Well....I am officially a hop farmer

[Fingers]

Its been my experience growing them at home, that not all hops ripen at the same time.

Cascades came first,

That was my experience this summer too. The Cascade was first and it was the most prolific. The window was at least three weeks long.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

economies of scale, buying in bulk, etc...

I just bought a pound of Summit pellets for $15.99 from NB when they were $2.99/oz... you do the math. I don't begrudge them for that mark-up. It's the cost of additional advertising/marketing, warehousing/storing, packaging, etc that goes into it, and while I wasn't "in need" of a pound of Summit, I will find something to use it for without too much worry!

This is one of the reasons I got into home brewing. I got tired of paying for bottles, and cardboard.

The less a seller has to handle his/her goods, the lower thier costs, and the lower they can sell for. Think of a malter paying one or two people $10.00 an hour, 8 hours a day, packing 1lb bags of 2 row. If a plastic bag for 1lb of 2 row costs 18 cents, a 5lb plastic bag probably costs 20 cents. Any guesses what an 80lb paper bag costs? $1.00? Costs of those 1 and 5 lb bags can add up quick.

 

[Orangevango]

Are you really going to pay rent on a field for two years without selling any product?

Sure, your harvest will be scant the first year, but why not sell it? If you dont, its just a waste.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

Are you really going to pay rent on a field for two years without selling any product?

Sure, your harvest will be scant the first year, but why not sell it? If you dont, its just a waste.

I PLAN on not having enough to sell. Anything I get beyond my own use, becomes a bonus, and I can sell.

 

[Orangevango]

So how much are you planting the first year?

 

[NTOLERANCE]

So how much are you planting the first year?

Ive planned $350 for rhizomes. Depening on where I buy them will dictate how many I get.

We can order hop plants throught he nursery at work. I can buy them near cost. The nursery manager has ordered hops before, as her husband is a home brewer. Many of the rhizomes we can order through the nursery are ornamental, but there are some good for brewing. The 2010 order forms arent out....so I dont know what they will have yet.

Cascades are an obvious choice as they offer good yields and disease resistance. I also want Centennial, Saaz, Tet, Amarillo, Simicoe....and a few others.

 

[GVH_Dan]

I'm Dan from Gorst Valley Hops, the second grower mentioned in the article in this month's BYO. I've got to jump in here and offer some advice for NTOLERANCE to save you a lot of headache.

1. If you are going to use the metal poles, make sure you put a good coating on them to prevent rust. A simple can of outdoor furniture Rustoleum will not do it. For at least the part that goes in the ground, look into 2 part enamel products that mix together before application or ceramic based paint. You want something that will give you a hard shell. (You can find these under industrial paints at rustoleum ,Sherwin Williams, etc. They have technical specialists you can call to point you in the right direction.)

2. Start getting those poles in now. We threw in a 1.5 acre field last year and it took all summer to get the hardware up, irrigation in place, etc. If you can get that in now, you are in much better shape.

On that topic, its probably too late at this point but we usually recommend people start with an acre because of all the work. But you sound committed to 3 at this point.

3. Have a harvesting plan in place. You have a window of about 4 days from when the cones are ready until you have to pick. Figure about 1/2 hour to an hour per plant for manual picking (by an adult). So about 10 people/day/acre if they are serious. Many more if they are volunteers.

4. Yes, you can spread out the harvest time by picking different varieties and other methods but don't plan any vacations in August...you will be busy. (A word of warning for those thinking of this, the harvest always falls on the same weekend as your favorite beer festival.)

5. Drying and processing ARE NOT SIMPLE. Trust me on this one. I spent the entire months of August, September and October answering drying questions from growers all over. Heat dries things out quickly, but kills your quality, evaporates your oils and shortens your shelf life. Not drying them sufficiently results in a product that will go bad within hours. I was amazed at how many ways people managed to screw it up.

To answer someone's previous question, if you wanted an oast to dry 1,000 lbs (dry weight), which is about 1/2 acre or more production, that would take about 900 cubic feet of space. If the bed were 18" deep, that would be a space around 20' x 30'

Processing is another story on top of that. Many brewers are being accommodating and taking whole hops and even wet hops, but that won't last when production ramps up. You are going to need to pelletize if for both ease of use and storage volume. A suitable pellet mill runs $40K or more...and then you find out you have to replace many of the parts with stainless steel so it is considered food grade. So add another 3 to 5k.

6. I think when you add everything up, $4/lb is shooting a bit low. You can't and shouldn't be competing with the big boys in the Pacific Northwest on price. I"m not sure where you are located, but if you can deliver a HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT, brewers will usually pay much more than market value. If we were selling for $4/lb, we would be out of business by now. The key is keeping quality up which means good growing practices, proper drying, harvesting, packaging, testing/analysis and storage.

I've heard others talk about focusing on the homebrewing market because of the higher premium. Yes, homebrewers pay a premium but its a market that is harder to reach, has smaller demand and (as has been pointed out) is much harder to package for. Frankly, you quickly tire of measuring out 1 oz, 2oz, 5 oz, etc. pacakges and individually sealing them. It is so much quicker to weigh out 44 pounds, dump it in a bag and seal away. With 3 acres, you could have as much as 6,000 lbs of hops in a few years. Even if you find avid homebrewers that consume 5 lbs/year...that's 1,200 homebrewers. And that assumes you have exactly what they want. I can't even keep my dad happy with 8 varieties.

7. Finally, get you rhizome orders in now. If you wait until Feb to put in orders of 100 or more, you will probably be out of luck.

Good luck.

 

[The Pol]

For the record, I am not trying to be hard on you... I am just asking questions.

In my first post, I even said, I hope I am reading this wrong... and as you pointed out, I was. So, people can chillax a wee bit.

I am asking some hard questions though, as I know harvesting my own at home can certainly be a pain on a very small scale. I also know that many of my bines have (2) harvests per year... not one.

I think the drying and processing question was legit too, as the previous poster has stated... it isnt as simple as heat and a fan when you are producing for people other than yourself.

This is a huge undertaking, so I am just asking questions... questions that I would be asking if I were going to farm hops, ya know?

I personally think hard questions and critisizm are much more valuable to someone starting a bunsiness than "you are awesome, this is so cool, good luck!"

I do wish you the best, and I am glad that GVH_Dan chimed in, he may be a better resource here than the rest of us shmucks growing at home.

 

[GVH_Dan]

I personally think hard questions and critisizm are much more valuable to someone starting a bunsiness than "you are awesome, this is so cool, good luck!"

AMEN, brother Pol. Pats on the back boost confidence but don't get the work done. My first source of employment is in food processing/drying/freezing...so I figured these hops would be just another product. Nope. They are way different then nearly every other ag product I've worked on.

I do wish you the best, and I am glad that GVH_Dan chimed in, he may be a better resource here than the rest of us shmucks growing at home.

Don't underestimate the combined knowledge of the HomeBrewTalk throbbing brain. I started on this forum because a friend asked me to chime in on a question someone had. But I stuck around because of the questions, comments and thoughts you all come up with. You guys can spend hours studying a handful of plants and working out "innovative" ways to process them. You all come up with the hard questions that make me think and help improve the equipment we are developing.

Heck, the only other place I get this many ideas is from the...uhm...the guys that grow hops' "cousin" plant. I guess when you are stoned, you have more innovative thoughts than those of us that stick to beer.

 

[samc]

The Pols questions were softballs IMO. GVH Dan pointed out some of the realities of the exact business you are looking to get into. I saw the $4 a pound selling price and almost fell out of my chair. I have one year of poor hop growing experience and 30+ years of accounting and business experience and without a detailed business plan and cost analysis you are going to be facing some stark realities.

You might want to get together with a good accountant or http://www.score.org/index.html which is a great resource.

Having a successful profitable business is a joy, having a money loser is a life changing event. I've done both.

 

[Orangevango]

Out of curiosity, why sunbeam? Ive never heard of them being used in beer.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

I'm Dan from Gorst Valley Hops, the second grower mentioned in the article in this month's BYO. I've got to jump in here and offer some advice for NTOLERANCE to save you a lot of headache.

1. If you are going to use the metal poles, make sure you put a good coating on them to prevent rust. A simple can of outdoor furniture Rustoleum will not do it. For at least the part that goes in the ground, look into 2 part enamel products that mix together before application or ceramic based paint. You want something that will give you a hard shell. (You can find these under industrial paints at rustoleum ,Sherwin Williams, etc. They have technical specialists you can call to point you in the right direction.)

2. Start getting those poles in now. We threw in a 1.5 acre field last year and it took all summer to get the hardware up, irrigation in place, etc. If you can get that in now, you are in much better shape.

On that topic, its probably too late at this point but we usually recommend people start with an acre because of all the work. But you sound committed to 3 at this point.

3. Have a harvesting plan in place. You have a window of about 4 days from when the cones are ready until you have to pick. Figure about 1/2 hour to an hour per plant for manual picking (by an adult). So about 10 people/day/acre if they are serious. Many more if they are volunteers.

4. Yes, you can spread out the harvest time by picking different varieties and other methods but don't plan any vacations in August...you will be busy. (A word of warning for those thinking of this, the harvest always falls on the same weekend as your favorite beer festival.)

5. Drying and processing ARE NOT SIMPLE. Trust me on this one. I spent the entire months of August, September and October answering drying questions from growers all over. Heat dries things out quickly, but kills your quality, evaporates your oils and shortens your shelf life. Not drying them sufficiently results in a product that will go bad within hours. I was amazed at how many ways people managed to screw it up.

To answer someone's previous question, if you wanted an oast to dry 1,000 lbs (dry weight), which is about 1/2 acre or more production, that would take about 900 cubic feet of space. If the bed were 18" deep, that would be a space around 20' x 30'

Processing is another story on top of that. Many brewers are being accommodating and taking whole hops and even wet hops, but that won't last when production ramps up. You are going to need to pelletize if for both ease of use and storage volume. A suitable pellet mill runs $40K or more...and then you find out you have to replace many of the parts with stainless steel so it is considered food grade. So add another 3 to 5k.

6. I think when you add everything up, $4/lb is shooting a bit low. You can't and shouldn't be competing with the big boys in the Pacific Northwest on price. I"m not sure where you are located, but if you can deliver a HIGH QUALITY PRODUCT, brewers will usually pay much more than market value. If we were selling for $4/lb, we would be out of business by now. The key is keeping quality up which means good growing practices, proper drying, harvesting, packaging, testing/analysis and storage.

I've heard others talk about focusing on the homebrewing market because of the higher premium. Yes, homebrewers pay a premium but its a market that is harder to reach, has smaller demand and (as has been pointed out) is much harder to package for. Frankly, you quickly tire of measuring out 1 oz, 2oz, 5 oz, etc. pacakges and individually sealing them. It is so much quicker to weigh out 44 pounds, dump it in a bag and seal away. With 3 acres, you could have as much as 6,000 lbs of hops in a few years. Even if you find avid homebrewers that consume 5 lbs/year...that's 1,200 homebrewers. And that assumes you have exactly what they want. I can't even keep my dad happy with 8 varieties.

7. Finally, get you rhizome orders in now. If you wait until Feb to put in orders of 100 or more, you will probably be out of luck.

Good luck.

All good info Dan. Many of the items youve touched on I have thought about, but its great to hear from an experienced grower. I doubt I will get the entire field up and planted with hops the first year. I dont think I can buy enough hops. Small steps so to speak. What doesnt have hops will have other crops

 

[GVH_Dan]

Yeah, $350 will get you anywhere from 100 to 400 rhizomes, which isn't a full acre. If you find prices cheaper than $1 per rhizome, be wary. We've been burned on those. There's a reason they are so cheap.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

Yeah, $350 will get you anywhere from 100 to 400 rhizomes, which isn't a full acre. If you find prices cheaper than $1 per rhizome, be wary. We've been burned on those. There's a reason they are so cheap.

At first I wasnt sure I wanted rhizomes. Jungs Seeds near me sells plants....cadcade, nugget, willamette and one more... I forget, goldings maybe? I talked to them about a 50 plant buy, and they seemed willing to deal on the price ($8.95 retail)..but even at $5.00 a plant, they are still $2.00 more than a rhizome. If I can get a cold frame up, I will definetly buy the rhizomes.

 

[GVH_Dan]

Forgive me, I'm the engineer in our group. I'm not a botanist/horticulturalist/plant guy. But I take it a cold frame is some sort of green house? Are you trying to get the plant started early? I have to ask why.

I'm assuming you're in Wisconsin or at least the upper midwest. If you put rhizomes in the ground in the early spring, there will be plenty of time to develop a decent root system before the fall. Heck, some varieties (like cascade), will even give you a decent harvest. I doubt that starting with small plants will get you that much of a head start. (But then again, I'm not the guy with the green thumb...just the guy behind the tiller.)

If you buy good rhizomes, when they arrive they will all ready have a couple of little buds sprouting out. Once they warm up, Bam! they will be off to the races.

It just seems to me that at $5, you get about 70 plants. That's not even an 1/8 acre. And trust me, if you put in orders now for bulk orders of rhizomes, you can do better than $3/rhizome. PM me if you need help finding them.

As Pol said, my intention isn't to sound mean. I'm honestly just trying to help. We've put on a number of full day workshops on hops growing with attendance from 75 to 150 people. When they walk out, 90% are absolutely convinced that this is not for them. Of the remaining 10% that are interested, usually 1 or 2 finally move forward to put rhizomes in the ground.

There's a lot of research to do. If you don't plan for all these things you find yourself standing in a field wondering where you can find more water for irrigation, sleeping all night next to your oast praying for dry weather, kicking your pelletizer because you didn't factor in how sticky the oils are...oh yeah, and trying to convince your SWMBO that "NEXT year, I"ll bring home a paycheck. We just needed to pick up a slightly larger pelletizer this year."

Oh...and my current favorite, try explaining it to your home owner's association why you have constructed a 12 foot tall tube that inadvertently blew about 100 pounds of hops all over three neighbor's freshly raked lawns. Obviously they were not home brewers because they all complained.

 

[Andrea]

At first I wasnt sure I wanted rhizomes. Jungs Seeds near me sells plants....cadcade, nugget, willamette and one more... I forget, goldings maybe? I talked to them about a 50 plant buy, and they seemed willing to deal on the price ($8.95 retail)..but even at $5.00 a plant, they are still $2.00 more than a rhizome. If I can get a cold frame up, I will definetly buy the rhizomes.

You don't want seeds because they are several years behind in production. You also don't want to buy plants from a nursery. They propogate from the bines and while this is a quick way to get alot of plants-- these prop plants are also a couple years behind from producing.

Buying seeds is like buying a baby and bine propogated plants is like buying children. You want breeding adult females-- rhizomes ready to go.

Best of all-- buy from a farmer who can tell you how well the hops do in your area. Sunbeam and saaz out here in Colorado barely cleared the soil before they died in a light frost. Cascade and Chinook are blooming giants. Eh so so on Willamette and Mt Hood. Work out the water first! Success is the right amount of water at the right time
Check out www.sanjuanhopfarms.com for info on harvesting-- have the brewers come pick fresh hops. Works for us

 

[RhodyRed]

I have to agree with Dan here. Our first year we started some of our rhizomes in a cold greenhouse, then put them in a cold frame, then put them in the ground. Not only was it a huge pain, the rhizomes that we bought and put straight in the ground outperformed the rhizomes we started in the cold frame. I think we ended up babying them too much and shocked them when they finally got in the ground.

On that same point, save the extra couple bucks and buy rhizomes. You'll be surprised how quick they'll grow. Like Dan said, you're going to need a lot of plants to fill 3 acres - $2 per plant of savings will go a long way.

 

[The Pol]

Yeah, buy some fat rhizomes from mature plants, that will save years.

 

[RhodyRed]

Hey Dan, I tried to send you a PM but it said your mailbox was full.

Sorry for the off-topic post everyone.

 

[NTOLERANCE]

The reason I had thought about the cold frame was due to Wisconsins unpredictable weather.

I have had to wear a coat in June and gotten sun burn in Feburary.

WIll hops survive a late frost? I will have a cold frame up anyway for some of my other crops.

 

[GVH_Dan]

As the saying goes, "If you don't like the weather, don't worry. It'll be different tomorrow."

We didn't have any/much loss to frost, but we planted on a hill so there would be good drainage and make certain there was plenty of sun. What little frost there was, didn't seem to do any damage.

Also, if an early shoot does die for any reason (frost, wild animal, small child picking it), a healthy rhizome will have plenty of energy to shoot up another one. It just pushes your harvest back a week or two.

I seriously wouldn't put yourself of the rhizome through the stress.

 

[Orangevango]

The rhizome survives the whole winter, year after year, so I doubt a late frost will keep it from pushing up a new bine when it warms up.

 

[CoalBrew]

Where are you growing YOUR hop yard sourgrapes... I mean orangevango??

 

[Crazytwoknobs]

Heck, for organic hops, I'd pay more than $15 a lb.

Right? Wouldn't I?

 

[JMOSBAUG]

hey guys,

just read this post and I thought I would mention that I have a degree in agribusiness management from Purdue university, (with lots of contacts) i may be able to help with the "farming" process. My old man also is an agriculture teacher at a local high school and has a very large greenhouse. He is a pretty big beer fan so I am sure I could convice him to help me create some starter rhizomes that have been well taken care of.

bottom line is, i have been lurking in these forums for quite a while and I think this may be one of the places I can add some value.

If you would like me to check on some things, please... pm me.

I would gladly trade some horticulture experience for some all grain brewing tips

merry christmas everyone!!!

 

[Andrea]

I forgot to add the best online source is the Small Scale Hops Manual from Crannoq Ales http://www.crannogales.com/farm.html
with an update for cost of putting in an acre of hops Good info

Also on Dr. Ron's page from Colorado State University you can access the Hops Workshop presentation. Great info from dirt to glass
http://soilcrop.colostate.edu/godin/index.html
And More info on growing and production also from CSU:
http://www.specialtycrops.colostate.edu/scp_exp_demo/hops.htm

Hehehe... add value
And a value added Solstice to all. Spring will come!
<A>

 

[CoalBrew]

You make a dryer.

Should only cost about 500-600 bucks.

I mean. A space heater, 8 sheets of plywood, 8 sheets of foam insulation a fan, a digital temp controller, and some wire-mesh bottomed shelves... voila.

what about drying at cooler temps???? Ive heard the cooler the drying temp, the more oils / acids are kept viable...??? just a question?

 

[GVH_Dan]

Yep, cooler is better but sometimes you have to do something to drop the relative humidity. That either means dehumidification or adding heat. Just keep it under 100F if possible.

 

[Orangevango]

Cooler is better, but as Dan said, you have got to drop relative humidity to allow the air to pick up moisture from the hops. The drier plan I outlined would be able to function at whatever temperature you wanted it to, the space heater would only be on when the temperature was below desired levels.

 

[TrailerTrashBrewer]

I am going to plant some rhyzomes this year in my garden also 35' x 25' and let them grow up the 6' fence.

As far the drying process whats the best?

If just lowering the humidity is the key then a sani dry dehumidifier could work well. It is powerful enough to keep 3000 sq ft area down to 20% humidity easy. And it has a powerful fan which can be directed to blow directly over the cones with just a little ducting..

Good luck on your hop farm,
Just read an article in a Lodi Paper about Hop farms they are looking for people who want to go into the business. $10,000 to get in.