West Sixth start up brewery being sued by Magic Hat parent company over logo

[Mongrel]

Anyone ever wonder if two very wily creative marketing people in two brewing companies got together and created the controversy just for publicity?

If that was true, Magic Hat should fire their guy, but looking at both companies Facebook pages, it has worked out well for West Sixth.

My favorite posts so far have been on similarities between Magic Hat's an other products. Maybe Mountain Dew will sue them over their Cucumber Hibiscus Ale logo. Then maybe Oskar Blues can sue West Sixth for putting words around the top of the can.

 

[drainbamage]

If that was true, Magic Hat should fire their guy, but looking at both companies Facebook pages, it has worked out well for West Sixth.

My favorite posts so far have been on similarities between Magic Hat's an other products. Maybe Mountain Dew will sue them over their Cucumber Hibiscus Ale logo. Then maybe Oskar Blues can sue West Sixth for putting words around the top of the can.

Yeah, if this was some sort of collaborative viral marketing campaign or whatever, the gains seem pretty lopsided towards West Sixth. Or should I say, West Inverted-Ninth.

 

[passedpawn]

If that was true, Magic Hat should fire their guy, but looking at both companies Facebook pages, it has worked out well for West Sixth.

My favorite posts so far have been on similarities between Magic Hat's an other products. Maybe Mountain Dew will sue them over their Cucumber Hibiscus Ale logo. Then maybe Oskar Blues can sue West Sixth for putting words around the top of the can.

So would you have been talking about Magic Hat without this controversy? They were not in my mind until this came up. I think you guys don't appreciate publicity.

 

[gometz]

They want to claim that West Sixth stole their logo, but the logo for their cucumber hibiscus looks an awful lot like a certain soft drink logo.

Quite a few bars in Lexington and even up here in Cincinnati have already pulled Magic Hat from their offerings.

View attachment 123581

That sounds like the worst beer ever conceived.

 

[bovineblitz]

I don't think any of us know the real story. No matter what is posted on the Internet. I still maintain that Magic Hat's complaint is silly and pedantic. Instead of trying to make good publicity over this, they resorted to complaining about a vaguely similar looking logo. Plus, I still don't like MH stuff.

Every time something like this comes up people freak out over the big bad successful brewery screwing over the 'little guy'. There's this whole protecting your patents and brand thing that goes over everyone's heads.

 

[Stauffbier]

So would you have been talking about Magic Hat without this controversy?

I likely would not have been talking about them unless it was regarding how much I truly disliked # 9 which does come up in social circles from time to time. It was one of the only three beers I've dumped down the sink in the last two years.

 

[hops2it]

Magic who?

 

[passedpawn]

I likely would not have been talking about them unless it was regarding how much I truly disliked # 9 which does come up in social circles from time to time. It was one of the only three beers I've dumped down the sink in the last two years.

haha. I also can't stand #9, and that's the only beer I've ever had by them. But here we are, talking about Magic Hat.

 

[tyzippers]

haha. I also can't stand #9, and that's the only beer I've ever had by them. But here we are, talking about Magic Hat.

I thought we were talking about West Sixth Brewery? :cross:

I just had to! I couldn't pass it up!

 

[meltroha]

I get the trademark and protecting your brand, but that logo just isn't that close. And I've stopped drinking Magic Hat long ago because their product is inferior, had I liked it I would stop drinking it because of this though.

 

[Stauffbier]

I thought we were talking about West Sixth Brewery? :cross:

I just had to! I couldn't pass it up!

Yeah let's talk about West Sixth now!

I've only had their IPA, but I enjoyed it.

 

[invivoSaccharomyces]

Every time something like this comes up people freak out over the big bad successful brewery screwing over the 'little guy'. There's this whole protecting your patents and brand thing that goes over everyone's heads.

Except that isn't actually what's happening here.

See, as I sort-of alluded to in my other post, when someone is suing over a trademark violation, there usually has to be some sort of "lost profits" claim. Magic Hat must be able to claim that their profits have in some way been damaged by West Sixth's logo. They can't simply sue because someone else's logo looks vaguely similar.

Think of the "moron in a hurry" argument. Mountain Dew is unlikely to sue Magic Hat over their cucumber hibiscus logo, because a moron in a hurry wouldn't mistake cucumber hibiscus for mountain dew. One is a beer, and comes in bottles in the beer section of the store, and the other is a highly-recognizable soda that comes in bright green cans arranged in boxes. So despite the overt similarities in the logo design, Mountain Dew would have a losing argument in the courts, because they wouldn't be able to prove damages.

Furthermore, if Mountain Dew did try to sue Magic Hat, Magic Hat would fight back. It would be costly for both companies, and no one would win. On the other hand, if this case goes to court, West Sixth, being a small, young brewery, probably couldn't afford the legal fees. Therefore, even though Magic Hat almost certainly couldn't prove damages, that doesn't matter. Magic Hat is assuming that this won't go to court, because West Sixth is more likely to fold than to hire a decent lawyer.

 

[DSorenson]

I am embarrassed for magic hat. That is an embarrassment.

 

[BreezyBrew]

I didn't see the reason for the lawsuit until I saw this image:

 

[mtnagel]

Because those look completely different to me. I would never mistake one for the other.

 

[brewmcq]

Because those look completely different to me. I would never mistake one for the other.

I agree... They are nothing alike. Magic Hat is just being douchey.

They are vastly different colors, #9* looks a lot different than 6*, and there's all sorts of wiggly crap on the Magic Hat.

Stoopid.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Sorry, I posted the wrong pic. Here's a better one. I'm not trying to defend Magic Hat here, but all things considered, I think they look pretty similar. You and I would know the difference but people that don't really know a lot about beer could easily mistake the two... like my Mom for example.

 

[Clonefan94]

Every time something like this comes up people freak out over the big bad successful brewery screwing over the 'little guy'. There's this whole protecting your patents and brand thing that goes over everyone's heads.

I don't think it's going over everyone's heads. I think most people agree that a 6 does have similar features to a 9, but they are not the same. I honestly don't see how putting #9 in a circle constitutes being able to stop everyone from being able to put a number in a circle for their brand. Race cars did it for years. I think everyone is upset because of how dumb this lawsuit seems. They don't all of a sudden own all numbers in circles. The logos don't look to me like they even came from the same company, let alone fool me into thinking they are the same beer. The suit has no merit. What if I put a circle in a circle? A circle has similar features to both a six and a nine. If they were concerned about infringement, they should have thought of a more specific logo than a number in a circle.

 

[mtnagel]

Sorry, I posted the wrong pic. Here's a better one. I'm not trying to defend Magic Hat here, but all things considered, I think they look pretty similar. You and I would know the difference but people that don't really know a lot about beer could easily mistake the two... like my Mom for example.

We need to ask all our moms if they'd mistake the two cans

 

[Gitmoe]

I've been hearing about this issue for a few days now. I work at a LHBS and I'm a graphic designer so this story collides both my jobs. Today was the first time I've actually looked at the logos/cans and IMO, West Sixth shouldn't be taking this lightly. We've all seen BMC try to crush the little guy and sometimes they win. A small brewery like West Sixth doesn't have the power to fight a good fight against Magic Hat. Graphically, I can see the similarities. It's not just about a 6 or a 9 or a circle or a star. It's about the overall feel and image of the design. As a designer I could easily see how the West Sixth logo could've been inspired by #9. I look at other work all the time when I'm doing a design for inspiration. It's what most designers do. Normally I would avoid doing something as similar as West Sixth is to #9. Especially considering how big Magic Hat is. I don't think this is going to end well for West Sixth...

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

West 6th needs to find a better logo. Period.

I don't drink MH's products and that won't change. I won't drink W6 products because they are too darn lazy to create a logo that doesn't look somewhat like someone else's.

I'm not buying this BS of David vs Goliath. Create your own damn ORIGINAL logo, W6.

Quit cryin', grow a set, and change your logo.

MC

 

[bovineblitz]

I agree... They are nothing alike. Magic Hat is just being douchey.

They are vastly different colors, #9* looks a lot different than 6*, and there's all sorts of wiggly crap on the Magic Hat.

Stoopid.

According to the one article, distributors had reservations, not just Magic Hat.

I personally find it a bit sketchy, it's as though they knew they could get this free publicity so decided to play Magic Hat both ways.

 

[Clonefan94]

I'm just wondering though, I notice on W6s can, it says Amber Ale. If you can TM a number, why not a style then as well? The only real issue here is that a 6 does kind of look like a 9. They aren't even the same font on the can. I would buy the argument if the 6 were the same font as the 9. I would buy it if the 6 were just one style of Beer that W6 brewed. But their 6 is on every can and if the circle is to represent a compass, the 6 is in the western quadrant of that circle, makes sense to me. I am not denying they are somewhat similar, but imo, it's only the fact that a 6 looks like a 9. IMO, that's what you get for coming up with such a creative name as #9. In the same respect, if East 9th comes out with a beer and they have a similar look to W6s, well, that's what you get for making a number the main part of your logo. It's unoriginal and public domain. You can't tell me I can't put a nine on the can, it's like saying you can't use an A or a B.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

I personally find it a bit sketchy, it's as though they knew they could get this free publicity so decided to play Magic Hat both ways.

My point exactly.

MC

 

[Iceman6409]

Here is my question. Whether or not the logos look similar the suit is on because MH claims West 6th has done irreparable harm to their brand. Now I am not making a stance for either side here at all. But let's zero in on the claim - irreparable harm. Prove that to me. Where is the harm? Prove to me it effected MH business. Show me actual real numbers. Proof is what I want and to date I have seen zero from MH. Now, if MH can produce the proof that is one thing. If they cannot - well, too bad. End the suit. If you are going to call me out in the public you BETTER come with proof of your claims. Of course, and as always, just my stupid humble opinion. I look forward to what others have to say.

 

[terrapinj]

Here is my question. Whether or not the logos look similar the suit is on because MH claims West 6th has done irreparable harm to their brand. Now I am not making a stance for either side here at all. But let's zero in on the claim - irreparable harm. Prove that to me. Where is the harm? Prove to me it effected MH business. Show me actual real numbers. Proof is what I want and to date I have seen zero from MH. Now, if MH can produce the proof that is one thing. If they cannot - well, too bad. End the suit. If you are going to call me out in the public you BETTER come with proof of your claims. Of course, and as always, just my stupid humble opinion. I look forward to what others have to say.

MH didn't make the issue public and they owe us/the public no proof - if the case is frivolous the court will determine that

whether or not the public/consumers believe MH or west sixth is moot

 

[BrokenDog]

Not for nothing, but before I even read the story or saw the wording around the logo I thought it was a Magic Hat product. Is that worth a lawsuit, I don't know, but I can easily see how an uninformed consumer could be confused.

 

[Iceman6409]

In your words terrapin you are correct. However I was speaking more general I guess. What I really meant was if MH files suit then bring some iron clad proof that whatever West 6th is doing has/is causing proof positive harm to MH's business. If they don't I would be left to assume they saw some and are simply trying to squash a small and upcoming competitor by using BS tactics. Same thing happened when Budweiser, or whoever owns them now, went after Dogfish head for a closely named beer. Budweiser sent a mega army of lawyers and Dogfishhead couldn't even afford a part time lawyer at that point. Stupid. It's healthy competition. Only the strong survive but a fair fight should be applied. Hence why I will never drink another Budweiser product again, as well as I also now know they use sub par ingredients. I understand each companies point of view and each company has a right to their views and their tactics. However I also have the right to judge any situation as I deem fit for me. So all in all both situations are unwarranted in my personal point of view. If it is something small like a freakin logo similarity or a similar name the be an adult and work it out. There is no need to drag this BS through a court system. Waste of everyones time and money.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Lets not forget that a logo only has to be something like 25% different to be in the OK. So you have the font being the same. hundreds of brands use Optima (especially beauty products), but they aren't suing each other. and I've seen a big handful of religious paintings with that compass/ star. Sorry but magic hat has nothing on W6th in terms of copying them.

Whether W6th stopped contact after negotiations, it doesn't matter because their lawyer probably said they were fine, you don't need to work with them at all; because we'll win.

 

[zmanzorro]

Just out of curiosity, I wonder if other companies have trademarks on numbers. Does Dogfish Head have trademarks on 60, 90, 120 Minute? Or are those considered beer styles? Does Jack Daniels trademark the No. 7? Or is it "Jack Daniels No. 7"? I dont think you should be able to trademark just a number but I think some of this might have to do with legal precedence.