred the yeast and added it to the beer in the pail, and stirred it very gently.

Then I bottled the beer. Let it bottle condition at room temperature for at least two weeks. Try one (or bottle a few in PET bottles and feel for rock hardness). If not ready, leave for another week. Then store the bottles in a cool environment.

I'm very happy with the resultant amount of pressure in the bottles.

Thanks again for the great info Bottoms_Up! I have some yeast from the brew I siphoned off a few months ago, I was going to spend a few days getting that going with some starters to get my ~50-75B cells.

I can't wait to try this baby!

 

[slamman190]

Hey guys,
Question on the long secondary... I brewed a double batch of this back on February 14th, and am itching to get my fermentation chamber back for other brews, the pipeline is running thin!

I am thinking of brewing a couple batches on easter weekend, which would mean bottling this brew after a secondary of 4 weeks at 50f plus the two weeks in primary, so 6 weeks post brew date total.

If I bottle at that point, how much would that affect the outcome, especially since I am planning on letting it sit in bottles another 6 months before even trying it?

Thanks for the input!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Hey guys,
Question on the long secondary... I brewed a double batch of this back on February 14th, and am itching to get my fermentation chamber back for other brews, the pipeline is running thin!

I am thinking of brewing a couple batches on easter weekend, which would mean bottling this brew after a secondary of 4 weeks at 50f plus the two weeks in primary, so 6 weeks post brew date total.

If I bottle at that point, how much would that affect the outcome, especially since I am planning on letting it sit in bottles another 6 months before even trying it?

Thanks for the input!

Sure, as long as the FG is at least 1.012-1.013 you'll be in great shape. Most of the aging and flavor development occurs in the bottle.

 

[jtp137]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1427060887.437894.jpg

Finally ready to age at 50 for a month