After a month of anxious waiting I decided to sample my first brew after a long vacation from brewing...........and it was infected! That was one of the reasons I quit brewing after a couple of all grain kegging incidents, but this is the first bottled beer, and extract to boot, I have had do this. Over carbonated, astringent and medicinal is how I would describe it. Tried another bottle just to be sure and it also was spoiled. Very disappointed and a tad depressed following the failure. Sigh......
Welcome back to me :(
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would you post some details about the brew? What was the brew,how long did it ferment,how long was it in bottles?
thedude00
Well-Known Member
Don't give up on brewing bro. What do you us for sanitation. 90% of infected beer are just bad sanitation. I would use starsan and just take your time with this step.
BrewingRugger
Well-Known Member
Don't give up!!!! You have to push forward and brew again and again, just make sure you do a good job of cleaning and sanitize very well!!! I have a friend who refused to brew another batch for a year because of an infected batch and now he back in love with brewing, after a little pushing. He had a good batch recently.
I almost quit brewing after 2 ruined batches. I got really bummed. But then I decided to take it as a challenge and put every step of process & each piece of equipment under a microscope to analyze the problem. Taught me a lot about brewing.
That said, are you sure your ferm temps weren't too high? That could give you those flavors and is easy to fix!
That said, are you sure your ferm temps weren't too high? That could give you those flavors and is easy to fix!
Thanks for the comments fellows. I won't give up, but with my former troubles it was not a good way to return to brewing. On the bright side it was a crap brew just to get started, but I am still bummed.
Bear-to answer your question here is what I did. I wanted to ease back into things and got a can of Montmellick hopped LME and used half of it in a mix with a half pound of DME and a quarter pound of corn sugar in a 2.5 gallon batch. (well the equivalent thereof, 3/4's cup of pure maple syrup) I boiled it for 15 minutes and tossed in a half ounce of Fuggles the last five. Put a lid on it and chilled the pot in an ice bath. I had an old Mr. Beer fermenter from my first brew long ago. I got it set up, filled with water and a tablespoon of Idaphor. I tossed in the seal, fermentation lock, etc and let it sit for an hour. Ran the fluid through the spigot several times. Poured some in the top of the lid when I emptied it and put in the rubber seal.
Dumped it out, poured in wort at about 72 and [first ? in my mind] topped it off with tap water and Cooper's dry yeast. Put on lid and let it sit and after fifteen minutes transported it upstairs to the guest bath tub (yeah you guys no why
) where it fermented at about 68F for a week. Bottled it in bottles which had twice been through the rinse and heated dry cycle in the dishwasher after adding a half cup of corn sugar boiled in water and lightly agitated. Used the Mr. Beer spigot to fill bottles. Left to carbonate a week and moved to garage. 10 days later it tastes like horse pee. There ya have it.Questions I have are: the rubber seal for the Mr. Beer lid had been sitting a LONG time, and I did not remove the spigot to sterilize the parts. Other than that your guess is as good as mine.
WhiteEagle1
Well-Known Member
Dude....You didn't let it ferment long enough or let it bottle condition long enough. 3 weeks in the fermentor.....3 weeks in the bottle.
Bud (old folks version of dude) I know the current trend is to do that, but back 15 years ago when I was brewing a lot (and winning medals) I never left beer on the yeast more than a week, maybe 10 days once, and I realize this needs more time in the bottle to fully condition, but I never had anything taste like this which wasn't infected.
I was always of the understanding that you shouldn't boil pre-hopped LME, that you should instead boil the water to sanitize, so maybe that has something to do with it. Also, how fresh was the LME? I know the few times I used older LME, my beer had a very astringent taste, so I only use DME now.
Could it have been fermented too warm? Your description sounds like a batch I did where it fermented around 80° and it turned into astringent medicine. 3 months aged it is drinkable. I expect it to be damn good @ 6 months.
Also is your water source using chloramine or chlorine?
Also is your water source using chloramine or chlorine?
You should REALLY find out if you have either of these in your water. From the description you give, I suspect this more than anything.
You may not even be able to taste it in the water, but it can show up after fermentation as medicinal or plasticy.
Our water is chlorinated, but I have brewed good beer with it before obviously? Options?
Did you take gravity readings to make sure that it was done fermenting? It is quite possible that it wasn't done after a week. That could be the cause of your over carbonation.
I used to have a similar issue with horribly crappy medicine flavor. I haven't had that problem since I stopped fermenting in buckets with spigots and by getting a bottling wand that I can disassemble to clean. My first one was from a kit and was glued together. I have made good beer while fermenting in a bucket with a spigot but you need to clean it thoroughly (soak in a bleach or oxy-clean solution) before and after EVERY time that you use it.
Two options for Chlorinated water:
1) Boil Water to force it out
2) add 1/4 Campden Tablet, crushed and mixed with a bit of water added to 5 gallons.
You can also leave the water out for a while. I don't remember how long.
Also, this is for Chlorine. For Chloramine, which is less volatile, boiling and leaving out is not effective. In that case, Campden Tablets are an easier method. It's also practically instantaneous, from what I've read.
So, in effect, adding Campden tabs is possibly the easiest and most effective solution.
You might want to try using store bought water for a batch and see what happens.
OK on the Campden. I actually did jug water for the Scottish 80/- in primary now, so we shall see. Thenks, btw.
OK, got back after it today. Had two pounds of extract left and used a little chocolate and 60L crystal to turn out 2.5 gallons of English Mild and put the stuff back in that same fermenter after totally disassembling it and sanitizing with StarSan. Including using a toothbrush to clean the threads on the spigot, etc. Guess we will see If I can get'er done or not. I also followed advice and used bottled water.
"...Over carbonated, astringent and medicinal..."
A couple of weeks total is not enough time for a nasty infection to present itself.
It is however enough time for a beer that was bottled with excessive residual sugars to over carbonate.
1/2 cup of priming sugar is also too much for a 2.5 gallon batch. Bottling too soon and too much priming sugar gave you a fizzer with huge carbonic bite...that's the astringency you taste.
A couple of weeks total is not enough time for a nasty infection to present itself.
It is however enough time for a beer that was bottled with excessive residual sugars to over carbonate.
1/2 cup of priming sugar is also too much for a 2.5 gallon batch. Bottling too soon and too much priming sugar gave you a fizzer with huge carbonic bite...that's the astringency you taste.
SittingDuck
Well-Known Member
My thought exactly. Even just the half cup used to prime is pretty high for a 2.5 gallon batch. Add in the potential for unfinished fermentation and you have a real problem. That explains being overcarbed, and overcarbed explains the astringency, especially if it was not in the fridge for several days (even proper carbonation tastes astringent if it doesn't have adequate time to disolve.)
SittingDuck
Well-Known Member
That said, go ahead and do these sanitizing suggestions anyway, especially with the spigot. I doubt it is your issue, but it sure won't hurt.
Well truth be known, I carbonated with 3/4's cup of maple syrup (don't ask why, just cuz) which I thought would be right as the recipe called for a cup and a half with a five gallon brew. Do you think further aging will have a moderating effect on the astringency, or is it a permanent taste issue? Guess I can chill them almost to the point of freezing and see if it helps.
Further aging would have allowed all of the fermentable sugars to convert
leaving only the priming sugar (syrup) to carbonate. Once you have that astringent carbonic bite, that will not go away. You can knock out some CO2 through an aggressive pour and allowing the beer to settle before drinking, but the taste will still be there.
Next time, give your primary a minimum of 2 weeks before packaging under pressure.
Next time, give your primary a minimum of 2 weeks before packaging under pressure.
FirstStateBrewer
Well-Known Member
All the points mentioned may be a factor. Especially the type & amount of priming sugar. I also would suggest eliminating corn sugar (except for bottling) and switch to liquid yeast. The Cooper's dry yeast could be adding a diacetyl flavor on top of everything else. If you are serious about brewing better beer, stick with White Labs or Wyeast.
I wouldn't necessarily call allowing a beer ample time to finish fermenting sugars from the wort and to condition a "trend".
Not wanting to start a pissing war here so let's just say its an adjustment to when I brewed before. I looked through all my old brewing notes and records, emails, etc., and found very few (well none, but I am sure there were some originally) instances where beer was left on the yeast like it is now. Now we did routinely rack to secondary, so that is also different. Dean Larson and I were discussing a brew and he left the beer in primary 10 days and that is the longest instance I could find (1997). Just saying brewing has changed some since then.
Afraid this was absolutely correct. I waited long enough for anything good to happen if it was going to, and it did not improve. I am dumping today and moving on. Life is too short to drink really, really bad beer just because I made it. Next case.
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