Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[jtp137]

I have to brew something belgian in the 1.070-1.090 range for a competition in mid march, do you think i can get away with less aging if i brew a weaker/diluted version of this, like 1.070 OG?

Try brewing the 8 http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_8_clone_-_041.pdf

 

[The_Glue]

Try brewing the 8 http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/westvleteren_8_clone_-_041.pdf

Thanks!
That looks really similar to what i have come up with except i have about 50% pale and 35% pilsner malt in there. Maybe i should switch their percentages around or bump up the pilsner even more? Since i don't know the original and i will depart from it anyways maybe the grain ratios won't matter that much for me. I am not shooting for a clone yet just something good belgian like @ 1.070

 

[av8bdriver]

So just wanted to update yall on my attempt to fix my stalled Westy. Took a gravity reading this morning. Still at 1.020 . fermented pretty good for the last 4-5 days. I am at a loss. So my next step is to order fresh yeast and make a large starter and try again.

 

[Likefully]

I brewed this up last night, with quite a few variations due to lack of stock and access to supplies (went 500g vienna, 2kg pils and 5 pale, quite different hops and used golden sugar).

SG is around 1.095.

At 75 minutes I tossed the syrup boil down into the pot, by that stage I hadn't managed to get a complete boil down although it was getting very close. I started the boil down when I started the boil and wanted it to be in the pot for at least 15 minutes so it mixed in properly (hence stopping that part early).
Also, as can be expected from a 90 minute boil and a the boil down - I lost a lot of liquid. I haven't read all the comments on this thread so may have missed a similar comments.

i will let you know how it comes out

 

[ruger988]

I brewed this up last night, with quite a few variations due to lack of stock and access to supplies (went 500g vienna, 2kg pils and 5 pale, quite different hops and used golden sugar).

SG is around 1.095.

At 75 minutes I tossed the syrup boil down into the pot, by that stage I hadn't managed to get a complete boil down although it was getting very close. I started the boil down when I started the boil and wanted it to be in the pot for at least 15 minutes so it mixed in properly (hence stopping that part early).
Also, as can be expected from a 90 minute boil and a the boil down - I lost a lot of liquid. I haven't read all the comments on this thread so may have missed a similar comments.

i will let you know how it comes out

Sounds good, but doubt its going to be very comparable to the 12 with all of those changes (especially the golden sugar) What kind of SRM is your brew?

 

[Likefully]

Sounds good, but doubt its going to be very comparable to the 12 with all of those changes (especially the golden sugar) What kind of SRM is your brew?

For sure, will be quite different, but i haven't seen a recipe elsewhere with the boil down technique.

Its SRM is about 15, nice colour, but would have liked it to be a bit darker.

I pitched a very old smack pack of WYeast Abbey Ale (from 2011...) on Tuesday and there are finally signs of fermentation this morning (Friday)!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

For sure, will be quite different, but i haven't seen a recipe elsewhere with the boil down technique.

Its SRM is about 15, nice colour, but would have liked it to be a bit darker.

I pitched a very old smack pack of WYeast Abbey Ale (from 2011...) on Tuesday and there are finally signs of fermentation this morning (Friday)!

To clarify, did you pitch a single smack pack into a 19L batch at 1.095?

 

[ruger988]

To clarify, did you pitch a single smack pack into a 19L batch at 1.095?

A single VERY OLD smack pack it would seem.

 

[Likefully]

To clarify, did you pitch a single smack pack into a 19L batch at 1.095?

Yes, along with yeast nutrient...but it was only about 17L so I should be fine

I was given the smack pack in December and didn't actually see the date until after I had pitched.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Yes, along with yeast nutrient...but it was only about 17L so I should be fine

I was given the smack pack in December and didn't actually see the date until after I had pitched.

I would estimate that pitch to be optimistically 60-70 billion cells into 4.5 gallons of high gravity wort, 1.095. This pitch is at about 25% of what you would have needed to bring it down to 1.012. It is best to start this ale using a large stir-plate starter, (3.2L), to try and create the Fix cell count. Then in subsequent brews dial back the count until you find the rate that is ideal. We pitch krausen at about 560 billion per 10 gallon batch of 1.090 wort.

 

[Likefully]

I would estimate that pitch to be optimistically 60-70 billion cells into 4.5 gallons of high gravity wort, 1.095. This pitch is at about 25% of what you would have needed to bring it down to 1.012. It is best to start this ale using a large stir-plate starter, (3.2L), to try and create the Fix cell count. Then in subsequent brews dial back the count until you find the rate that is ideal. We pitch krausen at about 560 billion per 10 gallon batch of 1.090 wort.

Thanks. How much nutrient do you use?

I will let you know how it goes. The fermentation is getting stronger. I am hoping that during the the 50 odd hours between pitching and when i could see signs of fermentation the yeast procreated and got ready to make an Abbey Ale!

 

[gotbags-10]

What seems to be the best way to sparge for this beer? Batch sparge or fly? Also would you recommend a mash out ?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thanks. How much nutrient do you use?

I will let you know how it goes. The fermentation is getting stronger. I am hoping that during the the 50 odd hours between pitching and when i could see signs of fermentation the yeast procreated and got ready to make an Abbey Ale!

We use 1 cap of Servomyces.

Just a word on yeast momentum. An notable under-pitch will generally not finish this ale to target FG due to rising ABV and declining oxygen/food/nutrient levels. Unfortunately, early yeast replication will not compensate for an under-pitch. A high ABV ale requires a lot of initial yeast momentum so the initial and correct pitch rate is essential

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

What seems to be the best way to sparge for this beer? Batch sparge or fly? Also would you recommend a mash out ?

The monks use only first runnings. We have used both batch and fly sparging. Fly sparging tends to be more efficient but there is not a notable difference in the ale.

 

[Likefully]

An noteable under-pitch will generally not finish this ale to target FG due to rising ABV and declining oxygen/food/nutrient levels. Unfortunately, early yeast replication will not compensate for an under-pitch. A high ABV ale requires a lot of initial yeast momentum so the initial and correct pitch rate is essential

Thanks - so what can i do now? Or am i simply going to have a sweet beer?

Its been bubbling since friday and it looks to be slowing, a bit (wednesday), but my guess is it will keep going till Friday - I have made some 7% beers that fermented out in 3 days with not much more noticeable momentum (nice term).

BTW - I am in Africa, things work very differently here

 

[J-Pizzel]

Brewed last night, OG 1096. Placed on chamber with heat belt. Fly sparged. Looking forward to this one!

View attachment 1421879037958.jpg

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Brewed last night, OG 1096. Placed on chamber with heat belt. Fly sparged. Looking forward to this one!

The color is beautiful.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thanks - so what can i do now? Or am i simply going to have a sweet beer?

Its been bubbling since friday and it looks to be slowing, a bit (wednesday), but my guess is it will keep going till Friday - I have made some 7% beers that fermented out in 3 days with not much more noticeable momentum (nice term).

BTW - I am in Africa, things work very differently here

Waiting it out to see how far the initial pitch will bring the gravity down is a good next step. Once you're at a gravity stand-still you can create another larger stir-plate starter to finish the ale. You will need a very healthy 3000-3500ml re-pitch starter due to the hostile nature of oxygen-spent high ABV ale. However, we have recovered at least one batch using this method. It may take another 6 weeks or so but it does work.

Greetings to our brew friends in Capetown!

 

[Likefully]

Waiting it out to see how far the initial pitch will bring the gravity down is a good next step. Once you're at a gravity stand-still you can create another larger stir-plate starter to finish the ale. You will need a very healthy 3000-3500ml re-pitch starter due to the hostile nature of oxygen-spent high ABV ale. However, we have recovered at least one batch using this method. It may take another 6 weeks or so but it does work.

Ok, results are in. I use a refractometer for gravity readings (are you shaking your head again?)

So starting gravity was 1.095, brix of (just under) 23. Current Brix is 9.8. It gives me a Current Gravity of 1.004 and ABV of 11.6% .... does that sound possible given what i pitched? [I may not have hit the sparge temps, so could have had more fermentables]

I use the calculator on this site

Factoring in a margin of error on the first reading of 2 brix (temp etc), a starting brix of 21 would mean the current gravity is 1.009.

I know you have to adjust refractometer readings for different beers, but the difference is not that big.

Anyway, it won't be a clone, but it tastes pretty good! Now to cold crash which is a mission when the average temp is above 20C

Greetings to our brew friends in Capetown!

fo sho!

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Ok, results are in. I use a refractometer for gravity readings (are you shaking your head again?)

So starting gravity was 1.095, brix of (just under) 23. Current Brix is 9.8. It gives me a Current Gravity of 1.004 and ABV of 11.6% .... does that sound possible given what i pitched? [I may not have hit the sparge temps, so could have had more fermentables]

I use the calculator on this site

Factoring in a margin of error on the first reading of 2 brix (temp etc), a starting brix of 21 would mean the current gravity is 1.009.

I know you have to adjust refractometer readings for different beers, but the difference is not that big.

Anyway, it won't be a clone, but it tastes pretty good! Now to cold crash which is a mission when the average temp is above 20C



fo sho!

Yes, it does not seem possible based on the pragmatics of fermentation. To take 4.5 gallons (17L) of 1.095 wort down to 1.008 with 60-70 billion cells is contrary to known principles. If you are currently at 9.8 Brix at room temp your current gravity would be 1.0382.

 

[jtp137]

Grist/Fermentables
----------------------------------
8 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Belgian (2.0 SRM)
7 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Belgian (3.0 SRM)
3 lbs D-180 Candi Syrup (180.0 SRM)

Mash Steps
---------------
Mash at 149.0 F 90 min
Fly or batch sparge 168.0 F

Boil Steps
---------------
Boil 90 minutes
Add hops and Servomyces per schedule, (make sure and open the Servomyces cap).
Stir-in adjuncts at 10 minutes prior to flame-out, (alternatively, stir in adjuncts at flame-out)

Boil Ingredients
---------------------
1.00 oz Brewer's Gold [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Hallertau Mittelfrueh [5.00%] - Boil 30 minutes
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 Items Servomyces - Boil 5.0 mins


Yeast Ingredients
----------------------------------
320 Billion cells or 3200 ml stir-plate starter seeded with 1.0 vial Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530)
***Krausen yeast method to be added here


Clear wort boil-down notes:
-------------------
Perform a separate boil-down of 1.00 gallon of vorlaufed wort into a syrup using the following steps:
1. Extract 1.0 gallon of wort at the beginning of clear runoff into a 3-5 gallon pot.
2. Boil the wort down until it becomes a dark mahogany brown and is bubbling with large bubbles.
3. Be careful NOT to burn the maltose syrup.
4. The result will be approximately 24-26 ounces of syrup.
5. Re-crash the syrup by adding wort from the ongoing main boil.
6. Pour the dissolved liquid back in to the main boil.


Fermentation Pitch Notes:
---------------------
Chill wort to 63-64F
Oxygenate chilled wort to 8-10PPM by diffusing pure O2 via .05 micron diffuser for 90-120 seconds.
Pitch decanted yeast starter, adding chilled wort to the yeast flask to clear remaining yeast as necessary.
Ramp fermentation temp (evenly over time) from 63 - 80F over 7 days.


Fermentation Process Notes
---------------------
1/5/2012 - Primary Fermentation (7 days at 63F ending at 80.0 F)
1/23/2012 - Secondary Fermentation (3 -10 days at 78.0 F ending at 60.0 F)
1/26/2012 - Tertiary Fermentation (40 days at 50.0 F ending at 50.0 F)

Final Aged Ale
---------------------
In the end you should have a mohagany dark ale that is fragrant, malty, plummy, with a lasting medium tan head with considerable Belgian lace. Like the pic below:

When I put this in beer smith I get 45 IBUs. Seems kind of high

 

[gotbags-10]

Wondering about subbing wyeast yeast nutrient for servomyces . My LHBS has everything but that. They do have wyeast nutrients though. Much cheaper I might add.

 

[Likefully]

I have a Wyeast trappist blend smack pack. How will that go with this recipe?

[and i will make a monster starter!]

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

When I put this in beer smith I get 45 IBUs. Seems kind of high

I think Beersmith defaults to Rager. In higher gravity ales we've found it useful to use the Tinseth algorithm. Tinseth does a great job adjusting resulting IBU's in the context of variable gravity.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I have a Wyeast trappist blend smack pack. How will that go with this recipe?

[and i will make a monster starter!]

We've used WLP500, WLP540, and WLP530 on this ale. By far the Westmalle (WLP530), is ideal. The blend should work but the profile will be notably different than the import.

 

[jtp137]

I think Beersmith defaults to Rager. In higher gravity ales we've found it useful to use the Tinseth algorithm. Tinseth does a great job adjusting resulting IBU's in the context of variable gravity.

What is your boil volume and post boil volume for the recipe above?

 

[Kee]

Wondering about subbing wyeast yeast nutrient for servomyces . My LHBS has everything but that. They do have wyeast nutrients though. Much cheaper I might add.

I personally use whatever generic yeast nutrient I have and it works fine. I have no idea how much they vary.

 

[orangehero]

On the Candi Syrup Inc. website there is inconsistency in color description. Could you please clarify for better color estimation using brewing software? For example the D-180 syrup is listed as having a color of both 180 SRM and 180°L, although they are not the same thing.

180 SRM = ~133°L
180°L = 243 SRM

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

What is your boil volume and post boil volume for the recipe above?

We have 14.4-14.5 gallons at boil. 11.00 gallons post boil.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

On the Candi Syrup Inc. website there is inconsistency in color description. Could you please clarify for better color estimation using brewing software? For example the D-180 syrup is listed as having a color of both 180 SRM and 180°L, although they are not the same thing.

180 SRM = ~133°L
180 SRM = 243 SRM

True. I'll pass this along to the webmaster.